Guitar recording : different guitar, amp... between left and right side

I can't argue with that test if it sounded equally as wide to you, but the PRINCIPLE remains the same. I'm not saying that the same settings WILL cancel each other out, but in principle, the more different the signal, the farther apart you can push them L & R.
What I'm basically saying is that, if the performances are THAT tight on each side, they will draw each other in when using the same tone, especially in a mix. It can still be loud, hell it may even seem apparently LOUDER, and it can still have width, but the width is more defined with difference. To go deeper, it's this same principle that makes 5.1 a little trickier.
 
born of osiris - the new reign
thats pocketed to fuck and sounds just as wide
stop talking out of your ass.
 
If you can find two amps with different voicings that complement each other perfectly, you'll get an amazing sound.
Just ask Andy Sneap about This Godless Endeavor and Doomsday Machine and he'll tell you it fucking works well.
 
Yes, but that was a both amps on both sides, not different sides.

Both those albums had 4 tracks of rhythm, 1 track of Recto and 1 track of Krank on the Left, and 1 track of Recto and 1 track of Krank on the Right.
 
quadTRACKED means quadtracked, not double tracked, double copied. If you want that many rhythm tracks, you need to play it so that the copies don't cancel each other out. If you just copy audio, all you achieve is a +3db boost in your overall mix.

lol x) ok thanks x) x) x)
 
haha I think I actually get what Chonchball is saying. Although I dont completely agree with him, I think I know what he is trying to say. Let me try and see if I can make sense of this.

He is saying that having two different amps would help fill the stereo field and widen the actual sound, where as two tracks of the same amp would be limited in its ability to fill the stereo field. I get where your going with this, but I dont think its factual at all considering how many guys on here use the same amp for all their tracks and it sounds pretty much as big as it can get.
 
Stereo vs Mono:
A stereo sound has two independent channels, one left and one right. The left and right signals of the stereo signal are similar but not exactly the same. The two channels are used to give the audio a sense of depth. Mono sound have the same signal reproduced by both speakers. Since the signal content going to each speaker is precisely the same.

Mono describes a system where all the audio signals are mixed together and routed through a single audio channel. Stereo sound systems have two independent audio channels, and the signals are reproduced by two channels separated by some distance.

This is info that I found in Internet.
Chonchball, sorry to say but it´s you that need to review this basic concepts of sound.
 
another one for chonchball. one single guitar track CAN be copied to make a "simulation" of doubletracking, just delay one of the tracks a few ms to simulate the effect of human imperfect playing, and it will stop just monoing up and sound like two separated guitar tracks. Of course it's not the most ideal way, but it IS a possibility
 
disagree with chonchball..although I know what he is trying to say...

you only get the mono effect when you copy and paste a single track to try and double it...when you pan it left and right it will still sound mono.

If you record them seperately it sounds stereo.

edit: wtf is 'big MONO' ...

isn't it either stereo or mono?

and yes I know nothing about physics.
 
I always quad track!!!
And I mostly try 2 amps to compliment each other.
Then both guitar players play the 2 amps for their 2 takes.
like:

G1 amp 1 100% L
G1 amp 2 75% R
G2 amp 2 75% L
G2 amp 1 100% R

So I have the fat sound of both amps together on both sides.

You also could record a di track with the peavey and reamp the take with the cobra and adding the take for a more complex sound.

But I like the sound of your clip, so if your happy with it, go with it:)
 
he forgot to think about the fact that each recording will have, if you zoom to the sample, differences at that level because the strings move differently during the time. The fact that it's hard to make a difference between both sides doesn't mean it is not true stereo. The term "big mono" is useless, a track is mono, or stereo, period.

Our ear listens in stereo, and differences when using only one source are not as significant as those between 2 takes of guitares.
 
If what I posted was unclear, what I'm saying is, using the same settings limits you in your perception of what is happening on the left versus the right.

using different settings helps your brain decipher what is happening on the right and on the left. if you want one big guitar sound, OBVIOUSLY different takes of the same tone will still sound nice and big in the stereo spectrum, and they will not phase each other out at the center, or into the center, BUT my point is, when you vary the tones, you are able to achieve wider stereo feel based on what your brain is decoding.


Also, I did not make up the term Big Mono. Big Mono (or Loud Mono as someone else said, although I've never seen that term used congruently) is a term used to describe exactly what happens when the same track is panned hard left and copied and panned hard right. it's definition extends into what happens when extremely similar signals are on the left and the right as well.

saying that the strings move at different frequencies is exactly right, but that's also basically the same thing as saying when a stone falls in japan, it creates a ripple effect that moves molecules in the deep sea of the baltic. all existential nuances of the sound and its physical properties aside, what i'm saying is this:

- yes you can achieve a BIG sound with the same amp settings. and that may be exactly what some people LIKE and are going for. they won't cancel each other out like my karaoke example, i just cited that as an extreme example of the realtionship of your left and right channels and how they interact in the center.

- yes you can use the same DI track, move it a few milliseconds later and get that oddly shifted feel of the track surrounding you as well... if you want to call that stereo... reamp that DI again and yeah the air will move a little different on the second take and you'll get a slightly different version from the L to the R and it will still appear to be in stereo. I agree with all of that.

- but ALSO yes, your ears will hear the signals with more distinction in the stereo field if the tone settings from the left differ from the tone settings on the right. and with pseudoharmonic stereo wideners, you are able to phase out the center frequencies even more to keep pushing them out and out and out before they reach the point of cancellation.

i'm actually surprised at how heated this became.

"wow, that escalated rather quickly... I mean that really got out of hand."

The term "big mono" is useless, a track is mono, or stereo, period.

Really? Have you been in a movie theater in the last decade?
 
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/631208/Robbie Final.mp3
identical settings on each side would like to have a word with you

what makes shit sound wide is those minute differences in the playing, literally the 3-5ms shit you proclaimed shit should be pocketed to, not different fucking amp settings. that'll make your guitars sound more interesting if done right, but it isnt as huge a fucking difference as you proclaim it to be.
and hell if the same settings on both sides is good enough for andy sneap, its good enough for me. And don't get me wrong, you seem to generally know your shit, you do good mixes, but this just seems pretty fucking moronic on your part.


:erk: He's right man. You basically said it a little bit yourself even. It's the differences that create the space. This is why time delaying one side, slightly detuning one side or even bringing down the volume on one side makes it sound more spread out.

Having the same stuff on both sides can work, but I doubt Andy's #1 priority in a mix is to create a huge stereo spread. Obviously that's part of it, but for something thick and heavy that's more for reinforcement and strength, not width. It wouldn't be worth sacrificing raw power for width in this genre for the most part. There's plenty of music that's way wider sounding than rock or metal because they don't conform as much to a formula as we do. Let's be real we all put guitars left and right. There isn't nearly as much air and depth in heavy styles as there is in other styles.

Hooray for delay! :) They create a reference point to our intial perception. This difference creates..... SPACE!

BTW I know my mixes aren't that great. Knowing some stuff and being able to properly apply it are different things, but I'm working on it!:loco:
 
disagree with chonchball..although I know what he is trying to say...

you only get the mono effect when you copy and paste a single track to try and double it...when you pan it left and right it will still sound mono.

If you record them seperately it sounds stereo.

edit: wtf is 'big MONO' ...

isn't it either stereo or mono?

and yes I know nothing about physics.


By big mono it means that the sides are so similar that overall you end up with a sound similar to mono. Double tracking definately helps try to get away from it, but there are better ways if width is your main priority. Multiple takes is just a way for us to gain some width while keeping in line with what we're trying to get across. But as I said before to go all out on your spread you'd have to sacrifice something else, like say those bludgeoning guitars on each side! The multiple performances are proof of this working. It's those slight differences that give it that width. The more different you make the sides the more that effect weighs in. Of course you have to be careful and stay within reason to still keep things cohesive and not disconnected, but that's the hard part in the first place. Creating illusions. :D

Do this little experiement. Record something and pan it left. Play something fairly similar but definately different and pan it right. It won't be as hard hitting as two of the same takes most likely, but it'll sound wider.