Hopefully...
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>They aren't really influenced very much
>by the goings-on of the "mainland"
>European countries, like England, etc
Yes, england is very mainland, being a bunch of islands and all. ;P
>Word War II - the only country to fall to
>Nazism in Scandanavia was Norway,
>and that was a really brutal fight.
I don't know much about norway here, but the swedish neutrality was plain bullshit. Sweden wasn't 'officially' involved, but that didn't stop iron from being provided to the germans from here. The swiss neutrality is bullshit too - they did the banking for the nazis.
Finnland, while not involved with the nazis as far as I know, have fought russia nail and tooth. I know a guy who spent three of this century's coldest winters in a tent in the finnish winterwar. He swore to never complain about heat again, and so far he's kept his oath.
>Lots of bands express the "opression
> of christianity" through their music -
>and most of those bands are from
>Scandanavia
Once again, I don't know much about Norway, but the religious liberation in sweden has proceeded quite far. Church and state were separated a bunch of years ago, christian 'power' is marginal and we have a very liberal arch-bishop.
(He allowed a controversial photo-installation to be displayed in the church of uppsala where his main seat is - pictures of a naked homosexual jesus among others. He also did only one thing when he found an issue of playboy in his son's room - he asked how much it cost.)
The opression bit might be a reference to how missioneers supressed the 'asatro' religion and culture when they came, but that doesn't make very much sense to me. It is, after all, a long long time since that happened. The christian inheritage of sin and shame still prevails to some extent, but it's going away.
>As for the social democratic systems,
>I've noticed that Sweden seems to,
>in terms of style of government, be
>more similar to Canada than any
>other country in the world.
I don't know jack about canada, but the difference in 'democracy' between sweden and the us is definitely noticeable. I'm not sure if there are rules similiar to germany's regulation of corporate donations to political parties and persons in Sweden, and I don't remember how many voted in the last election.
Still - it has been speculated that if swedes were allowed to vote in the us election, the percentage of swedes voting would be higher than that of us citizens. Seeing as how a measly 40-50% voted in the us election, this isn't very hard to grasp.
>It is a bit depressing how the US
>products get pushed down our
>throats
>Because, consumers are consumers
>and N'Sync and co. are, I'm sure,
>just as popular in Sweden as they
>are in the United States,
Yes, we get us this and us that shoved down our throats every day, and it's sickening. The widespread anti-us mentality in sweden is as justified as it is childish.
Sweden has, like most other countries, a very distinct segment - the pop-culture, which follows a few simple rules:
Anything that plays on mtv is good.
Being famous is good, regardless of why.
Soap-operas and talkshows are good.
We have our share of mindless teenage wannabes, and the disgusting american talkshows play on the pop tvchans, but there is resistance, thanks to many years of public education. Sadly, as the quality of public education has declined, so has the younger generations' resistance to this filth.
>It's true that you can get 10
>years for murder here in Sweden,
>but we do put away people for
>longer times than that also...
Yes, indeed. Max sentence 'life' is 12 years. ;P
On a side note, the food in swedish jails costs more per portion to produce than the food served in public schools - which the kids still have to pay for. Quite deservedly, they're called sweden's prison hotels.
>by the goings-on of the "mainland"
>European countries, like England, etc
Yes, england is very mainland, being a bunch of islands and all. ;P
>Word War II - the only country to fall to
>Nazism in Scandanavia was Norway,
>and that was a really brutal fight.
I don't know much about norway here, but the swedish neutrality was plain bullshit. Sweden wasn't 'officially' involved, but that didn't stop iron from being provided to the germans from here. The swiss neutrality is bullshit too - they did the banking for the nazis.
Finnland, while not involved with the nazis as far as I know, have fought russia nail and tooth. I know a guy who spent three of this century's coldest winters in a tent in the finnish winterwar. He swore to never complain about heat again, and so far he's kept his oath.
>Lots of bands express the "opression
> of christianity" through their music -
>and most of those bands are from
>Scandanavia
Once again, I don't know much about Norway, but the religious liberation in sweden has proceeded quite far. Church and state were separated a bunch of years ago, christian 'power' is marginal and we have a very liberal arch-bishop.
(He allowed a controversial photo-installation to be displayed in the church of uppsala where his main seat is - pictures of a naked homosexual jesus among others. He also did only one thing when he found an issue of playboy in his son's room - he asked how much it cost.)
The opression bit might be a reference to how missioneers supressed the 'asatro' religion and culture when they came, but that doesn't make very much sense to me. It is, after all, a long long time since that happened. The christian inheritage of sin and shame still prevails to some extent, but it's going away.
>As for the social democratic systems,
>I've noticed that Sweden seems to,
>in terms of style of government, be
>more similar to Canada than any
>other country in the world.
I don't know jack about canada, but the difference in 'democracy' between sweden and the us is definitely noticeable. I'm not sure if there are rules similiar to germany's regulation of corporate donations to political parties and persons in Sweden, and I don't remember how many voted in the last election.
Still - it has been speculated that if swedes were allowed to vote in the us election, the percentage of swedes voting would be higher than that of us citizens. Seeing as how a measly 40-50% voted in the us election, this isn't very hard to grasp.
>It is a bit depressing how the US
>products get pushed down our
>throats
>Because, consumers are consumers
>and N'Sync and co. are, I'm sure,
>just as popular in Sweden as they
>are in the United States,
Yes, we get us this and us that shoved down our throats every day, and it's sickening. The widespread anti-us mentality in sweden is as justified as it is childish.
Sweden has, like most other countries, a very distinct segment - the pop-culture, which follows a few simple rules:
Anything that plays on mtv is good.
Being famous is good, regardless of why.
Soap-operas and talkshows are good.
We have our share of mindless teenage wannabes, and the disgusting american talkshows play on the pop tvchans, but there is resistance, thanks to many years of public education. Sadly, as the quality of public education has declined, so has the younger generations' resistance to this filth.
>It's true that you can get 10
>years for murder here in Sweden,
>but we do put away people for
>longer times than that also...
Yes, indeed. Max sentence 'life' is 12 years. ;P
On a side note, the food in swedish jails costs more per portion to produce than the food served in public schools - which the kids still have to pay for. Quite deservedly, they're called sweden's prison hotels.
*hehe* true, but I was thinking of the fact that a lot of people who commited (several) murder(s) are classified as insane (or mentally ill or something similar). and when you're put in a mental institution, you can be locked up way longer than 12 years.
MetalManCPA
Papa Opeth
cool thread inspired by cool music 
..and ever since I've found thses bands (Opeth, Dimmu Borgir, Enslaved, Meshuggah, etc.), I've also thought that American metal music doesn't measure up (there are decent bands here, but I haven't heard that many with the fullness of sound as these bands)[IMO]
..and ever since I've found thses bands (Opeth, Dimmu Borgir, Enslaved, Meshuggah, etc.), I've also thought that American metal music doesn't measure up (there are decent bands here, but I haven't heard that many with the fullness of sound as these bands)[IMO]
Actually, as a Finn I have to correct that one, we were allied with the germans during the winter war, we needed their weapons and so on. And we actually had a unit of Finnish SS troops as well.
But our war was with Russia and we needed all the help we could get at the time and yeah, we did kick their whiny little asses back and even took some of their land, officially we lost the war tho.
And back on topic:
As for what comes to cold winters, that is certainly true and I think that is also one of the things that motivates some of the scandinavian bands, the long, cold and dark winters.
Speaking of which, lately has been about -25 C (what is that in farenheit?) and 'night' starts about 3pm.
Wow, I think I almost made sense that time
I guess that more unique bands surface a lot easier in smaller countries. Smaller labels, smaller scene etc. Not many here have heard of say Agalloch or Sculptured (bit alike with Opeth, customer satisfaction not guaranteed) but you've heard of Ulver, Katatonia and Opeth (well, duh!).
HoserHellspawn
Pixel Manipulator
Woooowwww... I think this was the first thread I ever posted in, way back in early May.
A standup comedian I heard once had a theory that most of the funniest people in North America are either from Canada or the southernmost areas, like Florida. His reasoning being that because it's so freaking hot or so freaking cold all the time in whichever locale, people sit around inside and tell jokes all (insert appropriate season here) long. Apparently, in Scandanavia they also play a lot of music.
I've still never seen an Opeth shirt in person...
A standup comedian I heard once had a theory that most of the funniest people in North America are either from Canada or the southernmost areas, like Florida. His reasoning being that because it's so freaking hot or so freaking cold all the time in whichever locale, people sit around inside and tell jokes all (insert appropriate season here) long. Apparently, in Scandanavia they also play a lot of music.
I've still never seen an Opeth shirt in person...
lumen
CKMS supporter
Another problem in Canada, besides the strong influence of US commercialization (and related to it), is the distribution of our population. The main areas where the population is most dense are very close to the US border and therefore more exposed to and becoming more similar to the US. And it's in these more populated areas that there is a larger musician pool. A large percentage of Canadian music comes out of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.
In many parts of the country the population is spread out much thinner, so the chances of you having someone nearby with the same non-commercial musical interests get pretty slim. There could be lots of people spread out all over the country that if combined could become first-class bands, but how do you make a band with someone in Winnipeg, Halifax and Edmonton for example? (sorry to those who have no concept of Canadian geography, but there's a vast distance separating those cities.
I'm not saying this is a definitive answer or anything, but I think it's a contributing factor.
Perhaps Australians find a similar problem (although at least spared the geographical proximity of the US)?
PS - There are a few Opeth shirts around here.
In many parts of the country the population is spread out much thinner, so the chances of you having someone nearby with the same non-commercial musical interests get pretty slim. There could be lots of people spread out all over the country that if combined could become first-class bands, but how do you make a band with someone in Winnipeg, Halifax and Edmonton for example? (sorry to those who have no concept of Canadian geography, but there's a vast distance separating those cities.
I'm not saying this is a definitive answer or anything, but I think it's a contributing factor.
Perhaps Australians find a similar problem (although at least spared the geographical proximity of the US)?
PS - There are a few Opeth shirts around here.
Haughm
Sociopath
I don't think it matters what nation an artist or band comes from. As long as they take great care in their craft, treat it as art, and are serious, honest, patient, and professional, it will naturally show in the quality of their work.
Strictly speaking about metal now, it may well be true that 85% of American bands are pure crap but, in my opinion, so are at least 85% of European bands as well. I think the same problem exists over there as it does in the US: uninspired, untalented, unprofessional, and unfocused musicians who only care about getting involved somehow in the 'scene'. It is also very easy to put out albums these days what with tons of small labels, affordable recording equipment, etc. These elements are a sure recipe for oversaturation of half ass and derivative garbage.
I've heard that the government in Scandinavia supports the arts more, most young people play an instrument, and there are more places for bands to play live and practice with ease. Anyone want to confirm this? If so, this could be a reason why many decent bands have emerged from there. Lots of practice and a comfortible musical environment tends to breed quality.
As for influences, well I don't know for sure as it is a personal thing, really. People are influenced artistically by a multitude of things. I find it humorous when people (particularly Europeans who've never stepped foot in the USA) make dumb statements like; "US bands suck because of American commercialism, terrible education system, McDonalds, and because America has no natural beauty or culture blah blah blah". For fuck's sake, I live in a state that's known for it's breathtaking wilderness and scenic beauty, in a wonderful city that's been called the Vienna of America, amid a unique and distictive Pacific Northwestern culture. Sure, these elements are quite influencial on myself as well as the other members of my band. But from experience, the majority of musicans here are very uninspired, unmotivated, and unfocused. I think THAT is more of the problem with many bands from not only the US, but also abroad. It is truely unfortunate that many remarkable musicians and bands are lumped together with the reputation of the mainstream and the majority. Such is the case with American bands. I think if people would seperate the wheat from the chaff in each country's music (not only metal) scene, they would find that true quality and artistic integrity is rare no matter where it comes from.
Oh and I do agree that isolation is a good way to 'find yourself' as an artist.
Blah, I've wasted too much time on this post. I could go on but I think I've said enough.
J
Strictly speaking about metal now, it may well be true that 85% of American bands are pure crap but, in my opinion, so are at least 85% of European bands as well. I think the same problem exists over there as it does in the US: uninspired, untalented, unprofessional, and unfocused musicians who only care about getting involved somehow in the 'scene'. It is also very easy to put out albums these days what with tons of small labels, affordable recording equipment, etc. These elements are a sure recipe for oversaturation of half ass and derivative garbage.
I've heard that the government in Scandinavia supports the arts more, most young people play an instrument, and there are more places for bands to play live and practice with ease. Anyone want to confirm this? If so, this could be a reason why many decent bands have emerged from there. Lots of practice and a comfortible musical environment tends to breed quality.
As for influences, well I don't know for sure as it is a personal thing, really. People are influenced artistically by a multitude of things. I find it humorous when people (particularly Europeans who've never stepped foot in the USA) make dumb statements like; "US bands suck because of American commercialism, terrible education system, McDonalds, and because America has no natural beauty or culture blah blah blah". For fuck's sake, I live in a state that's known for it's breathtaking wilderness and scenic beauty, in a wonderful city that's been called the Vienna of America, amid a unique and distictive Pacific Northwestern culture. Sure, these elements are quite influencial on myself as well as the other members of my band. But from experience, the majority of musicans here are very uninspired, unmotivated, and unfocused. I think THAT is more of the problem with many bands from not only the US, but also abroad. It is truely unfortunate that many remarkable musicians and bands are lumped together with the reputation of the mainstream and the majority. Such is the case with American bands. I think if people would seperate the wheat from the chaff in each country's music (not only metal) scene, they would find that true quality and artistic integrity is rare no matter where it comes from.
Oh and I do agree that isolation is a good way to 'find yourself' as an artist.
Blah, I've wasted too much time on this post. I could go on but I think I've said enough.
J
Misanthrope
Latin, NOT Mexican.
Im surprised on how much problems everyone has getting opeth and overall metal material. For a country gone to hell musically its so easy to get material in my city. There are at least 6 stores in the flea market when you can get stuff like opeth, dt, etc and even some really weird relases ( the japanese wages of sin has been on the flea market for months now ) plus 2 major stores that sell comercial crap are starting to carry real metal collections, one of them pretty fucking impressive. Maybe is because my city is medium size ( 6 million ) but i cant believe the problems people on other cities have to get descent and varied metal material.
Belial
Rainbow Demon
Very interesting thread! I'm definitely going to have to take some time today to read all the responcses!
I agree. America isn't that good for music. We seem to shell out the best Hip-Hop artists, and cheesy Britney Whore pop garbage, but nothing with a lot of substance. When I got into death metal I slowly began to realize this.
Ironically though, one of my favorite death/black metal bands, Lilitu, are American. I think that shows that we Americans are definitely capable of making some good music. If people here weren't so caught up in society, trends, and holier-than-thou Christian morality, we probably would put out some heavy death metal stuff. That's my opinion anyway.
I agree. America isn't that good for music. We seem to shell out the best Hip-Hop artists, and cheesy Britney Whore pop garbage, but nothing with a lot of substance. When I got into death metal I slowly began to realize this.
Ironically though, one of my favorite death/black metal bands, Lilitu, are American. I think that shows that we Americans are definitely capable of making some good music. If people here weren't so caught up in society, trends, and holier-than-thou Christian morality, we probably would put out some heavy death metal stuff. That's my opinion anyway.
Lina
kickass elizabethan style
Surprise! This is addressed in this very thread.
Wanna see an Opeth shirt, Hoser? Come visit me!
Misanthrope
Latin, NOT Mexican.
There was a time not long ago when america was the heart of brutal death metal, but honestly while i still enjoy them, almost all bands but Dying Fetus have started to repeat themselves ( even dying fetus its very similar in their last 2 relases ) and the overal brutal death metal from american is really aging now with little or no refreshing bands, seems like the bands i once loved it because of the originality to break the CC and morbid angel Death metal stereotypes created an steretype of their own and are starting to annoy me cause they follow it instead of creating another. There are changes in most bands music but there are no suprises, no awe inspiring evolution, no nothing. The only band that was really surprising me died with chuck. I wonder if american underground bands will always create something original to then drop the originality completly for some years until new acts appear.
Haughm
Sociopath
Surprise! This is addressed in this very thread.
[/QUOTE]
Ah yes...after reading through every damn post, I found it. While in Finland, I noticed that many underground bands play in youth centers. I wasn't sure if this was just a Turku thing, a Finnish thing, or whatever but it's a good idea.
J
[/QUOTE]
Ah yes...after reading through every damn post, I found it. While in Finland, I noticed that many underground bands play in youth centers. I wasn't sure if this was just a Turku thing, a Finnish thing, or whatever but it's a good idea.
J
Blackspirit
there are no words left
WOW! It's really weird reading all this "crap" about the part of the world that I live in.
You really have som strange views on my country! >) This is enlightening )
I don't think that any of our "laws" or things like that infect the music that is played
here in Norway, or Scandinavia. We have all types of crappy bands here....
All from dance, techno, metal, country and un-namable music....
One thing that comes to my mind is that bands here in Norway never get really famous.
Norwegians never buy music by a Norwegian band. When Mayhem comes to
play in Norway they play in front of 2000 people, while they are superstars in Germany etc.
I think that maybe the bands work harder, maybe they have more time to get better?
Maybe they are trying to proove something for their friends, for the entire population
of the world... Maybe it's pure love?
The music here in Scandinavia is very individual, very special in a way.
Can't get the words right here, but.... Am I the only one noticing how all the Swedish
bands sound experimental? They are playing with the sound, which makes it special.
It's all about feeling the music, not trying to make it your own, but it becomes your own,
because we're very much alone? We look at ourselves as cold people.
We're loners, up here in the north, and this makes us... But is that it?!
There must be something else... But the laws etc can't really have anything to do with it?!
I can't buy that... I don't know why >P
It's really cold up here, so people sit inside listening and feeling the music and wants
to create something themselves. During the winter it is really dark, and darkness
makes people melancholic, misanthopic, depressed, sad etc etc. A lot of the more
mainstreem music (at least here in Norway) is very melancholic.
This must have something to do with it I think....
Am I way off?) Did this make sense? It just looks like a big mess now...
I should've just shut up... >P
You really have som strange views on my country! >
) This is enlightening )I don't think that any of our "laws" or things like that infect the music that is played
here in Norway, or Scandinavia. We have all types of crappy bands here....
All from dance, techno, metal, country and un-namable music....
One thing that comes to my mind is that bands here in Norway never get really famous.
Norwegians never buy music by a Norwegian band. When Mayhem comes to
play in Norway they play in front of 2000 people, while they are superstars in Germany etc.
I think that maybe the bands work harder, maybe they have more time to get better?
Maybe they are trying to proove something for their friends, for the entire population
of the world... Maybe it's pure love?
The music here in Scandinavia is very individual, very special in a way.
Can't get the words right here, but.... Am I the only one noticing how all the Swedish
bands sound experimental? They are playing with the sound, which makes it special.
It's all about feeling the music, not trying to make it your own, but it becomes your own,
because we're very much alone? We look at ourselves as cold people.
We're loners, up here in the north, and this makes us... But is that it?!
There must be something else... But the laws etc can't really have anything to do with it?!
I can't buy that... I don't know why >
PIt's really cold up here, so people sit inside listening and feeling the music and wants
to create something themselves. During the winter it is really dark, and darkness
makes people melancholic, misanthopic, depressed, sad etc etc. A lot of the more
mainstreem music (at least here in Norway) is very melancholic.
This must have something to do with it I think....
Am I way off?
) Did this make sense? It just looks like a big mess now...I should've just shut up... >
P
MetalManCPA
Papa Opeth
Yeah - I had JUST heard of them around a month ago - then I won tickets to see them. Small hole-in-the-wall place with about 100 people. I stood right by the stage - man, they just ROCKED. PERIOD.
The first song I ever heard from them was Stjerneheimen, then I downloaded a few more before seeing them. The concert was a first time listen for most of their music. Now I'll have to grab Monumension and let you know.
MetalManCPA
Papa Opeth
Originally posted by Blackspirit
...I don't think that any of our "laws" or things like that infect the music that is played here in Norway, or Scandinavia. We have all types of crappy bands here.... All from dance, techno, metal, country and un-namable music....
One thing that comes to my mind is that bands here in Norway never get really famous. Norwegians never buy music by a Norwegian band. When Mayhem comes to play in Norway they play in front of 2000 people, while they are superstars in Germany etc. I think that maybe the bands work harder, maybe they have more time to get better? Maybe they are trying to proove something for their friends, for the entire population
of the world... Maybe it's pure love?
The music here in Scandinavia is very individual, very special in a way. Can't get the words right here, but.... Am I the only one noticing how all the Swedish bands sound experimental? They are playing with the sound, which makes it special. It's all about feeling the music, not trying to make it your own, but it becomes your own, because we're very much alone? We look at ourselves as cold people. We're loners, up here in the north, and this makes us... But is that it?! There must be something else... But the laws etc can't really have anything to do with it?!
I can't buy that... I don't know why >
It's really cold up here, so people sit inside listening and feeling the music and wants to create something themselves. During the winter it is really dark, and darkness makes people melancholic, misanthopic, depressed, sad etc etc. A lot of the more mainstreem music (at least here in Norway) is very melancholic.
This must have something to do with it I think....
Am I way off?
I should've just shut up... >
It's interesting to read your interpretation of how you view your countries effect on music - the "coldness" depressive periods due to mother nature that inspire your local bands to put that emotion to music.
{following comments are the writers opinion only}
If you haven't already noticed, us Americans who like this "underground" metal sound just trash the mainstream American scene. Our music isn't inspired by mother nature, but by money, and the desire to make it big by "playing" to the masses. The "good" bands here, who make no $$ and play the local scene are usually better than the bigger acts - more inspired and raw. Us undergrounders don't praise the big acts - partially blaming them of selling out or being guided by the suits behind the scene. So much of the lyrics today are about teenage problems - from suicide to cutting, etc. Because we are on such a kick in the USA, stating that SO MANY people have problems, and so many more go undiagnosed. I swear when I read the paper, I think every American could go into a doctor and be prescribed a pill.
I have to agree with Blackspirit in that it is the "surroundings" that inspire music. And it is a shame that so many great bands go unnoticed, and have to struggle to make us happy.
