House bailout doesn't pass; Shit to hit fan -- News at 11

[skeptik]

Ozzman majored in failonomics.

Seriously, the founders of this country could not have possibly foreseen the great responsibility that would ultimately fall upon the shoulders of Congress today. We have moved well beyond the idea of accurate representation, as reflected in the fact that Congress doesn't even come close to being an accurate representation of the country. I think it's time to at least require that those who are elected into office have a basic training course that educates them on key issues.

 

[The Ozzman]

Well, that's better than saying you need to major in these three subjects and minor in these four others

I actually majored in being awesome though.

 

[Lotus-Eater]

You can educate them all you want on any subjects you want. The fact still remains that politics are all about the green.

He who has the most wins.

Education will not change that.

 

[CAIRATH]

Ozzman majored in failonomics.

Seriously, the founders of this country could not have possibly foreseen the great responsibility that would ultimately fall upon the shoulders of Congress today. We have moved well beyond the idea of accurate representation, as reflected in the fact that Congress doesn't even come close to being an accurate representation of the country. I think it's time to at least require that those who are elected into office have a basic training course that educates them on key issues.

Exactly.

Well, that's better than saying you need to major in these three subjects and minor in these four others

... which as far as I can tell no one said.

Obviously politicians cannot have in-depth knowledge of every aspect that they inevitably have to deal with. But there is some middle ground between being a fucking Renaissance Man and being almost completely ignorant about the most fundamental issues. If you don't understand the fundamental principals of economics then you have no business being a politician on this level and taking part in a vote like this, period. What is the point of running a proposition by 435 different people when a sizable chunk of that group will have no fucking clue about the specifics and base their vote entirely on what other people have told them or their own "instincts". You might as well just go on the streets and run it by 435 random people then. As it stands I'd rather run the proposition by 435 people who have actually studied economics in some form and who are atleast somewhat capable of assessing the thing that they are voting on, since you know, that'd actually be useful and is kind of the whole point of even having a vote in the first place.

Populism is just complete bullshit. Life isn't fair. Not everyone can automatically do everything immediately. Some things actually require a certain amount of knowledge and training (and dare I be this elitist... intelligence), and running a fucking country should be one of those things, but for some reason it isn't. Even a bus driver requires more formal training than a politician at the national level does. How does that make any sense at all? If a politician really is so ignorant that he almost entirely has to rely on his aides to tell him what to think then we might as well cut out the middle man and get those aides to do all the decision making. Afterall it is pointless to have someone who is good at debating (though I'd argue that most politicians are not that great at this either) when he lacks a fundamental understanding of what he is debating about.

 

[cookiecutter]

I don't see how you could make that claim, cookie. The whole point of education is that you know more after going through it than you would if you didn't. I think as long as the education is actually relevant to politics (i.e. not fashion design), it could only serve to make politicians more competent.

It seems to me like every politician should at least have a decent educational background in economics, management, philosophy, and (for the national-level offices) international relations. I'm not saying people should have to get a full degree in each of those, but some certification equivalent to a college minor in each could be feasible for a person.

I think you misunderstand me. I think politicians should be educated, but it seems what some people are suggesting is having either academics from certain fields be politicians, or training politicians in a bunch of fields. To me this seems impractical.

 

[Zephyrus]

It doesn't matter how many college degrees a politician holds. None of them will give him any more foresight beyond the next election.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Seriously, the founders of this country could not have possibly foreseen the great responsibility that would ultimately fall upon the shoulders of Congress today. We have moved well beyond the idea of accurate representation, as reflected in the fact that Congress doesn't even come close to being an accurate representation of the country. I think it's time to at least require that those who are elected into office have a basic training course that educates them on key issues.

Thanks; that's pretty much what I was trying to get at.

You can educate them all you want on any subjects you want. The fact still remains that politics are all about the green.

He who has the most wins.

Education will not change that.

Please cut the goddamn blanket generalisations. Education would certainly have some effect on political decision-making. Just because politics is currently ruled by money and connections does not mean the education level of politicians is meaningless to discuss.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Cairath, great point. It certainly does make you wonder why we need a group of politicians to vote on something when virtually anyone in the world could make just as good of a decision with a group of aides and advisors behind him.

What I'd like to add to this discussion is that, even if it's impractical to require politicians to have a sizeable background in law, economics, management, etc. etc., it may not always be impractical. If anything, that list of requirements could at least be a goal for our society, which we could move toward slowly from the starting point of a "basic training course" in politics. Once the basic educational requirement has been met by all politicians, and everyone has come to accept and embrace the idea, then you can slowly ramp up the requirements until you reach the maximum level deemed practical by people.

Also, one note about a representative government: it's the interests of the people which should be represented, not the education level of the people. The whole reason we have a representative system as opposed to a direct democracy (besides issues like vote sabotage) is that political decisions should be made by someone who knows what they're fucking doing, not just by the average dipshit on the streets.

 

[Zephyrus]

New bailout just passed the Senate, 74-25. Both candidates voted in favor.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/01/news/economy/senate_rescuebill2/index.htm?cnn=yes

 

[The Ozzman]

Hopefully it doesn't pass the House, but it probably will because of all the shit that was added to the bill

 

[Zephyrus]