How old were you when you started smoking ?.

[Satanstoenail]

Smoking bans have been passed in a few cities around the U.S. already. New York has had it for a while now, and Philadelphia more recently. Other than those, I don't know any specific cities that have banned smoking indoors, though.

It is already banned in Massachusetts and New York if I remember correctly

Good to hear.

 

[Satanstoenail]

It's a bad law because it creates lost business for all establishments.

That's a pretty short sighted view. The adjustment period here was very short.

 

[The Ozzman]

How?

How many bartenders do you know that complain about smoke in the workplace?

All they complain about is how much business they've lost because of the bans.

That's a pretty short sighted view. The adjustment period here was very short.

Notice how 'here' equals Australia, not the United States and especially not Ohio.

It's not short sighted to me, but I'm pro-business.

I wouldn't mind a ban until a certain time (ex: No smoking in bars until after 10 PM) or something to that effect.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

How many bartenders do you know that complain about smoke in the workplace?

All they complain about is how much business they've lost because of the bans.

Doesn't matter.

Notice how 'here' equals Australia, not the United States and especially not Ohio.

Again, doesn't matter.

 

[The Ozzman]

Doesn't matter.




Again, doesn't matter.

Why and why?

 

[The Ozzman]

That's NYC, Dodens.

There was a big uproar about it, but still, it's one city.

 

[Satanstoenail]

How many bartenders do you know that complain about smoke in the workplace?

All they complain about is how much business they've lost because of the bans.

Rubbish. I've worked in bars and clubs. The non-smoking staff complained all the time.

Notice how 'here' equals Australia, not the United States and especially not Ohio.

It's not short sighted to me, but I'm pro-business.

Why will the USA be so different?

 

[The Ozzman]

Rubbish. I've worked in bars and clubs. The non-smoking staff complained all the time.

Maybe in Aussie Land.

Come to Ohio sometime. It is way different here.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Maybe in Aussie Land.

Come to Ohio sometime. It is way different here.

You still haven't explained how or why, or what you're basing this opinion on. Australia and America are very similar in a lot of ways.

 

[The Ozzman]

You still haven't explained how or why, or what you're basing this opinion on. Australia and America are very similar in a lot of ways.

Yeah, I've never been to Aussie land. I was just making an assumption.

Everywhere I go here, every bartender I've spoken to doesn't care about the smoking ban. I don't even know if half these bartenders smoke anyway. One guy from Pennsylvania was visiting Cincinnati for some reason and he was sitting at the bar complaining about how people were smoking inside the bar when it was banned. The bartender just laughed at him and said 'There's the sign with the number to report violations. If you have a problem, call it. I sure as hell don't have a problem with people smoking in here.'

It is a completely different environment in this city in terms of the smoking ban.

 

[The Ozzman]

So that means it shouldn't exist?

Well, I personally don't think the smoking ban should exist (at least not in its current form). Some people apparently wanted the ban since it was voted on in the state. If they revised the terms of the smoking ban, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

I have a problem with it being banned in bars, not workplaces or restaurants though.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

Why and why?

First why: Just because many of them don't complain doesn't mean it's a non-issue. And if it hurts their business, they need to adapt. That's the way it works. Having health and labor regulations hurts business. It's their responsibility to adapt to the changes.

Second why: Are you suggesting that Australians possess an ability to adjust to change that Americans don't? There is/ was an uproar in Ohio just as there was in Philadelphia. Somehow the economy had managed to survive.

 

[The Ozzman]

First why: Just because many of them don't complain doesn't mean it's a non-issue. And if it hurts their business, they need to adapt. That's the way it works. Having health and labor regulations hurts business. It's their responsibility to adapt to the changes.

Second why: Are you suggesting that Australians possess an ability to adjust to change that Americans don't? There is/ was an uproar in Ohio just as there was in Philadelphia. Somehow the economy had managed to survive.

1) The government's original responsibility was to not impede in certain affairs of businesses. Obviously that isn't the case now and the government (and country) is a shadow of its former self

2) I wasn't trying to suggest that, but maybe I did. That wasn't my intention. You can't speak for every municipality unless you've interacted in them. The attitude on the smoking ban here in Cincy is way different from anything you've ever seen regarding the ban itself.

Bottom line: The ban isn't fair because it doesn't let the business owners have a say in this. Even if the voters in this state did get this passed, it still isn't fair to a good number of people.

 

[Έρεβος]

I don't see any legitimate reason to smoke cigarettes, but if people want to do it, fine.

Enjoyment, stress release, creative inspiration, concentration, relaxation.

Are those illegitimate?

As for second hand smoke, anyone with healthy lungs is at practically no risk from second hand cigarettes smoke. Even smoking lightly (one or two cigarettes a day) only has a very mildly negative effect on health. The negative effects of cigarette smoke (and practically every drug in existence, except Prozak) are blown up a thousand times greater than is the actual reality.

 

[The Heartbreak Kid]

Its true.

 

[entanglement]

Creative inspiration?

?

 

[Crimson Velvet]

And your whole "No-one's forcing you to go where there's smoking" argument is also bullshit.

That was in response to the 'no one's forcing you to smoke' argument. It was exactly the same logic utilized, and following that line of thought, it's quite undisputable.

Who's the juvenile one: The guy saying "I shouldn't have to alter go out of my way to avoid smoke. Smokers, since there is NO NEED to smoke anywhere, should be the ones who are inconvinienced" or the one saying "Well if you want to breath without inhaling toxins you should go somewhere else or just get used to it, even though you don't need to". I think it's pretty obvious that it's you who is being unreasonable.

Actually, you are the one who wants to change the status quo in order to better serve your own wommanly needs. I am merely saying, suck it up or stay at home.

Go fuck yourself, you Euro-trash cock sucking piece of shit. Calling someone a "wuss" is some pretty third grade bullshit.

It's merely a observation based on what is generally considered to be 'wussy' around here, all based on something completely substantial. And I'll take that first part as a compliment, coming from a iron-less little hillbilly boy like yourself.

If it's such a fucking trifle, why can't smokers just take their shit outside? By your logic, they really need to grow a pair if they can't get up and walk outside for a minute. Are smokers really so hopelessly addicted to cigarettes that, rather than smoke outdoors, they simply deny that it is harmful and irritating to others.

Around here, that is how it generally (used to) work (there's a ban now). If the smokers were outnumbered, they'd be considerate if it's not ridiculously cold, and vice versa. No one I knew were bloody cry babies about it.

As for second hand smoke, anyone with healthy lungs is at practically no risk from second hand cigarettes smoke.

This is true. The absolute majority of people who suffer from secondhand smoking are people who live with heavy smokers.

 

[Έρεβος]

What a fucking crock of shit. The amount of research that has been done on smoking that proves it to be harmful is staggering. So because people have become more educated and informed about the dangers of smoking and don't want to be around it, that makes them "unmanly"? Fuck off.

And your whole "No-one's forcing you to go where there's smoking" argument is also bullshit. In most countries, smoking is allowed in EVERY pub, bar & club. What if I want to go see a band? Oh, fuck they allow smoking in band venues, oh well. I just wont go see bands anymore. This is fucked, and I'm mighty glad they've changed the law here. Watching the smokers huddled together out in the freezing cold is great revenge for all the times I've come home with red eyes, reeking of cigarette smoke and coughing.

"Amount of research" is inconsequential. Drugs are a huge taboo in our society, hence there are thousands of studies with the sole intent of showing them unhealthy. Obviously this is an incredibly intellectually dishonest way of studying anything.

Cigarettes are obviously damaging to smokers' health, but no-where near to the level media tries to portray them. A very small percentage of heavy smokers EVER develop a life-threatening or disabling ailment, and an infinitesimal percentage of light smokers EVER develop any ailment. And second-hand smoke is far less damaging than light smoking.

All-in-all, cigarette smoke truly has much less to do with any of the diseases associated with it than simply taking care of yourself (as most people fail horridly to do today). People smoking around others are not increasing the danger of ailment in any real way; rather, people not taking care of their bodies and then being around cigarette smoke are opening the door to death. I smoke (both clove cigarettes lightly and pot heavily) and my lungs are in nearly perfect condition (better than nearly all my non-smoking family), due to exercising and maintaining a basic healthy lifestyle.

So quit bitching and start running; you'll be perfectly safe around smoke then.

 

[Έρεβος]

Creative inspiration?

?

Yes. Nicotine can put you in a highly reflective and creative mood. Ever watched a sunset or the stars smoking cloves? Little compares.

 

[Έρεβος]

The problem with that is, everyone needs to breath. No one needs to smoke, and many people choose not to smoke at all. Why should the one making the choice to smoke drive away those who don't wish to smoke?

Actually, no-one "needs" to breathe. They could just die. In the same way, no-one "needs" to smoke or do anything else risky yet enjoyable. They could just never live. Same fucking thing.