Good job christians in Oklahoma. =(

[SocialNumb]

Ok to get this understood. (I hope)

12 year old girl living in Oklahoma is raped by dad and ends up pregnant.
12 year old girl is suffering from just being raped, dad goes to jail and possibly even the mother.

Now what you have is a 12 year old that's pregnant and who has no parents.
She decides she doesn't want to have her fathers kid and can't afford it anyway.

With this law. She walks in and the doctor shoves an instrument up her to do the ultrasound, even though this can be done another less intrusive way. Doctor shows soon to aborted cell cluster or fetus depending how long. Patient has option to look away.
Then doctor shoves another instrument to get the abortion rolling.

Evangelical Christian says: "That's what you get for being raped and deciding to get an abortion you filthy sinner"

12 year old girl is traumatized from rape.
12 year old girl is medically raped.
12 year old feels guilty for being raped and now has to carry the guilt of being medically raped as well as having to live with the abortion.

Yup, nothing can go wrong. Pro Life forever!

 

[STINNETT]

that's sucks...and that too is wrong. but unfortunately there's people who just get blinded by "religion".

I know, because religion has a tendency to blind people. That's why I dislike it so much.

Every person has his own definition of "being Christian". That's not a good thing. If Christianity were clearly defined and not so susceptible to malicious and inhumane interpretations, I would not have such a problem with it. For some people, it makes them want to give food to the homeless, for others, it makes them want to bomb abortion clinics and make everyone who thinks differently suffer. I couldn't imagine defending something that so easily and so often leads to such heinous bullshit.

 

[_Brutalism_]

Yup, nothing can go wrong. Pro Life forever!

If this comment is sarcastic, sorry but I don't see a universal correlation between being Pro-life and Pro-torturous methods for performing an abortion.

 

[Aaron Smith]

I seriously don't understand this crap about supposedly a woman chooses abortion because it's in the best interest of the kid, because otherwise the kid might be brought into a less than ideal living situation, so therefore it's ultimately more kind to just deprive the kid of life in the first place. That is absolutely insane and backwards. Abortion is 100% about choosing yourself over the needs of the baby... I don't care if I get flamed on here for saying so, because it's not like I see eye to eye with many people on these boards anyway. If a woman was truly more concerned about the needs of the unborn child than she was about her own situation, then there is NO WAY that she would come to the conclusion that the best way to meet the needs of the child is to simply eliminate the child. Come on! Are you people serious!?

 

[_Brutalism_]

I seriously don't understand this crap about supposedly a woman chooses abortion because it's in the best interest of the kid, because otherwise the kid might be brought into a less than ideal living situation, so therefore it's ultimately more kind to just deprive the kid of life in the first place. That is absolutely insane and backwards. Abortion is 100% about choosing yourself over the needs of the baby... I don't care if I get flamed on here for saying so, because it's not like I see eye to eye with many people on these boards anyway. If a woman was truly more concerned about the needs of the unborn child than she was about her own situation, then there is NO WAY that she would come to the conclusion that the best way to meet the needs of the child is to simply eliminate the child. Come on! Are you people serious!?

Agree completely.

 

[raybrochill]

I seriously don't understand this crap about supposedly a woman chooses abortion because it's in the best interest of the kid, because otherwise the kid might be brought into a less than ideal living situation, so therefore it's ultimately more kind to just deprive the kid of life in the first place. That is absolutely insane and backwards. Abortion is 100% about choosing yourself over the needs of the baby... I don't care if I get flamed on here for saying so, because it's not like I see eye to eye with many people on these boards anyway. If a woman was truly more concerned about the needs of the unborn child than she was about her own situation, then there is NO WAY that she would come to the conclusion that the best way to meet the needs of the child is to simply eliminate the child. Come on! Are you people serious!?

Fantastic point.. one I can't believe I didn't bring up sooner

 

[~BURNY~]

Life is overrated.

 

[Aaron Smith]

Life is overrated.

Right, and the majority of people on planet earth feel that way about their own lives too, so let's just make the executive decision on behalf of the unborn child, that his life will amount to nothing, and ultimately he would have been glad that we took his life for him. We are so compassionate!

 

[shred101]

I cant find any valid point in that post. Maybe you can clarify it. But go watch that bill hicks video before you do...

 

[~BURNY~]

Right, and the majority of people on planet earth feel that way about their own lives too, so let's just make the executive decision on behalf of the unborn child, that his life will amount to nothing, and ultimately he would have been glad that we took his life for him. We are so compassionate!

I don't even want to debate this. You're a nice dude from what I can tell but we won't agree on this. I was just being ironic but I don't feel entitled to decide what is good for other people.

 

[_Brutalism_]

I cant find any valid point in that post. Maybe you can clarify it. But go watch that bill hicks video before you do...

Saw it, didn't impress me at all. You might want to read some of Immanuel Kant's moral philosophy. He writes, "act in such a way that you always treat human beings as ends and never as means". The problem is this, by claiming that a 3 month old foetus is not a human being you are simply removing its rights. However, there is proof give by embryology and developmental genetics that distinct characteristics and uniqueness begin at fertilisation, when the two gametes fuse together. Hence a human cell is formed which is equipped with individualistic traits as it begins to operate like an individual unit moving towards a final state.

Some say that only "persons" have rights, and then the whole potentiality arugment begins, which also, in my opinion, is pretty clear that an embryo is the development of a person and not the development of a "thing" into a person.

Radicals argue that its after the first 14 days after fertilisation when cell differentiation begins that one can begin to talk about individuality, and not before; but not even at 3 months? Fuck that guy.

I don't see how that guy's skit is sufficient to prove or make a point about anything apart from how simple it is to make people laugh after a few beers.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

I'm sure the people that have abortions are completely aware of the ramifications of what they are doing and they don't need to be emotionally skullfucked to hammer that point home.

Fuck Oklahoma.

AGREED. HARD. uke:

 

[Aaron Smith]

Agreed, I listened to that comedy bit and it was completely unimpressive. That guy has no authoritative stance on the issue at all.

 

[GeertSamuel]

Let me tell you a story. So, I have relatives, how both would, and, do anything ANYTHING, to get a child. Only every attempt they and their boyfriend/husband do fails.
Some years ago I had this girl in my class. Back then she was 24 years, had a steady boyfriend for 8 years, living together for 5 years. When she was 18 and got pregnant, they aborted "It wasn't the timing". When she was 21, they aborted "It wasn't the timing". Now she was sitting in the classroom telling her story as if she is the hurt person here, since now for 1 year she's trying to get pregnant again, but the doctor told her it's almost impossible due to the damage that has happened. When I she finished I told her: "You disgust me, you don't even deserve to raise a child".

Now that's just my opinion. When we go to rape cases, there's a whole other story, but has anybody ever heard of the morning after pil? When you report a rape her, you instantly get that offered, you even can pick it up in any ********. As soon as something has limbs & pulse it's murder what you're doing. I have no clue why people can be so blind and consider abortion a normal thing.

There are some guys here on the forum that had a baby really early on in their life. They ( and their girlfriend ) also could've aborted...but didn't. I respect those guys, they took their responsibilities, and you see their posts? They're proud to be a father..they're proud of the gift they created and got.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

...why should she have to go through 9 months of pregnancy and labor against her will, just so that poor innocent baby can have a shitty life going in and out of foster homes, never knowing who his or her real parents are? that's fucked man.

Not to call you an idiot or anything, but what the fuck are you talking about? I have 8 adopted brothers and sisters from all over NYS and NYC, different races as well (no I'm not adopted), parents had 4 foster kids growing up. All of them but 2 know who their parents are and had the option to keep contact. The only reason why 2 of them do not is because dad split and mom died of drug OD and apparently records in NYC suck?

The "system" doesn't fuck kids up as bad as you think. I'm not excusing them, but nothing the "system" could do will ever be as bad as fucking your kid, not feeding him, letting him eat paint chips, sodomy, kicking his/her ass...

Besides, there are plenty of couples that would kill to have kids and would love to adopt a healthy new born.

Yeah, take offense to this post if you want. But you really don't seem to have any fucking clue. The original argument that adoption is a valid option is a good one.

 

[shred101]

aw it, didn't impress me at all. You might want to read some of Immanuel Kant's moral philosophy. He writes, "act in such a way that you always treat human beings as ends and never as means". The problem is this, by claiming that a 3 month old foetus is not a human being you are simply removing its rights. However, there is proof give by embryology and developmental genetics that distinct characteristics and uniqueness begin at fertilisation, when the two gametes fuse together. Hence a human cell is formed which is equipped with individualistic traits as it begins to operate like an individual unit moving towards a final state.

None of this equates to consciousness or the ability to feel pain or anything else for that matter. /topic

You can say that about DNA regarding the arguements for "potential". Are you going to argue that your toenails have rights? Maybe sperm cells should have rights as well...

 

[jipchen]

I seriously don't understand this crap about supposedly a woman chooses abortion because it's in the best interest of the kid, because otherwise the kid might be brought into a less than ideal living situation, so therefore it's ultimately more kind to just deprive the kid of life in the first place. That is absolutely insane and backwards. Abortion is 100% about choosing yourself over the needs of the baby... I don't care if I get flamed on here for saying so, because it's not like I see eye to eye with many people on these boards anyway. If a woman was truly more concerned about the needs of the unborn child than she was about her own situation, then there is NO WAY that she would come to the conclusion that the best way to meet the needs of the child is to simply eliminate the child. Come on! Are you people serious!?

I do not agree.
If you know you can't afford having a kid, if the woman is still in school, the kid's father leaves her, she took drugs while being pregnant.. I don't think it is egoistic at all.
Don't get me wrong I'm not "pro-abortion", but in the end it's none of your business, not the politicians business, and it's for shure not some christians business whether a woman chooses to give birth to a baby or not. It's just her business and no one else's. She has to deal with the kid at least 18 years and if she's not ready for it, no matter for what reason, it's her right to choose an abortion. Of course, contraception is smarter, easier and obviously not as hard to choose, but if (like in the USA) there is little or no sex education girls simply don't know about it. How should they?
Bannign sex ed from schools and then flaming on abortions is just absurd, perverted and cruel.

And forcing rape/incest victims through this procedure is just..disgusting. They will fucking kill themselves after that experience.

They should have spent the time and money wasted on passing this piece of shit law, on educating women and letting them know that there are certainly other options. At least THAT has the chance to do some good.

This.
(despite disagreeing with nearly every other thing you posted in this thread )

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

Not to call you an idiot or anything, but what the fuck are you talking about? I have 8 adopted brothers and sisters from all over NYS and NYC, different races as well (no I'm not adopted), parents had 4 foster kids growing up. All of them but 2 know who their parents are and had the option to keep contact. The only reason why 2 of them do not is because dad split and mom died of drug OD and apparently records in NYC suck?

The "system" doesn't fuck kids up as bad as you think. I'm not excusing them, but nothing the "system" could do will ever be as bad as fucking your kid, not feeding him, letting him eat paint chips, sodomy, kicking his/her ass...

Besides, there are plenty of couples that would kill to have kids and would love to adopt a healthy new born.

Yeah, take offense to this post if you want. But you really don't seem to have any fucking clue. The original argument that adoption is a valid option is a good one.

no offense taken. I don't think a woman that is raped should have to go through that. You do. That's fine - to each his own.

nobody in this thread is ever going to agree and this is just making all of us think less of each other for no reason. fuck this thread.

 

[shred101]

Im not particularly pro or anti abortion. It would be better if population kept itself fucking level and every kid was looked after well by their parents who were self-sufficent, healthy and able to cope... This is the real world unfortunately.

 

[STINNETT]

I just want to remind everybody that I posted this, so you don't read too far into what I'm saying.

Nobody likes abortion. I would greatly prefer it if no one had abortions, or if none were needed. It's far wiser to avoid a pregnancy if you don't want one, it doesn't take a pro-life mindset in order to understand that or to practice it. None of us think that abortion is just some meaningless thing that women should be able to do twice a month at a drive thru window. It's fucking terrible and it's tragic.

But women are going to have abortions anyway. Somehow. Women are going to make their own choices about what is moral and immoral from their own perspective, and their right to do that is the only thing that I'm concerned with.

There are several analogies and comparisons one could make to help illustrate the significance of this right to choice - but I'm sure you've heard them all.

The point on which people seem to diverge is the issue of potential. I'm not one who thinks late term abortions should be allowed. I think the cut-off should perhaps be stricter than it is, and I'm not opposed to educating women about their alternatives - (but not forcefully). I see a point where the potential we are dealing with becomes undeniable. But I don't see an early term abortion as a clearly defined immoral act.

Sure, you're removing the potential for a future life - but it's only an issue of semantics as to whether or not you're removing that potential every time you jerk off into a Kleenex, or a woman's ovulation is interrupted by the birth control pill. You've allowed one additional step to take place - but who is to say at which step you cross the line from moral to immoral?

I could easily say that I see abortion as immoral, personally. I would not want someone that I knocked up to do it. I would feel terrible. But I don't feel so sure of my own opinions on morality where this is concerned that I would force them on anyone else. That is all that being pro-choice is about. It has nothing to do with being "pro-abortion" or even feeling that abortion is moral.