J.
Old Fart
Big deal. George buys yet another star. All the Yanks fucking do is buy free agents and Japanese players.
Hey Markgugs, the Yankees Suck!
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MadeInNewJersey
nursing my wounds
Excuse me, Mr. Clueless Baseball Guy. Please explain for your fans how the Yankees "bought" anyone with this TRADE. And then please explain what in heck you're talking about with the Japanese players comment. Considering that Japanese stars have been "bought" by about 1/3 of the teams in the majors now...Dreamlord said:
bloodfiredeath
kaiju eiga
If you take into consideration that Henson, Boone, and Soriano are off the books, and that the Yankees are not paying all of ARod's salary, it actually breaks about even for them payroll-wise. In that respect, a brilliant move.
Don't get me wrong, the Yankees can suck infinite cock. I don't see them winning it all this year, in fact, I still see the wheels falling off, ARod or not. Torre and Cashman will get fired (which is a bloody shame, but it WILL happen), Sheffield will be an idiot who had a career year LAST year (that's why they call it a career year), Brown and Vasquez will do what they do best, be hurt, ARod will grumble about not playing short and the NY media will crucify him. I can't wait.
Meanwhile, the Tigers will be flirting with .500 and actually be contending in the suck ass Central. Woo hoo!
Don't get me wrong, the Yankees can suck infinite cock. I don't see them winning it all this year, in fact, I still see the wheels falling off, ARod or not. Torre and Cashman will get fired (which is a bloody shame, but it WILL happen), Sheffield will be an idiot who had a career year LAST year (that's why they call it a career year), Brown and Vasquez will do what they do best, be hurt, ARod will grumble about not playing short and the NY media will crucify him. I can't wait.
Meanwhile, the Tigers will be flirting with .500 and actually be contending in the suck ass Central. Woo hoo!
J.
Old Fart
Torre is really the only one I respect in that organization, although Jeter deserves every heap of praise, because he is one helluva player.
What I mean is that the Yankees don't "grow" stars anymore. All George does is go out and buy all-stars. Look at Mussina, Giambi, Clemens, etc. I'm sure there are more, but I'm not entirely familiar with the Yanks or the AL for that matter.
Free agency was the worst thing for baseball IMO. It made all of the players greedy, just going to the team that pays the most know matter how good or bad the team is/was. Look at A-Rod going to Texas for an example. Championships aren't won anymore, they're bought.
EDIT: Although, last year's Series is an exception, where a bunch of no-names (except Pudge) come in and beat a team loaded with All-Stars.
What I mean is that the Yankees don't "grow" stars anymore. All George does is go out and buy all-stars. Look at Mussina, Giambi, Clemens, etc. I'm sure there are more, but I'm not entirely familiar with the Yanks or the AL for that matter.
Free agency was the worst thing for baseball IMO. It made all of the players greedy, just going to the team that pays the most know matter how good or bad the team is/was. Look at A-Rod going to Texas for an example. Championships aren't won anymore, they're bought.
EDIT: Although, last year's Series is an exception, where a bunch of no-names (except Pudge) come in and beat a team loaded with All-Stars.
MadeInNewJersey
nursing my wounds
I don't really want to get into a whole thing, because the Yankee-hater argument is tired and weak, and often displays a certain level of ignorance about how MLB and the collective bargaining agreement have set rules that ALLOW the Yankees (and any other team with the means) to do what they do.
George Steinbrenner is the 16th or 17th wealthiest owner. Fact. How can people so ludicrously blame him and the Yankees for doing what they are allowed by law to do!? There are plenty of other teams who have every right AND HAVE THE MEANS to do the same thing. Yet they choose not to. So fuck 'em all.
bloodfiredeath >>> You, like many Yankee haters, rest your entire case on a wagonful of assumptions. Good luck. Then again, you root for the Tigers, so I'll just leave you alone.
Dream >>> Even as late as last year, the Yankees organization/team was loaded with home-grown talent. This year it's a bit different, with Pettitte, Nick Johnson and Soriano now gone. But Jeter, Posada, B.Williams, M.Rivera all came from the Yankee farm system. Clemens was acquired via trade, as was A-Rod for that matter. Mussina, Sheffield and Giambi are the big free agent signings.
George Steinbrenner is the 16th or 17th wealthiest owner. Fact. How can people so ludicrously blame him and the Yankees for doing what they are allowed by law to do!? There are plenty of other teams who have every right AND HAVE THE MEANS to do the same thing. Yet they choose not to. So fuck 'em all.
bloodfiredeath >>> You, like many Yankee haters, rest your entire case on a wagonful of assumptions. Good luck. Then again, you root for the Tigers, so I'll just leave you alone.
Dream >>> Even as late as last year, the Yankees organization/team was loaded with home-grown talent. This year it's a bit different, with Pettitte, Nick Johnson and Soriano now gone. But Jeter, Posada, B.Williams, M.Rivera all came from the Yankee farm system. Clemens was acquired via trade, as was A-Rod for that matter. Mussina, Sheffield and Giambi are the big free agent signings.
J.
Old Fart
I just think baseball should have a salary cap. I gues that's the point I'm trying to make. It's the only major US without one, I believe. I could be wrong though.
MadeInNewJersey
nursing my wounds
No, I agree with that. A soft cap like the NBA has would be much better. You can spend whatever you want to keep or re-sign your own contracted players. You are however, restricted in going after other teams' free agents. However, if baseball were to do this, there would need to be a MINIMUM spending as well. It's ludicrous that teams just flat out refuse to spend money and put a winning team on the field, yet sit back and have no problem reaping the gains of the luxury tax.
bloodfiredeath
kaiju eiga
markgugs said:
What assumptions might these be?
I will say that being a Yankee hater is quite natural, as I'm sure it is for any MLB fan. That's fine though, the world needs villains. My guess is that it is rather fun to be a fan of the villain. Like being a Raider fan, or something maybe not as much but one I can relate to, when everyone hated the Pistons in the late 80s / early 90s.
Other teams do not have the means. While George may be the 16th or 17th wealthiest owner (I'll take your word on that), the Yankees generate far more money than any other MLB team. Their television contract alone is ridiculous. Now they turn around and spend that money, which I can admire, and is certainly better than the owners who collect revenue sharing and do nothing. The fact remains though, that they have an unfair advantage over most every other team, teams who literally can't spend that much. The revenue should go into a pool, and divided equally amongst every team. I'm not as much of a fan of a salary cap (the NBA method is more acceptable I will agree), but there absolutely should be a salary minimum. Even without a cap, dividing all of the Yankees revenue amongst all the teams would make it much more difficult to spend that much. I mean, c'mon... the luxury tax is a joke. Now that opens a new can of worms about the collective bargaining agreement and what a joke that is, I'm sure as both baseball fans, we could agree there...
MadeInNewJersey
nursing my wounds
Well, the assumptions are of people getting hurt, the pitching staff breaking down, Torre/Cashman being fired, Sheffield not having another monster year (which btw, you were wrong on, he's put up numbers like that for the majority of the past 8 years), etc. Those are assumptions and just as unlikely to happen as they are likely to happen.
Anyway...the network that makes oh-so-much money for the Yankees was developed and created by George! He put up his money to start it. Nothing is stopping other wealthy owners from pursuing similar ventures. And in fact, with LESS competition in most other TV markets, chances are they'd have far fewer problems than the Yankees had with that cocksucker Charles Dolan and his fucking band of thieves, Cablevision.
The reason there will never be a salary cap while the current balance of power is in place is not because of the owners, or Bud Selig, or MLB. It's because of the Players Union. Until some of their power is wrested from them (yeah, like that'll happen in the near future), baseball is just going to stay this way.
Anyway...the network that makes oh-so-much money for the Yankees was developed and created by George! He put up his money to start it. Nothing is stopping other wealthy owners from pursuing similar ventures. And in fact, with LESS competition in most other TV markets, chances are they'd have far fewer problems than the Yankees had with that cocksucker Charles Dolan and his fucking band of thieves, Cablevision.
The reason there will never be a salary cap while the current balance of power is in place is not because of the owners, or Bud Selig, or MLB. It's because of the Players Union. Until some of their power is wrested from them (yeah, like that'll happen in the near future), baseball is just going to stay this way.
J.
Old Fart
MadeInNewJersey
nursing my wounds
bloodfiredeath
kaiju eiga
Those weren't really assumptions. That would mean that I really believe that's all gonna happen. It was more wishful thinking...markgugs said:
I guess it could happen... and the Tigers could also be this years Marlins.
great pickup, 'gugs. I agree that Steinbrenner does have an advantage with the huge tv contract but indeed, he just plain wants to win; and he'll spend whatever he needs to to help.
and yes some of the yankees stars are home grown; I went to Columbus Clippers games alot to see Jeter when he was in AAA. It was clear he was a future hall of famer even then.
and finally, as a red sox fan I can't really bitch about payrolls because I believe we're #2
and yes some of the yankees stars are home grown; I went to Columbus Clippers games alot to see Jeter when he was in AAA. It was clear he was a future hall of famer even then.
and finally, as a red sox fan I can't really bitch about payrolls because I believe we're #2
MadeInNewJersey
nursing my wounds
This bump is just to remind everyone that the Yankees are going to be scary on offense this year.
Also, FYI, even with spending $190 million on the team, and another $35 or so in luxury tax (which corrupt pussies like the Pirates owner just pocket), the Yankees on still on target to turn a profit this year. How is this possible? Because they put a MARKETABLE TEAM ON THE FIELD THAT PEOPLE WANT TO SEE. It's simple.
Also, FYI, even with spending $190 million on the team, and another $35 or so in luxury tax (which corrupt pussies like the Pirates owner just pocket), the Yankees on still on target to turn a profit this year. How is this possible? Because they put a MARKETABLE TEAM ON THE FIELD THAT PEOPLE WANT TO SEE. It's simple.
J.
Old Fart
I still think it's bullshit that the Yankees are allowed to get away with the overspending. I read a good analogy of the Yankees and the luxury tax: "What good is a speed limit, if a driver can just drive by a cop and throw money out the window to pay for the ticket?" or something along those lines.
Still, I wouldn't mind watching the Yanks in action, but we don't get many Yankee games down here unless they're on ESPN.
Still, I wouldn't mind watching the Yanks in action, but we don't get many Yankee games down here unless they're on ESPN.
MadeInNewJersey
nursing my wounds
How on earth is that a good analogy?
For it to be a good analogy, there would have to be a "limit" on what the Yankees can spend. MLB and the Players Union says there isn't, so in simple terms, there isn't. That's an asinine analogy Dream, no offense.
And what part about MAKING A PROFIT did you skip? Who gives a rat's ass how much they spend if they turn a profit? There are teams who spend 25% of what the Yankees do and still lose money. I wouldn't pay to see a team lose 90 games with minor leaguers either.
For it to be a good analogy, there would have to be a "limit" on what the Yankees can spend. MLB and the Players Union says there isn't, so in simple terms, there isn't. That's an asinine analogy Dream, no offense.
And what part about MAKING A PROFIT did you skip? Who gives a rat's ass how much they spend if they turn a profit? There are teams who spend 25% of what the Yankees do and still lose money. I wouldn't pay to see a team lose 90 games with minor leaguers either.
J.
Old Fart
There were payroll limits that were agreed upon in the collective bargaining agreements. Granted, this does not put a cap on salaries, but the luxury tax was implemented to discourage the frivolous spending. But like you said, you can't really stop them from doing it.
speed limit=agreed upon payroll limits
speeding ticket=luxury tax
It makes sense.
speed limit=agreed upon payroll limits
speeding ticket=luxury tax
It makes sense.
MadeInNewJersey
nursing my wounds
bloodfiredeath
kaiju eiga
I would say that your Yankee blindness is stunning, but it's very typical. It's not that simple at all and somewhere I'm sure you know it. They can turn a profit despite spending ridiculous amounts of money because they have unfair advantages. The playing field in MLB is not level. No matter who's fault that is, it's plainly obvious. Hey... I commend them for taking advantage of the system, but being proud and gloating of the fact that the super soldier Steve Rogers can kick everyone's dads' asses is laughable.markgugs said:
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