Guitar Tone Competition IV!

[Soundlurker]

The DI sound great, good work lolzgreg and colonel_claypoo!

I've only got 1 question.
If we want to win are we supposed to send a mix with the guitars 10 times as loud as they would've been if we were mixing this and not turning it into a loudness war?

Currently the mixdown shouldn't exceed -1db during the highest peak, which is way too much space considering the drums peak out at -12.5db max. From my brief test a reasonable mix would probably not have a louder peak than -3.0 db which is a huge difference considering the fact that you'd be able to bring the guitars up 6 db before the mixdown gains these 2 db.

 

[ahjteam]

The DI sound great, good work lolzgreg and colonel_claypoo!

I've only got 1 question.
If we want to win are we supposed to send a mix with the guitars 10 times as loud as they would've been if we were mixing this and not turning it into a loudness war?

Currently the mixdown shouldn't exceed -1db during the highest peak, which is way too much space considering the drums peak out at -12.5db max. From my brief test a reasonable mix would probably not have a louder peak than -3.0 db which is a huge difference considering the fact that you'd be able to bring the guitars up 6 db before the mixdown gains these 2 db.

Since you are not allowed to change the volume of the master fader and the drums, it won't turn into a loudness war. The -12dB peak on the drums was left so that the headroom wouldn't be a problem if someone likes their guitars and/or bass really loud in the mix. My whole mix peaked at something like -7dB. If someone really maxes out the headroom, there is totally something wrong with their tone.

screenshots? why?

You got a problem with that?

 

[Soundlurker]

I understand that. The problem is that everyone will submit mixdowns with the guitars way too loud so if you do decide to submit one with the guitars where they should be it will be perceived as weak and less exciting.

 

[ahjteam]

I understand that. The problem is that everyone will submit mixdowns with the guitars way too loud so if you do decide to submit one with the guitars where they should be it will be perceived as weak and less exciting.

Since many of us are wannabe "superior than audiophiles" listeners, I think since we have one common static element, the drums, the balance "in the mix" and tone of the guitars is more important and at least in the previous 3 competitions the ones with loudest guitars didn't win with similar headroom on the backingtracks, but YMMV.

 

[~BURNY~]

I don't mean to offend anyone involved and I know a few peeps already

complained about this but honestly,

I don't hear the "pop punk" at all. It sounds more like some kind of quirky

dorky happy nintendo metal.

Tempo is too fast, there's no groove, playing is too rigid (which is great... for

metal), there's only fifth power chords... etc

I don't even know how to approach this.

I guess I should have paid attention earlier in the creation process.

 

[HvO]

Are we not allowed to "adjust" the timing of the DI tracks?

IMO the DI track sounds edited
especially at the beginning of the song...

 

[Soundlurker]

I don't mean to offend anyone involved and I know a few peeps already

complained about this but honestly,

I don't hear the "pop punk" at all. It sounds more like some kind of quirky

dorky happy nintendo metal.

Tempo is too fast, there's no groove, playing is too rigid (which is great... for

metal), there's only fifth power chords... etc

I don't even know how to approach this.

I guess I should have paid attention earlier in the creation process.

Well yeah I don't feel it's really a punk rock song either but since almost 200 hundred people (me included) didn't criticize the song when Anssi posted a midi I'd say our best best is to simply ignore all labels and titles and just do what sounds right. Who knows, we might end up with more varied submissions because of that

 

[ahjteam]

@Burny: I used a Sum41 Still Waiting and Blink 182 First Date songs as reference when I was making that track, and I have always considered them as pop punk or atleast punk rock. And I take that Nintendo comment as a compliment, it's a big influence to me And if you look at the chords from Blink 182, Green Day, NOFX, Sum41, Bad Religion, Offspring or something, it's basically just only fifth power chords, so I don't see what the problem is with that. Also on the tempo... Bad Religion's Punk Rock Song is 180 bpm, Sum41 Still Waiting is 192 bpm, Green Day's Basket Case is 174 bpm, Blink 182 First date is 192 bmp. My clip is 175 bpm.

PS: The track might seem a bit ADHD because I tried to cram many different types of playing styles in a short clip so you can hear how the guitar tone reacts to different stuff. It is not meant to be a "good song". But at least you have submitted your song as the first one, so I hope you got something out of it

 

[Trevoire520]

To be honest this is so typical of this forum, Anssi spends all this time organizing this, asked for input on song choice, asked for someone to process the drums etc. Basically no-one bothers to help out when asked and then once it's all going everyone comes out of the woodwork to complain about how they dont like it.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

It's not typical of this forum. It's typical of life...

 

[~BURNY~]

To be honest this is so typical of this forum, Anssi spends all this time organizing this, asked for input on song choice, asked for someone to process the drums etc. Basically no-one bothers to help out when asked and then once it's all going everyone comes out of the woodwork to complain about how they dont like it.

Hence the first and last sentence of my post.
Anyway, I submitted my entry. Not too happy with the result but it still was interesting.

 

[ttrentt]

I feel this song is pop punk, it isn't my style either but I am not here to complain! Thanks to everybody who put in the hard work to organize this contest and to the sponsors!

Thanks!

T

 

[jipchen]

Yeah, thanks for the effort Anssi, lolzgreg, colonel_claypoo and Shadow_Walker. It will be fun, good luck everyone

 

[Soundlurker]

Glad there are still people who are looking at the whole competition in a more positive way. It's all about having fun while learning a thing or two and obviously winning a prize is not a bad bonus


I have a proposition regarding the actual voting. Since it's so easy to register fake accounts (you or a "friend with good intentions") could we count only people who've posted in the thread with the poll? That way people with 1-2 posts can easily be ignored and the process of voting will be more fair.

 

[lolzgreg]

IMO the DI track sounds edited
especially at the beginning of the song...

Yes... I did edit a little bit... the point is is that in order to provide consistency NO ONE WHO IS PARTICIPATING may alter THE CURRENT STATE of the tracks.

You guys really do complain about everything. I should show you some of the other "professionally recorded" fucking DI tracks I've gotten for reamping... give me a fucking break already.

Next someone is going to listen to the DI solo'd and say "oh there are a few pops in the beginning." Do you hear them through the amp? No... do they alter the sound of the finished product after it's reamped? No. Does one of the lead tracks start and end 1/10th of a second before a rhythm track? Yes. Do you think Sneap edits all of the guitar playing of bands he does to the grid? Absolutely not, and people who are focusing on having everything conform DEAD to a grid when it sounds in time are out of their mind. Music is to be listened to; you don't see a damn arrange window every time you pop an album in your car, and if you want to, you're losing the focus on the music.

 

[ahjteam]

Do you think Sneap edits all of the guitar playing of bands he does to the grid? Absolutely not, and people who are focusing on having everything conform DEAD to a grid when it sounds in time are out of their mind. Music is to be listened to; you don't see a damn arrange window every time you pop an album in your car, and if you want to, you're losing the focus on the music.

I totally agree. And to quote Sneap on a very recent interview:

"Coming from the old school approach and days when in the studio guitarists would lay down a solo live and actually perform it as such, but with today’s technology, its easy to fall into the trap of using it to do most of the work, where a guitarist can literally cut and paste parts. The focus is no longer on actually performing it, but rather, making it sound perfect on record. Do you find technology has made musicians lazier in the studio?

Yes definitely and that is a really good question. I see it more and more, especially if a band hasn’t sort of seen Pro Tools. But once they get a gist of what you can do with it, by the end of the session, they’re literally putting down two bars and looking to you and saying, ‘you can paste that’. I’m really steering away from that now. I used to do it quite a lot to get it really bang on tight. But one thing that made me realize it was not the way to go anymore was the amount of live recordings I’ve been doing in the last five or six years. A live recording sounds rough as hell when you solo the tracks, but when you throw all the faders up and everything is in the right spot, you don’t notice it, and it sort of adds to the actual feel of the band. I think the ear sort of gets used to hearing something that is looped. I hear it a lot when I listen to stuff on American radio that is all auto tuned and all cut and pasted and everything is done with Beat Detective, I mean it is boring. You get tired listening to it. "

 

[HvO]

yeah, I HATE perfect edited guitars too! they start to sound like midi guitars! uke:

 

[kernelxsanders]

You got a problem with that?

no i was just trying to clarify... because it seemed contradictory.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

I'm assuming Delay is fair game, yes?

 

[Trevoire520]

Yep, you can process them in any way you like but not edit the performance.