History of Metal

[Vyan]

What is the proper history of metal and its subgenres? We all know Black Sabbath started it all, but what happened after them?

Judas Priest got both power and speed going. Led Zeppelin Queen and Journey seem to me responsible for the whole hair metal debacle.

What band started sludge, besides Sabbath?

I would say that Sabbath created the first "Death" or "Dark Metal" Band.

There was lot more to Zeppelin, Queen and Journey than "hair". Zeppelin was the first band to ever be called "Heavy Metal" (by their manager Peter Grant). Without them - Sabbath wouldn't have happened. Not to mention the influence of bands like Cream & Hendrix (who were both far more glam than anything Zeppelin ever did), KISS and Van Halen. Sabbath used the sonic energy and overdrive that Hendrix pioneered and added a dark sound to it.

Metal is far more than just Sabbath, and those influenced by it.

Even at that you have to note the influence of MOTORHEAD and the punk elements of their music during the NWOBH on later Speed and Thrash bands including obviously Metallica, Morbid Death and others.

Vyan

 

[Halcyon Dusk]

Metal is far more than just Sabbath, and those influenced by it.

No, that's all it is.

Sabbath = Metal

Zeppelin was the first band to ever be called "Heavy Metal" (by their manager Peter Grant). Without them - Sabbath wouldn't have happened.

Without them Kansas and Foreigner wouldn't have happened.

Zeppelin = Power Rock

I wouldn't even call them Hard Rock... the MC5 was Hard Rock. Seriously, what does "Whole Lotta Love" have to do with "War Pigs"?

 

[Vyan]

No, that's all it is.

Sabbath = Metal

People like to beleive that, but they are wrong. Sabbath didn't just happen - there were precedents, as well as peers such as Deep Purple.

Without them Kansas and Foreigner wouldn't have happened.

Zeppelin = Power Rock

I wouldn't even call them Hard Rock... the MC5 was Hard Rock. Seriously, what does "Whole Lotta Love" have to do with "War Pigs"?

Unreasonable comparison - Try "Whole Lotta Love" to "Planet Caravan" or the "Immigrant Song" to "War Pigs".

Whether people want to admit it or not - Zeppelin was the original Metal Band. But in that time - "Metal" wasn't nearly so one-dimensional. It wasn't simply about speed or volume - it was about attitude, and Zep had the metal attitude in spades. Sabbath is a different kind of Metal, but not the only one.

Vyan

 

[prozak]

Sabbath was a stylistic incentive to metal, but equally so were King Crimson and Led Zeppelin, both of which were influenced by classical music. What do all three have in common?

(Insert bovine sounds of confusion here.)

 

[Halcyon Dusk]

People like to beleive that, but they are wrong. Sabbath didn't just happen - there were precedents, as well as peers such as Deep Purple.

There were a few scattered bands I'd consider peers of Sabbath... Hawkwind, MC5 at their most intense, a handful of others... but Zep and Purple are definately not on that list. They both influenced metal, the next generation of bands like Priest and the Scorpions, with the big-voiced frontmen and neo-classical melodies.

"Whole Lotta Love" to "Planet Caravan"

Planet Caravan is probably the most etherially cool song ever written, a substance-trip through the cosmos. Whole Lotta Love, other than the fact that that's the fucking title, is silly Penis Rock, sung by a helium sucker with a flowing golden mane.

Whether people want to admit it or not - Zeppelin was the original Metal Band. But in that time - "Metal" wasn't nearly so one-dimensional. It wasn't simply about speed or volume - it was about attitude, and Zep had the metal attitude in spades. Sabbath is a different kind of Metal, but not the only one.

Zep had the 'metal attitude' of a wiffle bat. If it helps you to grasp my point, compare Sabbath and Zep to Metallica and Motley Crue in the early 80s. Though Crue was often called "metal", and they had decent musical chops and a somewhat "hard" image, nobody could possibly say that the two played the same style of music, or that Crue was an important part of the "metal" scene.

Zep could play, they had some great songs, I'm a fan of the band, actually, but they were nothing more than arena cock-rockers with a gimmick attitude.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Look, I'll be the first to say that Sabbath were the first band to be purely metal. However, Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple were also metal. Just not of the same variety. Sabbath were definitely darker and heavier.

Although it may be difficult for some to understand, metal is not defined by skewed individual assessments of what they feel is metal or not. If it bugs you that Zeppelin, with their rock excesses, falsetto vocals, and tamer topics, was a metal band, tough shit.

 

[MURAI]

What is the proper history of metal and its subgenres? We all know Black Sabbath started it all, but what happened after them?

Ive come to a few conclusions, which are most likely wrong in a few areas.

First, Venom started black and Death metal. The Possessed put out the first true death metal album. Celtic Frost defined black metal, and Mayhem started the whole minimalistic black metal approach. Judas Priest got both power and speed going. Led Zeppelin Queen and Journey seem to me responsible for the whole hair metal debacle. Motorhead, Maiden, and Priest influenced thrash. Slayer, Diamond Head, Exodus, sepultura, and early metallica created thrash. Motorhead also sort of started hardcore and crust rock. Maiden was a big influence on power and prog, as was early Yngwie, and modern power metal seems to copy Helloween. Napalm Death started the whole grindcore/noisecore genre. Godflesh or Ministry started the whole industrial, or industrial like genre. Sepultura's Roots and MAchine Head laid the foundation for nu metal. What band started metalcore is a big question I cant answer. What band started sludge, besides Sabbath?

So, can someone ( im thinking especially Profanity) explain if this list is partially correct? I just feel it is hard to understand metal as it is now, without understanding where metal came from.

I disagree with most of that.

Heavy metal started off with Black Sabbath, who were strongly influenced by blues rock and psychedlic music. Venom influenced black, death and thrash metal bands later to come and they came up with the word black metal which was already mentioned. The Possessed were a thrash metal band (not death metal) and they just pushed that to an extreme and they were the first to come up with the word "death metal". Thrash metal bands like Slayer and Metallica were strongly influenced by the punk/hardcore bands at the time and they used to call thrash metal "punk metal" which isn't used much now. I have no idea where glam and hair metal came out of but I dont think Led Zeppelin were their influence really. Death metal grew out of taking thrash metal to a new level of extremity with Death being one of the first bands to do it. Nu-metal or rap metal came up with Faith No More and Korn and Sepultura and Machine Head might of had an influence but they definitely did not start it. Metalcore came from the hardcore scene with hardcore bands trying to mix heavy metal into their sound and it's rising with popularity now that nu-metal is dead.