Help needed with definitions...

DrillSergeant

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Nov 14, 2003
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Okay, this might gonna prove to be like stirring up a hornets' nest but I still need to give it a try:
How exactly would you define Thrash, Death and Black Metal? And even more interesting: How can you distinguish one style from the other? What are the key features?
You know, most people tell you that it has to be fast, heavy and aggressive - but arent all of these styles basically all that? And on the other hand: Is e.g. Paradise Lost's Lost Paradise NOT a Death Metal-album just because it's slow? If Over Kill or Annihilater are Thrash already how can we put Slayer into the same drawer? Isn't Reign In Blood together with Seven Churches the blueprint for what would later be called Death Metal? Sure, Tom Araya isn't growling. But neither do Chuck Schuldiner and Brett Hoffmann! Does that mean that Death and Malevolent Creation don't play Death Metal? Same with Black Metal - I can't remember Dissection wearing any corpse paint. Is The Somberlain therefore a Death Metal record?
You know, a friend approached me with this as he needs to do some research for a project he's working on. And of course I have to give him something more expressive than Death Metal needs a growler and gore lyrics, Black Metal has crappy productions, satanic lyrics and corpse paint and Thrashers wear street wear and have regular singers. It mustn't be that shallow! What do the musicians on this forum think about this? I don't play any instruments so I'm just a layman. Where are the differences when playing Death, Black or Thrash? I'd say Thrash puts more attention on riffs and rhythm than on melodies. And Death Metal drummers seem to tend to play not along the actual rhythm of the songs but creating some kind of contrasting effect by using it just as a vague basis for creating their own individual structures. But all of this is just my personal impression. And as I said before I'm nothing but a layman. So please tell me your opinions.
 
I don't know much about thrash metal. I think it is a redundant style and it should be erased from the face of the planet.
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Look on www.anus.com :D It has very in depth definitions of each genre of metal, though some would disagree with some aspects of them. I would personally say that thrash has lots of palm muting and galloping rhythms, but lacks the blast beats and "surf riffs" that death metal has. The riffs are generally not as heavy, and the vocals aren't as extreme as death metal. Most death metal is very similar to thrash as it has a lot of palm muting and fast or heavy riffs, but it is heavier, has those surf riffs (single notes picked very fast unmuted, giving kind of a buzzsaw effect), and has blast beats.The guitar sound is usually crushing and thick. Black metal typically has a trebly, thin guitar sound, and little palm muting. The vocals are usually high pitched screeches. Like thrash and death metal, the songs can be fast or slower paced.
 
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You don't like Thrash - so what? I respect your opinion although I don't share it. But I didn't ask whether you like it or not but how you'd describe it. By your reaction I assume that you prefer Death and Black Metal instead, right? How come? Why are Morbid Angel good and Testament aren't?
 
Naggamanteh said:
I don't know much about thrash metal. I think it is a redundant style and it should be erased from the face of the planet.
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I disagree. Sure, there are and were some thrash bands that kind of suck, but there are also many great thrash bands, like Slayer, Kreator, Destruction, and Dew Scented.
 
DrillSergeant said:
You don't like Thrash - so what? I respect your opinion although I don't share it. But I didn't ask whether you like it or not but how you'd describe it. By your reaction I assume that you prefer Death and Black Metal instead, right? How come? Why are Morbid Angel good and Testament aren't?
Ok, my answer was tongue in cheek, maybe that wasn't apparent. Now for a more serious reply. What I meant to suggest is that thrash is in a way a subgenre or a minority genre. If you look at anus.com you won't find too many thrash metal bands listed in there. To put if bluntly, it is a watered down version of death metal and it is fast becoming extinct. I wasn't having a go at thrash metal fans, just wanted to point out if you want to include thrash metal in your analysis then you can as well include doom metal, which is musically not too different from heavy metal. And many other genres for that matter.

As for what I like (not that it is relevant for your friend's work): brutal death metal, some normal death metal, a few black metal bands, a lot of bands I label as "dark" metal, some ambient, electronic music and other stuff that is not even remotely metal.
:)
 
Yeah, a "watered down version of death metal" is also a good way to describe thrash, as it has very much in common with death metal, but it just isn't as heavy. I don't think that thrash is going to go extinct though. There are many good new thrash bands out there, like Dew Scented, Carnal Forge, The Haunted, The Crown, Lamb Of God (I would call them post thrash). The genre is simply evolving. And classic thrash bands like Slayer, Destruction, and Kreator are still quite popular. I must admit, that I am myself no a big fan of the lighter, Bay Area 80s thrash such as Testament, Exodus, Dark Angel, Violence, etc.. That style of thrash might be going extinct, and simply sounds dated nowadays.
 
Life Sucks said:
There are many good new thrash bands out there, like Dew Scented, Carnal Forge, The Haunted, The Crown, Lamb Of God (I would call them post thrash). The genre is simply evolving. And classic thrash bands like Slayer, Destruction, and Kreator are still quite popular.
I am listening to The Haunted for some reason right now. :)
 
@Life Sucks-

Life Sucks said:
Wo in Deutschland wohnst du? Ich wohne in Amerika aber meine Mutter ist aus Muenchen und mein Vater ist aus Bochum.
Kennst du garantiert nicht. Aber vielleicht sagt dir Regensburg etwas? Von da aus sind's etwa 20-25 km. Wie kommt's eigentlich, dass es dich nach Amerika verschlägt?

@all-
About Thrash... Well, I can't understand how you can call Thrash a subgenre. Thrash was there long before Death Metal became really big. Don't get me wrong, I like both styles very much and you can find as many Death as Thrash bands in my collection. And I have to admit that Thrash declined a great deal in the 90s. But I refuse to look at it as a soon to be extinct form of music. Come on - albums like The Legacy, Darkness Descends, Extreme Aggression or Master Of Puppets are still relevant, aren't they? ...Fuck, you guys sure know how to make someone feel like a dinosaur...
 
DrillSergeant said:
@Life Sucks-


Kennst du garantiert nicht. Aber vielleicht sagt dir Regensburg etwas? Von da aus sind's etwa 20-25 km. Wie kommt's eigentlich, dass es dich nach Amerika verschlägt?

@all-
About Thrash... Well, I can't understand how you can call Thrash a subgenre. Thrash was there long before Death Metal became really big. Don't get me wrong, I like both styles very much and you can find as many Death as Thrash bands in my collection. And I have to admit that Thrash declined a great deal in the 90s. But I refuse to look at it as a soon to be extinct form of music. Come on - albums like The Legacy, Darkness Descends, Extreme Aggression or Master Of Puppets are still relevant, aren't they? ...Fuck, you guys sure know how to make someone feel like a dinosaur...
Ich habe schon den Name Regensburg mal gehoert. Mein Vater is mit seinen Eltern nach Amerika gezogen als er sehr jung war, weil die Wirtshaft so schlecht war in Deutschland nach dem Krieg. Er hat spaeter meine Mutter kennen gelernt als er in Deutschland studierte. Dann hat er sie mit ihm nach Amerika genommen.

Yeah, thrash is not a subgenre. Death metal actually evolved from thrash, as some thrash bands kept on getting heavier and heavier (like Possessed, Sepultura, Kreator, Celtic Frost, and Death). Thrash is simply evolving. In the 80s many bands played the Bay Area style thash of Testament, Exodus, Vio-Lence, Laaz Rockit, etc., and nowadays we have bands like Dew Scented, The Crown, Lamb Of God, The Haunted, and Carnal Forge. Thrash is evolving just like every other genre; the death metal CDs of the late 80s and early 90s don't really sound like the death metal CDs being release these days either.
 
Thrash is far from being dead.
I really don't have much to add, exceptDark Angel. I'm surprised nobdy mentioned this band as being a example of excellent Trash Matel, very far ahead of their time. Also the about the tremello picking thing mentioned before. I believe Sodom uses that technique. 'Bah, it dóesn't matter anyway, most bands aren't influenced by one type of music anyway, genre's are pretty redundand, just'look at Dissection.
 
@Life Sucks -
Schlechte Wirtschaft? Ich würde sagen die haben wir heutzutage! Ehrlich, wenn es einen Preis für schlechtes Wirtschaften gäbe, hätten wir Deutsche ein paar todsichere Kandidaten... Aber lassen wir das. Das bringt sowieso nichts.
Dir ist Regensburg also doch ein Begriff? Könnte vielleicht daran liegen, dass deine Mum (genau wie ich) aus Bayern stammt. Frag sie doch mal, ob sie sich daran erinnern kann.

@666Phoenix666 -
I don't know... I don't think that categories are just bad. Reducing them to what they were intended for they're only a helping guide. But things became complicated when narrow-minded fans started to limit bands to a single style. You know, like Metallica have to be Thrash forever. Master Of Puppets wouldn't have been possible without other influences!

@all -
I'd like to thank everybody for contributing. I have some basic explanations now and that should be enough for my friend. At least I hope so...