House bailout doesn't pass; Shit to hit fan -- News at 11

[CAIRATH]

What always worries me about situations like this is that I can never escape the feeling that many (most?) politicians involved in the situation are just incompetent. It still strikes me as one of the most bizarre facets of Western democracies that it is generally completely acceptable for politicians to be basically almost untrained in what they are actually doing. There is no specific degree or anything you need to be a politician. You don't need any background in sociology, science or economics, etc. Nothing.

Now take that to situations like these, complex economical issues where there is a huge amount at stake. Do all the people in the House who cast their vote have a solid background in economics? Do they fully understand the situation at hand here? Do they have a strong enough grasp of it to assess the proposal and decide whether it would have a positive or negative effect on the current situation? I very seriously doubt it (though I hope I am wrong).

 

[Lotus-Eater]

What always worries me about situations like this is that I can never escape the feeling that many (most?) politicians involved in the situation are just incompetent. It still strikes me as one of the most bizarre facets of Western democracies that it is generally completely acceptable for politicians to be basically almost untrained in what they are actually doing. There is no specific degree or anything you need to be a politician. You don't need any background in sociology, science or economics, etc. Nothing.

Now take that to situations like these, complex economical issues where there is a huge amount at stake. Do all the people in the House who cast their vote have a solid background in economics? Do they fully understand the situation at hand here? Do they have a strong enough grasp of it to assess the proposal and decide whether it would have a positive or negative effect on the current situation? I very seriously doubt it (though I hope I am wrong).

No no and no...All they need is MONEY...

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

It is pretty fucking pathetic.

 

[Zephyrus]

What about this big plan for the North American Union? Could that be significant to the crisis?

 

[Lotus-Eater]

I really doubt something of the nature would ever come to pass.

 

[The Ozzman]

What about this big plan for the North American Union? Could that be significant to the crisis?

Nothing but a conspiracy theory. I made a post about it on the previous page (or up further on the page, depending on your settings)

 

[Lotus-Eater]

The whole US Government is nothing but a conspiracy theory.

We need a Civil War.......

 

[Never78]

Nothing but a conspiracy theory. I made a post about it on the previous page (or up further on the page, depending on your settings)

You may be right, but the arguments are still pretty compelling:







In any case I never jump to conclusions, but I was surprised to see Ron Paul talking about it.

 

[The Ozzman]

Well, the NAU and the Amero are certainly possible, but the people that are talking about the US Government declaring martial law and exterminating over 300 million people are just ludicrous. There's no incentive to do that.

 

[Zephyrus]

Well imagine if the possible part of the NAU plan is carried out. What would that do for the economy?

 

[The Ozzman]

Well imagine if the possible part of the NAU plan is carried out. What would that do for the economy?

It might make it more stable. Usually, though, if a country uses two types of currency, the effect of inflation isn't as great as only having one currency.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

What always worries me about situations like this is that I can never escape the feeling that many (most?) politicians involved in the situation are just incompetent. It still strikes me as one of the most bizarre facets of Western democracies that it is generally completely acceptable for politicians to be basically almost untrained in what they are actually doing. There is no specific degree or anything you need to be a politician. You don't need any background in sociology, science or economics, etc. Nothing.

Now take that to situations like these, complex economical issues where there is a huge amount at stake. Do all the people in the House who cast their vote have a solid background in economics? Do they fully understand the situation at hand here? Do they have a strong enough grasp of it to assess the proposal and decide whether it would have a positive or negative effect on the current situation? I very seriously doubt it (though I hope I am wrong).

Considering how most politicians who talk about the economy barely even come close to addressing all the major factors of it, I would very seriously doubt their competence as well. Most of the public statements politicians give about the economy are so fucking dumbed-down and simplistic that they might as well be saying "we're going to just throw some money around the country randomly and see what happens". And since the initial bailout proposal here was essentially a blank check to the Secretary of Treasury with no oversight, "throwing money around" is probably a pretty good description of how they often handle things.

So yeah, it's definitely complete bullshit that we don't have education requirements for politicians.

 

[The Ozzman]

So yeah, it's definitely complete bullshit that we don't have education requirements for politicians.

Yeah, make it so certain citizens can't actually be 'representative' of a certain area. Great idea.

There should be a cap on how many terms you can serve in House and Senate positions.

 

[Dak]

Well imagine if the possible part of the NAU plan is carried out. What would that do for the economy?

In a simplified explanation, it takes all the GDP the US lost due to NAFTA and puts it back in the same market as before NAFTA (plus the minor minor gains of original Mexican and Canadian factories). There's no true gain, its an illusion created to get the support of the population for an agreement that merely increases governmental control over the region.
People don't realize your countries capability of production and export are the biggest keys to a strong currency etc. When your GDP drops and you start having a trade deficit you are on the fast-track to being a 2nd class world power which is where the US is gonna be when the dust settles.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Yeah, make it so certain citizens can't actually be 'representative' of a certain area. Great idea.

I'd really like to hear you explain how an education requirement is going to limit people's opportunities to ascend to public office any more than they already are due to the de facto requirements of wealth and connections.

And if you manage to succeed in that, then proceed to explain how the detriment of limiting the opportunities of a few in any way outweighs the huge benefit to society as a whole of having politicians who actually know what they're fucking doing.

 

[The Ozzman]

Well, the whole point behind representatives INITIALLY, was that they would be representative of the people, whether it was a banker, a blacksmith, or whatever. Their education level was irrelevant. Obviously it isn't the case now as money talks, so to speak. I think if there is to be any progress at all in Congress, career politicians need to be eliminate by putting a cap on their term limits

 

[The Ozzman]

In a simplified explanation, it takes all the GDP the US lost due to NAFTA and puts it back in the same market as before NAFTA (plus the minor minor gains of original Mexican and Canadian factories). There's no true gain, its an illusion created to get the support of the population for an agreement that merely increases governmental control over the region.
People don't realize your countries capability of production and export are the biggest keys to a strong currency etc. When your GDP drops and you start having a trade deficit you are on the fast-track to being a 2nd class world power which is where the US is gonna be when the dust settles.

We've had a trade deficit for quite some time

 

[cookiecutter]

What about this big plan for the North American Union? Could that be significant to the crisis?

That's Ron Paul bullshit conspiracy theory. Pay no heed.

What always worries me about situations like this is that I can never escape the feeling that many (most?) politicians involved in the situation are just incompetent. It still strikes me as one of the most bizarre facets of Western democracies that it is generally completely acceptable for politicians to be basically almost untrained in what they are actually doing. There is no specific degree or anything you need to be a politician. You don't need any background in sociology, science or economics, etc. Nothing.

Now take that to situations like these, complex economical issues where there is a huge amount at stake. Do all the people in the House who cast their vote have a solid background in economics? Do they fully understand the situation at hand here? Do they have a strong enough grasp of it to assess the proposal and decide whether it would have a positive or negative effect on the current situation? I very seriously doubt it (though I hope I am wrong).

It would be impractical to have academics as politicians. For one they usual are bad at politics (look at Stephane Dion, leader of the Liberal Party of Canada) and it's hard to devote yourself to being both a scholar and politician. My understanding of how these things work was a prominent member of the community gets elected and he has aides and advisors fill him in on the details of what he doesn't know. A brother of a friend of mine worked as a congressional aide after graduating with a biology degree and working for an environmental consulting firm, so if the politician doesn't know something his aides do/research it.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I don't see how you could make that claim, cookie. The whole point of education is that you know more after going through it than you would if you didn't. I think as long as the education is actually relevant to politics (i.e. not fashion design), it could only serve to make politicians more competent.

It seems to me like every politician should at least have a decent educational background in economics, management, philosophy, and (for the national-level offices) international relations. I'm not saying people should have to get a full degree in each of those, but some certification equivalent to a college minor in each could be feasible for a person.

 

[The Ozzman]

While we're at it, let's have them get graduate degrees in law, political science and finance.

Seriously, it's not going to work that way, Grant. You can't say 'You have to have this degree and these minors in order to be a state representative' because it alienates a huge portion of the population that might actually 'represent' the ideals of a certain part of that specific state/country.