I'm sure you think that it's in-crowd although it's actually a really popular series now and lots of other games from major developers are now taking cues from the way it was designed. If I had to guess, I'd say you've probably never even played it but I'm sure you have a strong opinion about it anyway.
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I'm sure you think that it's in-crowd although it's actually a really popular series now and lots of other games from major developers are now taking cues from the way it was designed. If I had to guess, I'd say you've probably never even played it but I'm sure you have a strong opinion about it anyway.
HamburgerBoy
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It is the way in which people praise the game and the hivemind that exists around it. I've wanted to try it but then I go on YouTube and see shittons of kiting and some hydra thing that takes 10 solid minutes of combat to defeat and "omg what a tragic backstory" that turns me off. One day I'll play one of them so that I can say with authority that it's a bad game. Until then, I'll just say that it's in-crowd.
I'm not sure why you're watching videos of anyone taking 10 minutes to beat any enemy in the game, since none of them take that long if you actually play properly. I wouldn't base my opinions on games off of people who don't even know how to play them well.
Personally, I think that all of the games in the series have flaws, but they also do a lot of things extremely right. From my experience, most people who criticize the games excessively haven't even bothered to learn the basics and generally refuse to learn games that don't hold your hand all the time.
The strongpoint of the series is the way that it rewards thoughtful gameplay and exploration, rather than relying on checkpoints and expecting to be able to blitz every enemy.
Personally, I think that all of the games in the series have flaws, but they also do a lot of things extremely right. From my experience, most people who criticize the games excessively haven't even bothered to learn the basics and generally refuse to learn games that don't hold your hand all the time.
The strongpoint of the series is the way that it rewards thoughtful gameplay and exploration, rather than relying on checkpoints and expecting to be able to blitz every enemy.
HamburgerBoy
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You can play it a lot of different ways depending on how you build your character. Wise gameplay does not involve anything that takes 10 minutes to kill an optional hydra mini-boss, especially since you can kill it easily even at level 1 if you know how to fight it and avoid its attacks.
Actually, one of the best things about the game letting you build your character how you want is that you don't have to level up unless you want to, so it's fun to see how far your skills can take you at level 1. The level 1 character can't use the bow, so you won't be trying to cowardly cheese the hydra with arrows either. You'd have to fight it up close.
Actually, one of the best things about the game letting you build your character how you want is that you don't have to level up unless you want to, so it's fun to see how far your skills can take you at level 1. The level 1 character can't use the bow, so you won't be trying to cowardly cheese the hydra with arrows either. You'd have to fight it up close.
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Something in My Eye
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It also punishes exploration. I remember getting to the Tomb of the Giants way too early and getting rekt.
I always try to go down there right away to get the Skull Lantern when I'm level 1, since you can trade it for a Ring of Fog at the Undead Asylum. That ring is great for low level exploration of areas with tough enemies in them. The game really only punishes you if you can't handle the places that you decide to go.
Phylactery
Active Member
As Omni said, this place is doable at any level. Anywhere in the game is. However, through exploration you’ll discover the “path of least resistance” if you will. Which I think rewards exploration and not the other way round. It doesn’t have a big sign telling you where to go or a path laid out for you. You discover the “easiest” path yourself where enemies are generally weaker if you need to. However, it’s not a necessity at all as all areas are beatable no matter your level.
I also think that not having access to a map is one of the best things about the game. I could draw a map of the Dark Souls world from memory (including shortcuts) despite not playing it in two years because not having an ingame map forces you to commit the environment to memory.
HamburgerBoy
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I'm checking that hydra fight on YouTube again and all the videos seem to be at least several minutes long, aside from one where a guy apparently finds an exploit that allows him to stand almost perfectly still and just wack their necks as they come to him.
Just by looking, there's plenty that are 3-4 minutes long where part of the video is them walking to the enemy and fighting other enemies on the way. That's a lot less than 10 minutes. Besides, it's a completely optional enemy and not a significant part of the game at all.
HamburgerBoy
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There's no saving mid-combat, right? Time required to reach a boss is absolutely billable boss fight minutes if a boss takes more than a single try to defeat. There's one video that's 3.5 minutes but the whole thing is at double speed, and another that's the same length but the second half is triple speed. The fastest I see is about 6 minutes (and that excludes the aforementioned pre-boss enemies).
The hydra isn't a boss and the nearest bonfire (checkpoint) is less than a minute from where it is if you aren't slow or dumb.
Phylactery
Active Member
@Vegard Pompey
I’ve seen you talk about your love of Morrowind a lot. I’ve owned it forever on Steam but I’ve never really played it. The fact it isn’t compatible with an Xbox controller is my biggest hurdle as I don’t like playing these sorts of games with a mouse and keyboard.
I’ve played Skyrim the most out of all Elder Scrolls games and really enjoy it. Mostly for the exploration and environments. However, I find the combat is extremely tedious and lacking in depth - it’s hard to explain why I dislike it so much, but needless to say, games like Dark Souls make the clunkiness/sluggishness of it even more apparent. I know combat isn’t a focus of these games, but Skyrim’s is pretty much completely garbage!
Anyway, tell me what you love so much about Morrowind and why I should play it.
I’ve seen you talk about your love of Morrowind a lot. I’ve owned it forever on Steam but I’ve never really played it. The fact it isn’t compatible with an Xbox controller is my biggest hurdle as I don’t like playing these sorts of games with a mouse and keyboard.
I’ve played Skyrim the most out of all Elder Scrolls games and really enjoy it. Mostly for the exploration and environments. However, I find the combat is extremely tedious and lacking in depth - it’s hard to explain why I dislike it so much, but needless to say, games like Dark Souls make the clunkiness/sluggishness of it even more apparent. I know combat isn’t a focus of these games, but Skyrim’s is pretty much completely garbage!
Anyway, tell me what you love so much about Morrowind and why I should play it.
Vegard Pompey
ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU
Don't have time right now but I'll definitely get back to you on why you should play Morrowind.
Vegard Pompey
ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU
Nvm I'll just tell you now.
In a nutshell Morrowind is more of a place than a game. You know how Skyrim is basically a theme park that keeps throwing carefully curated adventures at you, that usually involve a bit of easily digestible lore and then a standard dungeon crawl with a boss fight at the end? Morrowind is the opposite of that. It throws you into this gameworld where both the game and the world are equally confusing and leaves you to find your own way with no regard for accessibility. Morrowind's setting is one of the most strange and immersive I've encountered in all of fiction, and anytime I read a truly excellent fantasy novel I'm reminded of it. It takes place on a volcanic island that is also this melting pot of a bazillion different cultures and religions. There is political, religious and racial tension in all directions.
The combat is even worse than Skyrim's, but it's also even more out of focus than in Skyrim. This is a little embarrassing to admit but when I played the game as a teenager I used to avoid going into dungeons because the enemies terrified me - I found those abominable polygon clusters terrifying in a Harryhausen-skeleton kinda way (and still do, though I got over it.) So I found out just how much there is to do in that game without ever going into dungeons. I think of it as a game in which you play as a tourist, as a scholar, or as an anthropologist. The main quest in large part revolves around collecting books and interviewing people in order to understand the political and religious situation of Morrowind and your role in it as the subject of a prophecy that you seem to fulfill.
It's dated and inaccessible in a lot of ways but when you really get into it there's nothing quite so transporting and it's hard to imagine anything remotely like it being made ever again.
Phylactery
Active Member
What do you think about the expansion areas? I remember reading that they're even more bizarre/alien.
Vegard Pompey
ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU
Honestly I've never really gotten into the expansions. The problem I've had is that they're intended for high-level characters (and Tribunal's story only really makes sense if you've beaten the main game) and I have a hard time reaching a high level in Morrowind without accidentally breaking the game and becoming boringly powerful. I would like to do at least Bloodmoon sometime because I've heard it's really good, but nothing I've heard about the expansions suggests that they're any stranger than the main game.
To continue on from my previous post, there are a lot of interesting ways in which the strangeness of the setting and the inaccessibility of the game mechanics intersect. A popular example is that House Telvanni wizards live in towers without stairs, because it's assumed that anyone with any business there should know how to levitate! Characters will often give you directions that are vague or even sometimes wrong, which might be a design error but it certainly adds to the realism of the game. And then there's fast travel - there are several different methods of fast travel, with different mechanics and destinations: Silt striders, boats, Mages Guild guides, Divine/Almsivi Intervention spells/scrolls, propylon chambers and mark/recall spells - none of these options can take you everywhere you want to go by itself, so you have to learn to use some/all of them. It might seem a mundane thing to bring up, but I think it highlights how you have to learn the world in a way you never have to learn Skyrim.
To continue on from my previous post, there are a lot of interesting ways in which the strangeness of the setting and the inaccessibility of the game mechanics intersect. A popular example is that House Telvanni wizards live in towers without stairs, because it's assumed that anyone with any business there should know how to levitate! Characters will often give you directions that are vague or even sometimes wrong, which might be a design error but it certainly adds to the realism of the game. And then there's fast travel - there are several different methods of fast travel, with different mechanics and destinations: Silt striders, boats, Mages Guild guides, Divine/Almsivi Intervention spells/scrolls, propylon chambers and mark/recall spells - none of these options can take you everywhere you want to go by itself, so you have to learn to use some/all of them. It might seem a mundane thing to bring up, but I think it highlights how you have to learn the world in a way you never have to learn Skyrim.
Vegard Pompey
ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU
Phylactery
Active Member
Thanks for this. You've definitely piqued my interest - the biggest barrier now is learning to play it with a mouse and keyboard instead of a controller! Unlike you, I find Skyrim's world to be really quite immersive - it's fucking gorgeous. One of my favourite questlines in that game was the mage stuff at the College of Winterhold. I really enjoyed being a student and going out on those excavations and shit. I tried to play the game as a magic caster, but tbh, it was even fucking worse than the melee combat iirc. I similarly enjoyed the questline to become a vampire lord.
I don't think I even completed the main quest. I preferred going round and doing side quests and just just generally doing whatever the fuck I wanted.
I don't think I even completed the main quest. I preferred going round and doing side quests and just just generally doing whatever the fuck I wanted.
