Good job christians in Oklahoma. =(

[CatharsisStudios]

if a women is raped just get the plan b i guess, problem solved there i guess. but i see how thats pretty brutal but i think 99.9 abortions are just pure selfishness that someone can't fucking man up too

 

[_Brutalism_]

None of this equates to consciousness or the ability to feel pain or anything else for that matter. /topic

You can say that about DNA regarding the arguements for "potential". Are you going to argue that your toenails have rights? Maybe sperm cells should have rights as well...

Despite the fact that physicians argue about WHEN the foetus is capable of feeling pain, this has nothing to do with it. If you're unconscious or in a coma does that mean you're freely subjected to harm without any moral constraints in your favour? Come on.

You misinterpret the potentiality argument. Humans have rights, not toe nails or sperm cells or eggs. The point is that the fusion of sperm cell with ovum results in an human at its minutest form, in the earliest stages of development (as I said before, some argue that its only after 14 days that individual traits become apparent and so they say that it is only then that you can claim the embryo is a human), therefore the embryo, being a person with potential to develop into something like you and me should be treated with respect. Hope that cleared it up

nobody in this thread is ever going to agree and this is just making all of us think less of each other for no reason. fuck this thread.

I agree, unfortunately.

 

[Aaron Smith]

I dig my pastor's answer on the rape question: "A life is a life. And though the woman is a victim, let's not make the child a victim as well".

The actual question starts at 1:59, the first section is just the generic video intro for that series of questions...

 

[John_C]

Props to Will and Aaron in this thread.

Personally I think that pregnancy tests should be made cheaper somehow, so girls (those on contraceptive pills) would actually find out whether they are pregnant early on, meaning that a greater proportion of abortions could take place earlier.

I do think that a lot of the people posting more angrily here should stop and think whether they can truly justify their beliefs on this subject.

 

[John_C]

I just want to remind everybody that I posted this, so you don't read too far into what I'm saying.




The point on which people seem to diverge is the issue of potential. I'm not one who thinks late term abortions should be allowed. I think the cut-off should perhaps be stricter than it is, and I'm not opposed to educating women about their alternatives - (but not forcefully). I see a point where the potential we are dealing with becomes undeniable. But I don't see an early term abortion as a clearly defined immoral act.

Sure, you're removing the potential for a future life - but it's only an issue of semantics as to whether or not you're removing that potential every time you jerk off into a Kleenex, or a woman's ovulation is interrupted by the birth control pill. You've allowed one additional step to take place - but who is to say at which step you cross the line from moral to immoral?

I could easily say that I see abortion as immoral, personally. I would not want someone that I knocked up to do it. I would feel terrible. But I don't feel so sure of my own opinions on morality where this is concerned that I would force them on anyone else. That is all that being pro-choice is about. It has nothing to do with being "pro-abortion" or even feeling that abortion is moral.

Pretty much sums up my opinion here. Being pro choice just means not being so arrogant as to think you should to impose your morality on everyone else

 

[El_Gato]

Are you women in wrong situations to know/decide what's better for them?

 

[freewill]

fuck...

 

[SocialNumb]

I seriously do understand this crap about a woman choosing abortion because it's in the best interest of herself, because otherwise the cell cluster might be brought into a less than ideal living situation, so therefore it's ultimately more kind to just get rid of the cluster of cells in the first place. That is absolutely rational and forwards. Abortion is 100% about choosing yourself over the needs of some cells... I don't care if I get flamed on here for saying so, because it's not like I see eye to eye with many people on these boards anyway. If a woman was truly more concerned about the needs of the cell cluster than she was about her own situation, then there is every reason to the conclusion that the best way to meet the needs of the cell cluster is to simply eliminate it. Come on! Are you people serious!?

You're welcome.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Ok to get this understood. (I hope)

12 year old girl living in Oklahoma is raped by dad and ends up pregnant.
12 year old girl is suffering from just being raped, dad goes to jail and possibly even the mother.

Now what you have is a 12 year old that's pregnant and who has no parents.
She decides she doesn't want to have her fathers kid and can't afford it anyway.

With this law. She walks in and the doctor shoves an instrument up her to do the ultrasound, even though this can be done another less intrusive way. Doctor shows soon to aborted cell cluster or fetus depending how long. Patient has option to look away.
Then doctor shoves another instrument to get the abortion rolling.

Evangelical Christian says: "That's what you get for being raped and deciding to get an abortion you filthy sinner"

12 year old girl is traumatized from rape.
12 year old girl is medically raped.
12 year old feels guilty for being raped and now has to carry the guilt of being medically raped as well as having to live with the abortion.

Yup, nothing can go wrong. Pro Life forever!

God dude, what the fuck is wrong with you. uke:

Girls under the age of 15 account for less than 2% of all abortions performed in the US. Less than 1% for rape or incest. 6% for health complications. 93% is due to just being a dumbass and not wearing a rubber or taking care of business with birth control AKA not in the plan.

But hey, lets just go ahead and base this whole argument on 8%. Fucking amazing argument you have man. Of course special shit should be taken into consideration but it shouldn't be the basis for the whole bang.

I'm in no way pro life, but for fucks sake man, try to come up with an argument that isn't completely fucked.

1 out of every 5000 parents (yeah, lol pulled that stat out of my ass, the earlier ones are real though) will probably beat the fuck out of their kids. Therefore every parent has to be an asshole.

 

[JMarz]

Ex just having a miscarriage and all, this is all an interesting read.

EDIT: Don't say sorry. Bitch drank herself to it.

 

[Bekanor]

No government anywhere on the planet has the right to interfere in what you do with your body. I can't believe that in 2010 personal liberties STILL take a back seat to archaic moralist myopia.

That's the argument here, exactly how much say your government has in what you do to yourself. Not how your personal choices affect the decision making process of a deified HR guy or at what point a foetus can recognise that it's vagina cabin is now full of whirling mincing death or how you knew this guy once who had something bad happen to him and somehow that relates to the issue at hand.

 

[STINNETT]

God dude, what the fuck is wrong with you. uke:

Girls under the age of 15 account for less than 2% of all abortions performed in the US. Less than 1% for rape or incest. 6% for health complications. 93% is due to just being a dumbass and not wearing a rubber or taking care of business with birth control AKA not in the plan.

But hey, lets just go ahead and base this whole argument on 8%. Fucking amazing argument you have man. Of course special shit should be taken into consideration but it shouldn't be the basis for the whole bang.

I'm in no way pro life, but for fucks sake man, try to come up with an argument that isn't completely fucked.

1 out of every 5000 parents (yeah, lol pulled that stat out of my ass, the earlier ones are real though) will probably beat the fuck out of their kids. Therefore every parent has to be an asshole.

Everyone knows that extreme situations are the exception, not the norm. But no matter what the frequency - the most extreme cases are the ones that have to be considered. They are the ones that push your reasoning to its limits and allow you to decide if it's sound.

The rape or incest victim may be a one in a thousand thing - but they should also be the first ones you think about before you pass a law that would be hurtful to them. Part of what's heinous about the Oaklahoma bill is that there is no provision for dealing with an exceptional situation - so you have to cite such a situation in order to illustrate that.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Everyone knows that extreme situations are the exception, not the norm.

Yeah see that's the problem. I'm not so sure with him.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

And yeah man, the Oklahoma law is completely fucked.

 

[CatharsisStudios]

living in oklahoma trust me i know we have the highest rate of teenage pregnancies i think in the US most of it is just stupid whitetrash dumbasses who just think that they can abort the kid because they don't wana live with their mistake, its not mostly rape its not health defects its selfishness

half of them are just gonna fucking misscarrige because they are fucking dumb

 

[GarethSE]

He's usually right as well.

 

[Seth Munson]

if a women is raped just get the plan b i guess, problem solved there i guess. but i see how thats pretty brutal but i think 99.9 abortions are just pure selfishness that someone can't fucking man up too

thank you, why i am a daddy

 

[SocialNumb]

God dude, what the fuck is wrong with you. uke:

Girls under the age of 15 account for less than 2% of all abortions performed in the US. Less than 1% for rape or incest. 6% for health complications. 93% is due to just being a dumbass and not wearing a rubber or taking care of business with birth control AKA not in the plan.

But hey, lets just go ahead and base this whole argument on 8%. Fucking amazing argument you have man. Of course special shit should be taken into consideration but it shouldn't be the basis for the whole bang.

I'm in no way pro life, but for fucks sake man, try to come up with an argument that isn't completely fucked.

1 out of every 5000 parents (yeah, lol pulled that stat out of my ass, the earlier ones are real though) will probably beat the fuck out of their kids. Therefore every parent has to be an asshole.

Dude, it's an extreme example of what could happen with this law in particular. I don't care if it's 1 in a million. As far as I can tell, this 1 still has to go through this unnecessary procedure in Oklahoma.

 

[SocialNumb]

For the record, I didn't abort my son yet. He's on his way to 19.


By the way, did anyone watch Aaron's pastor? I didn't, I personally can't stand him. I used to be subbed to that guy. He would never answer my questions and always deleted my comments. No, they where not rude.

 

[greyskull]

I dig my pastor's answer on the rape question: "A life is a life. And though the woman is a victim, let's not make the child a victim as well".

The actual question starts at 1:59, the first section is just the generic video intro for that series of questions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=484r9RHjXN8

sorry Aaron, i respect you and most everything else you say,(other than the religion bits ) but im going to have to beg to differ on this one.
why should the woman feel like she's being raped again every day for 9 months, and then every day when she sees the child.

That said im outta this discussion; I love you all