Hardcore questions

[J.]

First of all, this is not flame-bait. I really want to ask you guys some serious questions without resorting to some mindless metal vs. hardcore argument.

I was just thinking about some things that I would like clarification on, if that's OK. I'd lke serious responses only please, so if you're gonna act like a twat, go respond in one of the countless drunk threads, please, kthx.

Questions:
1. Does your hatred for -core music stem from the musical qualities, or something like oversaturation or the general neanderthal attitudes of the diehards?

If it's because of the music, then I can understand, though I doubt many of you have even given it a chance, instead judging an entire genre based on crappy promos. If it's oversturation, then this can be applied to any musical genre. If it's the fans' attitudes, fair enough, but just look at GMD or ANUS.com.

2. Have any of you actually given the music a fair, honest chance by listening to the best groups in the genre?

Like I said, if you're judging the entire scene on disposable crap that Century Media or Metal Blade are spewing forth, then that's like me judging prog on Inside Out bands. Honestly, a bunch of it is crap, but like metal, you have to sft through the shit to find the gems.

I know BWD and NAD dug Neurosis, for one.

3. What's the best and worst -core band/album you've heard? Just curious.



I'm not trying to change any of your minds. I'm really just curious, because many of your arguments can be applied to any musical genre. Again, no arguments.

 

[Doom]

The only -core albums I own are the following:

Isis - Oceanic
Neurosis - Through Silver in Blood
Old Man Gloom - Seminar II
Old Man Gloom - Seminar III

Now I never got into the Neurosis. I've only actually listened to it a few times, and I'm sure it would get better with more listens, but despite having had it for ages I never get round to listening to it.

As for the other three though, I really, really like them all. Especially Oceanic. So I actually have nothing against -core music at all. In fact, I know I'd like a lot more of it if I gave it a chance. But for now, there's still so much metal out there I want to hear, so that comes first. In a few weeks though, when I'll have broadband, I plan on checking out more stuff, as for now I'm still stuck on dial-up.

 

[speed]

I like a number of straight hardcore bands, and I love Isis, Old Man Gloom, Neurosis, CUlt of Luna etc.

Good hardcore bands I know of include All Out War ( one heavy band, its nice to hear some straightforward riffs a hell of a vicious groove, done without any care about trying to prove anything as a guitarist etc. ) 7 angels for 7 plagues, Death Threat, Earth Crisis.

 

[Demonspell]

I have no prejudices against -core bands, and while I do reject the attitudes of militant supporters of the genre, there are extremists in just about any type of rebellious music, so I can't dismiss it on that alone...most of it doesn't hold my interest except for the more adventurous bands.

 

[J.]

In fact, I know I'd like a lot more of it if I gave it a chance. But for now, there's still so much metal out there I want to hear, so that comes first.

THerein lies the root of my questions. How do you know you wouldn't enjoy the -core bands more than the metal bands? I really am curious.

 

[J.]

I wouldn't say I "hate" -core music, I'm kind of apathetic towards it. Do I hate most other musical genres like jazz or prog? No, they're just not for me, so I leave them well alone.

But how do you know they aren't for you? Have you delved deep into each genre, or heard one or two bands and a few songs from others?

 

[NAD]

1. The vocals make or break hardcore bands for me. Even some groups with interesting guitar parts might get shunned heavily by me because with so many hardcore bands those annoying vocals are CONSTANT. It reminds me of G. Love and Special Sauce: shoot the singer and you might have a decent band.

2. Yes. Today is the Day, Neurosis, Burnt by the Sun, are a few hardcore bands that I enjoy quite a bit.

3. Most bands on that Abacus sampler. Bands with constant screaming and boring go-nowhere riffs. Rwake is probably the worst album I've had to sit through, with Sadness Will Prevail being the best.

My main problem with hardcore other than the vocals is that so much I've heard is just so directionless. The riffs don't line up, the changes just come out of nowhere and make no musical sense, and the rhythm sections are just useless. The riff style can be interesting, or it can just fade into nu-metal terrority.

 

[J.]

1. The vocals make or break hardcore bands for me. Even some groups with interesting guitar parts might get shunned heavily by me because with so many hardcore bands those annoying vocals are CONSTANT. It reminds me of G. Love and Special Sauce: shoot the singer and you might have a decent band.

This is easily the most common argument. For me, I can't stand most high-pitched clean vocalists.

But still, a straight-up yell/scream isn't far from a growl or a shriek. Hell, even a lot of thrash vocalists are nothing more than a raspy, throaty bellow. And that's where I don't understand th vocal argument.

A yell is much closer to a shriek or growl or bellow (SEE 7 Angels & Plagues) than it is to a clean singer.

My main problem with hardcore other than the vocals is that so much I've heard is just so directionless. The riffs don't line up, the changes just come out of nowhere and make no musical sense, and the rhythm sections are just useless. The riff style can be interesting, or it can just fade into nu-metal terrority.

Yeah, but this can be said of most oversturated genres. I love death metal, but that genre has the most (number wise) worthless bands I've ever seen. Just unoriginal chug-chug nonsense.

 

[NAD]

But still, a straight-up yell/scream isn't far from a growl or a shriek. Hell, even a lot of thrash vocalists are nothing more than a raspy, throaty bellow. And that's where I don't understand th vocal argument.

True, but it mostly stems from the fact that not only do a lot of the hardcore vocalists I hear have a bad yell, but they never shut up. An easy death metal equivalent is Vital Remains - Dechristianize or even a lot of Cannibal Corpse. The main difference is Benton and Fisher have interesting voices whereas say the dude from Rwake has a yell that drives me up a wall. You're right though it is the same thing really, just different strokes for different folks. Oh yeah I'm not terribly fond of thrash vocalists either.

 

[En Vind Av Sorg]

Although, I generally dont like the music in any hardcore styled bands, im going with NAD on this one as far as the vocals go. I wish I could simply isolate and delete the vocals on 95% of hardcore albums I hear.

 

[J.]

Although, I generally dont like the music in any hardcore styled bands, im going with NAD on this one as far as the vocals go. I wish I could simply isolate and delete the vocals on 95% of hardcore albums I hear.

But again, you're perfectly OK with shrieks, thrash vocalists and growls?

 

[J.]

As with any music, I think when metal fans in general hear the suffix "core", they immediately think of straight edge, slam dancing, breakdowns, short hair, etc. In other words, they immediately turn away from it, even though a certain album could totally be revolutionary in their music listening.

Be honest, when you guys read/hear "core", you imediately think "Screaming vocals". Am I wrong?

 

[NAD]

"power metal"

I won't disregard a band based on their description, and I've bought blind several of the hardcore albums I own. I don't do blind purchases anymore though.

 

[J.]

"power metal"

"Ensiferum"!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NAD]

Just sayin' dude, we all have our keywords that provide kneejerk reactions. :Spin:

 

[Henrik Main]

Hey all, this is Henrik, your favourite provider of hardcore recommendations!

First of all, Neurosis, Burnt By The Sun, etc. is NOT hardcore. Hardcore is a subgenre of punkrock, and the forefathers in the scene were bands like Minor Threat and Gorilla Biscuits. Hardcore is more or less a more extreme and less melodic version of punkrock. Hardcore =/= metalcore and other "cores".

As you probably understand, I'm a keen admirer of the genre in question, and I got into punkrock and HC long before I got into metal. HC got me into extreme vocals, heavy riffing etc. when I was a lil' 12 year old rascal. Therefore:

1. I don't hate HC, I love it.

2. Yes

3. Favourite hardcore bands:

Raised Fist (Fast, extremely heavy, no compromises whatsoever. Metal fans take note! Recommended albums: "Dedication" and "Ignoring The Guidelines")

Breach (Can perhaps be labelled as "HC meets Metalcore". Always progressing until they split up (ca.) two years ago. Recommended albums: "Friction" and "It's Me God")

Refused (Yes! Revolutionary, experimental, fantastic. Old-school and new school at once. Their entire back catalogue is pure gold, but being the sucker for old-school HC, I prefer the "This Just Might Be The Truth" album and the EP Collection.)

59 Times The Pain (Masters of HC riffage, the "More Out Of Today" and the "Blind Anger And Hate" releases are mandatory if you're a sucker for fast, action-packed HC)

Gorilla Biscuits (Mandatory.)

Within Reach (Went from all-out-attack HC to a more extreme, crushing sound. Metal fans should check out their two latest albums)

Kid Dynamite (So good it's not even funny, but perhaps a bit too snotty and punky for most metalheads)

Paint It Black (Almost the same band as Kid Dynamite, and almost as good)

Misconduct (Rather similar to Within Reach)

All of these bands are Swedish, except Gorilla Biscuits, Kid Dynamite and Paint It Black.

The worst HC band I've heard is probably some tough-guy hardcore ala 25 Ta Life.

 

[J.]

In RC, when we say "-core", it pretty much covers all the bases, just for future reference. Yeah, it's a generalization, but it's needed when some in the forum will ignore Neurosis since they didn't like Social Distortion or something like that, haha. It's just easier.

Breach rules. I've got everything except Old Songs vs. New Beats.

Someone you might be interested in is Stand-Up Guy.

 

[Henrik Main]

Cool name, I will indeed check them out.

And OK, I won't be a genre purist anymore - I guess it's easier to just refer to "core", like you said, since a lot of people here aren't in the know about these particular genres.

 

[NAD]

Genre names suck. I'm always general with them because I get tired of bickering how black certain black metal bands are and also countless press kits that say stuff like "uber negative blackened thrash-core blitz death metal" when discussing some dodgy nu-metal tripe.

Hardcore is more or less a more extreme and less melodic version of punkrock.

This is the stuff I generally detest. The older stuff I can get into sometimes, but the stagnant stuff sucks.

 

[Erik]

Everything that ends with -core is -core, thereforce I mention grindcore bands

Just like everything ending in metal is metal, except nu-metal, which is an invalid genre anyhow