Homophobia

[Blurry_Dreams]

I am gay and only speak for myself not anyone else, but a bit bemused why some people who say that they are not gay are so interested in the subject.
For me the real choice is either to be celibate or to be gay. I don't have the option to sudddenly become heterosexual .

finally a gay person posted on this thread
woo-hoo

 

[Wotan1488]

i wanna this to be a thread about homoPHOBIA, not a debate about what causes homosexuality or what causes gender identity disorder, i don't want to talk about transgenderism and the "false advertizing" aspect of it

i want to talk about homophobia
basically i want someone else to fully expain it to me
if 2 definively masculine-looking guys in wife-beaters with goatees decide to play "tonsil hockey", in the middle of McDonald's, how the hell is this really any MORE innapropriate than a hetero couple doing the exact same thing?
yeah, it would be wrong, but really it's only wrong in the way it would be wrong for a hetero couple to do the same thing

and again, i don't want to go into cross-dressing, transgendered people, gender identity disorder, etc, these are things that should be a whole different thread if you want to talk about them

Homosexuality just makes normal people feel sick, there is nothing more to it than that. People tolerating something that makes them wrench isn't enough now either to a lot of these people, they now want to push their behaviour in schools and on children, if you want to go and lick a man's arsehole then be my guest just don't tell me about it or pretend that it's as natural as fucking a woman and having kids. It isn't, it's anti-reproductive and people are naturally repulsed by it, but I wont stop you from doing it or hurl abuse, just keep it away from my kids.

10 years too late but I will argue with anyone else who agrees with this shite, Rob Halford liked to do gay shit, I still respect him, who gives a crap if you smoke pole. But I respect him because it's not his identity, I respect him because I know him for music. What is not respectable is people shoving gay shit down my throat and trying to normalize it in society. It is not normal, it is by it's nature unormal behaviour and that's fine, but that is how it's different. Man and wife kissing is fine to most people and healthy for children, two men is repulsive to many people and you can therefore consider that sort of behaviour to be rude. All that's left is forcing people to tolerate it. Notice the word tolerence, that's what it is. People are tolerating this sort of thing in the modern world, doesn't mean they like it or want to see it and people are afraid to tell the truth.

 

[CiG]

Imagine complaining about people making their sexuality their whole personality and shoving it in people's faces with that fucking username. The irony.

 

[Wotan1488]

Imagine complaining about people making their sexuality their whole personality and shoving it in people's faces with that fucking username. The irony.

Do you have children?

 

[CiG]

Fuck off pedo.

 

[Wotan1488]

Fuck off pedo.

Thought not.

 

[Bloopy]

Being repulsed by homosexuality is hardly innate. It's mostly learnt via what kids are/aren't used to seeing, or older people making it the butt of jokes. The innate part is just being weirded out by what differs from your own preferences. I'm grossed out by the thought of people eating live insects/bugs, or you chugging tins of surströmming to try and prove your Nordic superiority.

I grew up and got over the repulsion. I still view men kissing each other as confronting, but I like it exactly because it makes people like you ill.

Nature is chaotic and without the resulting variety/mutations there wouldn't be multicellular organisms, let alone mammals. Being left handed is 'abnormal' too and was at times shunned from society. There can be unusual combinations arising from chromosomes, genes, hormones, cell receptor disorders... sure, some of the variations have an "anti-reproductive" effect, but it's all absolutely as natural as anything. People whose minds are wired for same-sex thirst aren't the only ones that won't be reproducing. There's also asexuals, while people born intersex or with chromosomal disorders etc. are sometimes infertile.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

@Bloopy
ever since "homosexuality" was removed from being a "disorder" in the psychiatric diagnostic manuals, there have been people trying to add "homophobia" as a disorder

and i for one would agree with this
homophobia seems to be a mental disorder

 

[Wotan1488]

Being repulsed by homosexuality is hardly innate. It's mostly learnt via what kids are/aren't used to seeing, or older people making it the butt of jokes. The innate part is just being weirded out by what differs from your own preferences. I'm grossed out by the thought of people eating live insects/bugs, or you chugging tins of surströmming to try and prove your Nordic superiority.

I grew up and got over the repulsion. I still view men kissing each other as confronting, but I like it exactly because it makes people like you ill.

Nature is chaotic and without the resulting variety/mutations there wouldn't be multicellular organisms, let alone mammals. Being left handed is 'abnormal' too and was at times shunned from society. There can be unusual combinations arising from chromosomes, genes, hormones, cell receptor disorders... sure, some of the variations have an "anti-reproductive" effect, but it's all absolutely as natural as anything. People whose minds are wired for same-sex thirst aren't the only ones that won't be reproducing. There's also asexuals, while people born intersex or with chromosomal disorders etc. are sometimes infertile.

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/straight-men-disgusted-gay-men-kissing-images-rotting-flesh/
Straight men are more repulsed by two men kissing than they are by maggots and rotting flesh. You're making the statement that people have just learnt to be repulsed by gays based on nothing but post-modern feels. You've got no evidence of that but what there is evidence of is that homosexuality is caused by childhood abuse, usually sexual which onsets a trauma bond to the event that imprints into the brain-plasticity and makes that person gay. In other words, homosexuality is a trauma. But interesting that you said that there are divergences in perfection of genes, exactly: I agree and a hygenic society does not promote anomalies that are dysgenic and celebrate traumas. Whether it was removed as a "mental illness" or not there still compelling evidence that it's trauma based, and yes there are people born of all sorts of birth defects but a sane society does not promote that.

@Bloopy
ever since "homosexuality" was removed from being a "disorder" in the psychiatric diagnostic manuals, there have been people trying to add "homophobia" as a disorder

and i for one would agree with this
homophobia seems to be a mental disorder

Ah yes the normal documented response of straight people who are selected by nature to reproduce are mentally ill and gays are the norm. I don't even need to tell you how batshit insane you are, deep inside you know it.

 

[CiG]

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/straight-men-disgusted-gay-men-kissing-images-rotting-flesh/
Straight men are more repulsed by two men kissing than they are by maggots and rotting flesh. You're making the statement that people have just learnt to be repulsed by gays based on nothing but post-modern feels. You've got no evidence of that but what there is evidence of is that homosexuality is caused by childhood abuse, usually sexual which onsets a trauma bond to the event that imprints into the brain-plasticity and makes that person gay. In other words, homosexuality is a trauma. But interesting that you said that there are divergences in perfection of genes, exactly: I agree and a hygenic society does not promote anomalies that are dysgenic and celebrate traumas. Whether it was removed as a "mental illness" or not there still compelling evidence that it's trauma based, and yes there are people born of all sorts of birth defects but a sane society does not promote that.



Ah yes the normal documented response of straight people who are selected by nature to reproduce are mentally ill and gays are the norm. I don't even need to tell you how batshit insane you are, deep inside you know it.

 

[Bloopy]

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/straight-men-disgusted-gay-men-kissing-images-rotting-flesh/
Straight men are more repulsed by two men kissing than they are by maggots and rotting flesh. You're making the statement that people have just learnt to be repulsed by gays based on nothing but post-modern feels.

I made the statement based on my experience of finding gay men repulsive when I was a teen. I went to high school in the late 90s when half of our jokes were about homosexuality and calling someone "gay" or "homo" was the pinnacle of insults. The first time I learnt that one of my online friends was gay, I felt disgusted, shocked and betrayed. That's simply how the subject was treated at the time. That kind of upbringing combined with our own straight preference is absolutely what led us to view it as more repulsive than maggots. Not because there's some innate sense that it's unnatural - too many other species exhibit homosexual behaviour to claim that.

As for society... how exactly do you think your life would've unfolded if you were utterly gay? Some straight people don't want it normalised and some do. Those of us who do are most likely the ones who have the brainpower to compute the answer to that question, and then incorporate that info when logically deducing the sort of society we want. You picked some evidence that's questionable and/or countered by other studies. What there is much more evidence of is the negative effects of homophobia - including on straight kids.

 

[Wotan1488]

I made the statement based on my experience of finding gay men repulsive when I was a teen. I went to high school in the late 90s when half of our jokes were about homosexuality and calling someone "gay" or "homo" was the pinnacle of insults. The first time I learnt that one of my online friends was gay, I felt disgusted, shocked and betrayed. That's simply how the subject was treated at the time. That kind of upbringing combined with our own straight preference is absolutely what led us to view it as more repulsive than maggots. Not because there's some innate sense that it's unnatural - too many other species exhibit homosexual behaviour to claim that.

As for society... how exactly do you think your life would've unfolded if you were utterly gay? Some straight people don't want it normalised and some do. Those of us who do are most likely the ones who have the brainpower to compute the answer to that question, and then incorporate that info when logically deducing the sort of society we want. You picked some evidence that's questionable and/or countered by other studies. What there is much more evidence of is the negative effects of homophobia - including on straight kids.

You've given no evidence to back up your claims, further your anecdote isn't a refutation of the unnaturalness of homosexual behaviour and the repulsion that society has to it, if it is completely a social construct then why does the disgust of homosexual behavior belong in every civilization in history including this one and regardless: culture is an expression of biology in the sense that it was not invented but emerged out of memetic evolution. Further your statement that anybody smart would agree with you is an asinine comment and adds no weight to your argument. I'm a computer scientist with a foundation in mathematical logic, yet the relevance of that to this debate is nil and I will not use that qualification to assert authority, if you want to refute what I've said and have strength to your claims then show me some sort of evidence that homosexuality is only culturally opposed because all I see are post-modern feels, anecdotes and presumptions. It's incredible that most debates on the internet follow the person I'm debating declaring themselves smart. Saying you are not smart if you don't hold this position is absolutely brainlet tier of argument, you have not presented logic or anything of the sort, it's just crude rhetoric.

 

[CiG]

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/straight-men-disgusted-gay-men-kissing-images-rotting-flesh/
Straight men are more repulsed by two men kissing than they are by maggots and rotting flesh. You're making the statement that people have just learnt to be repulsed by gays based on nothing but post-modern feels.

You're misusing this study to make your point. The study is unable to differentiate between fear, anxiety or disgust (all emotions that produce salivary alpha-amylase) and so (as per the study) all it tells us is a group of men in Utah may experience a physiological response indicative of stress when witnessing a male same-sex couple kissing.

You should really read beyond headlines.

There's also the seemingly contradictory evidence that gay men are viewed more with disgust than gay women.

...there is evidence of is that homosexuality is caused by childhood abuse, usually sexual which onsets a trauma bond to the event that imprints into the brain-plasticity and makes that person gay. In other words, homosexuality is a trauma.

There are also many studies that provide counter-evidence. It's not so clear cut. Also "caused" is a strong claim.

However a statistic you must contend with is the fact that an enormous % of childhood sexual abuse exists; a number which dwarfs the % of people who identify as LGBTQ+ which means most abused children grow up to be (or remain, depending on your perspective) heterosexual. 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 13 boys in the US experience child sexual abuse whereas as of 2021 those identifying as queer is less than 6%.

There are also studies that provide bidirectional conclusions. My memory is rusty but back in 2013 a study asked if a prepubescent's sexual identity made them more or less likely to be abused (eg a gay boy/boy percieved as gay was more likely to attract abuse than a heterosexual boy or a gay girl).

a sane society does not promote that.

A "sane society" does not promote Aryan supremacy. In fact I'd be willing to bet that political extremism and ethno-nationalism produces just as much salivary alpha-amylase enzymes as seeing dudes kissing does.

 

[Wotan1488]

You're misusing this study to make your point. The study is unable to differentiate between fear, anxiety or disgust (all emotions that produce salivary alpha-amylase) and so (as per the study) all it tells us is a group of men in Utah may experience a physiological response indicative of stress when witnessing a male same-sex couple kissing.

You should really read beyond headlines.

There's also the seemingly contradictory evidence that gay men are viewed more with disgust than gay women.


There are also many studies that provide counter-evidence. It's not so clear cut. Also "caused" is a strong claim.

However a statistic you must contend with is the fact that an enormous % of childhood sexual abuse exists; a number which dwarfs the % of people who identify as LGBTQ+ which means most abused children grow up to be (or remain, depending on your perspective) heterosexual. 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 13 boys in the US experience child sexual abuse whereas as of 2021 those identifying as queer is less than 6%.

There are also studies that provide bidirectional conclusions. My memory is rusty but back in 2013 a study asked if a prepubescent's sexual identity made them more or less likely to be abused (eg a gay boy/boy percieved as gay was more likely to attract abuse than a heterosexual boy or a gay girl).


A "sane society" does not promote Aryan supremacy. In fact I'd be willing to bet that political extremism and ethno-nationalism produces just as much salivary alpha-amylase enzymes as seeing dudes kissing does.

>I'd be willing to bet that political extremism and ethno-nationalism produces just as much salivary alpha-amylase enzymes as seeing dudes kissing does.
I'm not sure what's repulsive about a lot of blonde whites in uniform. Women are into that but are repulsed by faggots. Again, post-modern feels.

 

[dvzk-cece]

I'm not attracted to blonde haired blue eyed guys in uniform, thats one sure way for me to vomit on site . Shit, I'm not even that attracted to men but I've fucked around a bit.

 

[CiG]

I'm not sure what's repulsive about a lot of blonde whites in uniform.

lol gay.

 

[Wotan1488]

I'm not attracted to blonde haired blue eyed guys in uniform, thats one sure way for me to vomit on site . Shit, I'm not even that attracted to men but I've fucked around a bit.

You're a dark eyed mutallo: soulless and ugly. Your taste is irrelevant. Great, you're a lesbian I welcome it, people like you should not multiply.

 

[dvzk-cece]

You're a dark eyed mutallo: soulless and ugly. Your taste is irrelevant. Great, you're a lesbian I welcome it, people like you should not multiply.

Its even greater when you find I'm out I'm a tranny

 

[Wotan1488]

lol gay.

Women think Nazis are hot even when they hate the ideology, and who the fuck cares what some dark eyed ugly lesbian thinks, the only taste that matters is the taste of European women with light features and they like big virile aryan men. Who cares what an orc thinks?

 

[Wotan1488]

Its even greater when you find I'm out I'm a tranny

explains a lot, did you cut your cock off or are you just a poser?