How to be a Black Metal Fan in 2005

infoterror

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Apr 17, 2005
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How to be a Black Metal Fan in 2005
Don't Listen to Black Metal

Black metal as a community has grown exponentially since it emerged as a musical style in its own right in the early 1990s. Like a new civilization, it grew from a small group of innovators who were disgusted by the "jogging suit" mentality: people who were essentially products of a modern time, who blindly bleated its ideas, figuring out how to play death metal and becoming popular in the genre by making their music more like what audiences accustomed to rock music expected. In essence, the crowd had infested death metal as it had speed metal before that, and black metal was a response to this.

Recognizing that no matter how they dressed up the music as something "new," appearances could be cloned, black metal musicians decided to go where the crowd could not follow: they would write music that expressed a grandeur of nature and feral amorality, hearkening more to the values of Samurai or European knights than to the disposable ideals of modern time. Since such a topic requires music that infuses the listener with a sense of awe and beauty in the cycle of destruction and creation that renders our world, they could no longer rely on "three chords and the truth," but had to actually put the truth in the music, and write more poetic and complex songs.

"Complexity" is a difficult term here, because it can be made into aesthetic as well; almost every failed progressive rock band in the universe has done this, by adding fills and "technical" parts that contribute little to the music as a whole. "Truth" is a difficult term because Ani DiFranco thinks she has truth and that it's in her lyrics, which she puts over entirely forgettable lyrics - don't mention to her that, to a philosopher, the ideals she espouses are no different than what George Bush rants about in his spacy speeches.

Black metal took a new direction and put the truth into the music, independent of lyrics, making sweeping mini-symphonies which covered a range of emotions and brought the listener from alienation to a unity with nature. An alert reader might note that almost all poetry does the same, by finding mundane details and abstracting them to higher principles, then translating them into an experience which narrates the reader from an initial position to a sense of having learned something and, more importantly, having learned to appreciate it. "Political" music like Ani DiFranco and Napalm Death can't do that for you.

The small civilization within civilization that was black metal was united more by ideals than by aesthetic or musical tenets, although all of its music by aiming to express the same kind of idea had similarities, mainly in its use of poetic complexity and truth within the music (and not necessarily the lyrics; you listen to black metal, and because of its intense artistry, find truth there). Because even educated and thoughtful people are brick-stupid these days, since they're surrounded by infinite voices repeating the same few ideas in many different forms, here are the basic ideas of black metal:

1. Nature as supreme order, where nature like thought is a process of evolution whereby a proliferation of ideas are filtered down by their adaptation to reality as a whole. Many potential designs start out, and those that match their surroundings the best persist.

2. Thought and ideal as more important than physicality. Like the values of knights, of Mahatma Gandhi and Jesus Christ as well as Adolf Hitler, black metal musicians saw it as more important that a functional order geared toward higher evolution persist on earth. They cared at a distant second place how many lives were lost, or what pains were endured, and were primarily concerned that better ideas - forms of organization, designs, personal ideals - endured over the lesser ideas, generally construed as materialism and Judeo-Christian morality, in which loss of life is terrible no matter what is achieved.

3. Introspection. In black metal lore, the only meaning comes from what the individual can interpret; there are no boundaries between individuals and the world (nature) as whole, but the individual can only perceive what he or she can through natural abilities and learning from experience. Not everyone can see all of the truth; we all get it in degrees, but what is most important in black metal is the individual inspecting him or herself for internal values and finding a way to connect these to the world. It's the exact opposite of "if it feels good, do it" rhetoric from the rock-n-roll crowd and American politicians.

4. Morbidity as not only important, but essential, and a giver of meaning. Where most view death paranoiacally, and see it as a great entropy removing all value, black metal musicians viewed it as something giving meaning to life. That we die means we must find value in life (see point 3) and must do that which is rewarding not just to our physical selves, but to our unique and ephemeral souls (see point 2).

5. Nationalism. Racism is a preference for one race above all others, worldwide. Nationalism is pride in one's country, and its native ethnicity, language and culture. Nationalism is a subset of naturalism because, much as one appreciates the diversity of species on earth, one appreciates the diversity of humans and wishes to preserve that by isolating nations from one another. Some black metal musicians are racist, and others not, but all agreed that ethnic separation was necessary for the preservation of their native lands.

6. Holistic morality and spirituality. In Judeo-Christian spirituality, the center of belief is the relationship between the individual and God, and anyone can have it. In ancient faiths, the gods were impersonal and nonjudgmental, and the individual forged a path through life based on the upholding of higher ideals and understanding nature. Judeo-Christian spirituality is a product; ancient faiths are esoteric and little more than elaborate forms of philosophical learning and martial discipline. Occultist, Satanist, Hindu, Nordic and Greco-Roman mythological references abound in black metal.

To any student of European history or art, these values are not new; they are traditional to all Romantic forms of art, whether literature or visual art or symphonies, and were upheld by artists as disparate as William Wordsworth, Anton Bruckner, John Keats, Ludwig van Beethoven, Richard Wagner, Lord Byron and William Shakespeare. For all of these artists, nature was a higher form of order than the rules of civilization, and civilization had become decadent by praising its own "equal" order more than the "unequal" order of nature. Many philosophers, including the celebrated F.W. Nietzsche and Arthur Schopenhauer, explicated these sentiments in their own work. Black metal's ideology is nothing new.

What was new was an expression of these ideas in popular music, because rock music and blues and all of the associated disposable art has always been a manifestation of the crowd revolt mentality: simple music so that everyone in a room could get it, diametrically opposed to the grand works of classical music which were too complex and emotionally involved for a crowd to appreciate (or even to have the attention span to endure). Rock music focuses on one emotion per song, bangs it out in riff and chorus, and makes it very simple by using a relatively fixed number of scales and chord progressions. Rock music is the perfect product because it's easy to make, is appreciated by customers of all ages and not limited by intelligence, and is inoffensive on a certain level in that it has nothing to say that will disturb. The basic message of rock music is to include everyone equally, to appreciate them for being alive and not for their inherent traits, and to come together on simple human values and not higher ideals; rock is inclusivity. Black metal is not.

The "jogging suit" people who infested death metal, a genre devoted to the nihilism of recognizing that death alone is predominant so we, and not our products or warm fuzzy feelings, must define the meaning of life for our mortal selves, were an offshoot of this inclusive impulse of modern music. When death metal was new (1983-1987) it was exclusively an embrace of the light to be found at the other side of this dark tunnel, which is that when one gets over the fear of death that unites modern society, one can return to that which is more important than material comfort or popularity: ideals, nature and real experience. Where black metal was pure Romanticism, death metal was a form of scientific existentialism bonded to a brawler's resentment of those given positions because of their obsequious acceptance of the moronic logic that is popular.

When black metal emerged, it was ridiculed, mocked, hated, and excluded from popularity in metal circles. From 1990-1993, it was hard to find anyone who even thought it had artistic merit: it was simply unpopular, in part because it did not embrace the root of all popularity from movie stars to politicians to drug dealers, which is an inclusiveness that says anyone who comes in the door and appreciates a simple experience is one of the crowd, one of the in-group that then defines itself as important to civilization. After the events in Norway, involving burning churches and murders, black metal was suddenly popular because it suggested there was an "other side" and, the crowd reasoned, by buying CDs they could be part of it.

Much as civilizations are started by a brave few and later, when following generations lose their sense of ruthless struggle against disorder so that civilization can be created, degenerate into societies where popularity and luxury are more important than truth, black metal fell apart shortly after that because of the invasion of the crowd. Suddenly a band like Cradle of Filth, who are basically a bad Iron Maiden cover band playing fast heavy metal with black metal vocals, could be vastly popular and introduce hundreds of thousands of people to the new genre. And they came, expecting more bands like Cradle of Filth, and buying them, and thus drowning out the few bands of merit. If you became a black metal musician, there was no longer safe haven from the crowd, and thus you had a choice between making traditional black metal and being ignored, or making Cradle of Filth style heavy rock and getting rich. The original bands cracked under the pressure, and broke up or sold out, and the newcomers came in.

The average black metal fan today has not heard the formative works of the genre: Immortal, Emperor, Burzum, Gorgoroth, Enslaved, Darkthrone, Beherit and Varathron when they were making essential, complex, beautiful music. All they've heard are the newcomers, both of the blatantly commercial Cradle of Filth variety, and the scene whore "loud, fast and antisocial" type of band that Black Witchery represents. The newcomers are uniformly worthless, as they express nothing that rock music does not, and by giving it an extreme aesthetic, allow their fans to convince themselves that they are "part of" some movement against the dominant trend of society, even though much like Democrats and Republicans in America agree on the same core values, newcomer "black metal" repeats the same empty rhetoric that rock music has been feeding us for fifty years. Newcomer black metal is black metal only in the world of appearance; in terms of musical and artistic structure, it's closer to punk rock or even Dave Matthews Band. It's rock music.

The aesthetic of black metal is easy to clone. Put screeching vocals, midtone guitars, fast drums and heavy distortion on top of fast rock music, and it "sounds like" black metal, even if the dumbest fan can see that somehow it misses the vastness and emotional depth of Det Som Engang Var or In the Nightside Eclipse. The structure of art - its Romanticism, its poetry, its depth - eludes those who clone black metal. And, as we see in hindsight, the original black metal bands like the original death metal bands were not a natural thing, but an aberration in a steady stream of bands that have been cloning the same ideas since early rock'n'roll. Black metal and early death metal were the exception, not the rule.

What we have now is not black metal, although it calls itself "black metal," in the same way that rock music will never be a symphony even if it calls itself so. I tend to refer to the mainstream stuff like Six Feet Under or Cradle of Filth as "heavy metal," since musically it's closer to Motorhead and Led Zeppelin than death or black metal; I tend to refer to the "underground" black metal like Black Witchery or Velvet Caccoon as "black hardcore," since musically it resembles late model hardcore music with black metal aesthetics. None of this is black metal.

Ideals of black metal clones:

1. Everyone must get it. It must be simple, not challenging, and most of all not have any poetic essence to its soul, as most fans can't get that and thus will not buy it.

2. Appearance over structure. It must have a unique appearance, but say the same old things philosophically and use familiar musical ideas so that even the dumbest fans can understand it and buy it. Even more, it must be upheld as dogma truth that adding a flute or screeching spotted owl to the same old music somehow makes it "unique" and worth owning.

3. Simplistic emotions are important. Forget the depth of "Inno A Satana"; blindly praise Satan with roaring, consistent anger, because that way every fan, even the ones with Down's Syndrome, can get what it's about and get into it. Start a big singular emotion party, and make it simple so everyone can buy the CD and come along.

4. Everyone can get it. Black metal clones are not specific to a certain land or belief system, as they are essentially musically the same and are designed so that even a retarded outer space alien could "get it" and start tapping its feet and wearing Darkthrone-brand jogging suits immediately. Nationalism, even elitism, eugenics or belief in anything at all is out; what's in is having some music that sounds angry, is written like punk rock, and can be appreciated by everyone so they can buy the CDs or praise the "underground" scene queens who created it.

The problem with black metal now is that fans, out of a desire to have something contemporary, are buying and praising the mediocre music of right now and thus are diluting any distinctiveness black metal ever had, slowly turning the genre as a community and art form into the same ol' rock music. They are misinformed, or uniformed, and therefore buy the best of what they can find and try to pretend they like it, but even a crowd of uneducated fans can sense that it is empty, so they try buying more and more of it, and going for novelty factors like location or obscurity, but still cannot find the essence of black metal and what made it great. That is because quite simply it is not made anymore; a musician looking at today's black metal scene will recognize quickly that the competition is for novelty and not for quality art, and thus will take his or her skills elsewhere. Black metal is now a trend.

My suggestion to all those who love black metal is simple: stop supporting band that are OK instead of great. If that means there's no black metal that's new to listen to, then accept that like a warrior, and listen to the older stuff or branch out into different genres. Uphold black metal in spirit and not by buying mediocre products that are a cancer eating away at whatever legitimacy the genre once had. If you really care about black metal, you care more about its ideas than your own comfortable existence of buying lots of little CDs so you have something to gossip about with your little friends. To want to understand and care about black metal is to care about its spirit, not the disposable art that now dresses itself up in black metal's appearance. You might even explore other Romantic art instead. The path is clear: you either support black metal's "life" as a mediocre rock genre, or you encourage the mediocre music to die so black metal can be reborn from within, when the intangible elements such as poetry and musical quality once again predominate. Until that happens, black metal will continue to be absorbed the same generic stuff that its creators hated.

http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/blackmetal/
 
interesting read, thanks for posting

I do have all the classic BM mentioned there, but I wonder if the quality in terms of "truth in the music" or whatever you want to call it, is really gone with current bands. Maybe there are recommendations?
 
Some black metal musicians are racist, and others not, but all agreed that ethnic separation was necessary for the preservation of their native lands.
Nope. If an analysis of the genre's ideological cornerstones includes putting words that weren't there in the mouth of some of its most innovative musicians, the analysis is flawed.

Good article, though.
 
Erik said:
Nope. If an analysis of the genre's ideological cornerstones includes putting words that weren't there in the mouth of some of its most innovative musicians, the analysis is flawed.

Point out the exceptions, please.
 
Alwin said:
I do have all the classic BM mentioned there, but I wonder if the quality in terms of "truth in the music" or whatever you want to call it, is really gone with current bands. Maybe there are recommendations?

I am fond of Averse Sefira and Demoncy, of the current bands, but beyond that, there is not much that has endured.

Some like Watain.
 
Infoterror, I must admit that I do not have enough interest in topic to read whole of your post, but tell me something: Do you really think that more than 0.001% (or probably even less) of BM fans or artists was ever going that far in thinking and analysing this subgenre? This is just a cool music and image for most of people, including musicians playing it, not some kind of philosophycal approach to life (or death, LoL). On the other hand, I have met some people taking this shit serious, but they looked and talked like they should be sent to psychotherapist immidiately.

It is easy to find deep meaning in anything that touches and moves us, but that does not means that source of sensation is anything that deep and special by itself. Source of that feeling and inspiration is within us. Of couse, we can later rationalize, and write a book about the source, as is often the case, projecting our innerself on object tha caused this experiences.
 
Dushan S, I'm wondering how familar you actually are with black metal and the concept behind it. Black metal was originally created as a revolt against commercialised death metal, and unlike nearly every other genre, actually had some concept to it. The bands that you seem to be referring to come in later on as a part of trend, and do things like satan worshipping and national socialism for the image and further propagation in the scene.

If you like your music mindless, pointless and generic then keep listening to whatever new metal rehash comes out. You're only screwing up the opportunities for bands with real talent and concept to shine.
 
Well, as a fan of BM I can say I see the point he was trying to make.

However, I'm going to pause and say that this is the first article by our resident infoterror that I consider to be truly impressive. Good work. You've certainly got the point in spirit.
 
Infoterror is an excellent writer. Which makes me wonder why he wastes his time here, when he could be using his skills elsewhere.
 
10293847 said:
Infoterror is an excellent writer. Which makes me wonder why he wastes his time here, when he could be using his skills elsewhere.

I am sure he writes and posts these articles on and for the anus website. You know, just a few years ago, Prozak's writing was atrocious. He wrote in a horrific Heidegger'esque style and used words that were totally unneeded and irrelevant, but were employed due to their obscure or difficult nature.

Now, he does write quite well. However, just like Joseph de Maistre, he is best on the attack, not in defense or creation.
 
Excellent article.

I know I might sound elitist but the sight of these plankton in CoF shirts makes my blood boil. They have no knowledge on the history of the genre and have no comprehension on the philosophy of the music or its makers. Even worse, they have no intention of investigating in order to broaden the philosophical, political or musical knowledge or their intellect.

A 14 yr old kid listening to Burzum will not hear why Varg's vocal work holds such beauty, why his screams speak of resistance against the world's trends and genuinely so. Nor will they see the Viking passions and visions of Grutle Kjellsons growls in Eld, or the arrival of ships on bloodied shores within Quorthon's music.

I have always viewed metal, as with Western Art Music, a form of music for the educated, civilised, passionate and intuitive listener. That black metal is infiltrated and corrupted by sheep, and becoming a formula is sad. It is indeed for the most part losing its identity, however, deep beneath the surface, few bands still create their art in true form.

NP: BURZUM: Dunkelheit
 
Birkenau said:
Dushan S, I'm wondering how familar you actually are with black metal and the concept behind it. Black metal was originally created as a revolt against commercialised death metal, and unlike nearly every other genre, actually had some concept to it. The bands that you seem to be referring to come in later on as a part of trend, and do things like satan worshipping and national socialism for the image and further propagation in the scene.

If you like your music mindless, pointless and generic then keep listening to whatever new metal rehash comes out. You're only screwing up the opportunities for bands with real talent and concept to shine.
Sometimes when someone is into one subgenre of the subgenre of music as a whole, he losses his perspective, and starts giving too much importance to something that maybe is not THAT much serious and deep, at least not for a lot of musicians that are into it. Especially, I have noticed that fans of smaller subgenres of metal have generally more closed minds than musicians playing the same subgenre, and tend to be more serious about it then their idols. On the other hand, artists have to play the game, because, big part of their success depends on the image they create. Fans expect of them to have certain kind of video, to see certain things at concert, to hear certain things from them when interviewed. So as some mainstream artist have to tell some kind of bullshit to be accepted, room for manouverability for extreme metal artists is small in the same way, they have to do some things or they will be uncool. There is certain image someone could call describe as " I am so cool natural and relaxed. I am having fun with other boys, I am not pretending anything. There is no pose, look, I am truthfull, I dress and behave the same way as you, our fans. Love us, buy our records"
Or maybe "ooooo how evil I am, I can gete erection only if I fuck covered with goats blood in pentagram, on the graveyard at night. I have 13 black cats in haunted house where I live. I am so Tr00!"
So when the spotlite is on you, no matter what you do, you are acting, even when you don't want, and that is a fact with 95% of people in the bussiness, no matter what genre there is. There is no room for an extreme metal bend to incorporate anything else in their music than what is expected from them. Make a little change, add some melody, or shoot nice wideo, and everyone may start point at you as sellout" I mean, fans can be really stupid and one way thinking, to the point of absurd. Every time you make more radicall change, you may shoot your career in a foot. On the other hand if you do not change anything, you have almost no chance to make it, because you are same as everyone else. And so on, you got the idea. (and then someone points out that metal is half dead genre, wonder why)
So, all things come to another level when someone starts giving philosophycal deep message and importance to the subgenre, making something truly special of it. Well, that is not really true. Music as a whole changes, grows, lives, dies and then rises again in different form, this was same for blues and jazz, it is same for death or black metal. Not much more philosophy than that. So what the guy was writing in his first post may be true in a way, but it is general tendecy, not strictly tied to one small subgenre. New music evolves from something, changes, than becomes accepted, then becomes dead, or mixes with different styles, and then comes again later but in different form, changed, and so on. So no use for a rant, it is just a natural part of the evolution

Naturaly, this is metal forum, more extreme metal forum actually, and someone would expect that people are looking metal under magnifying glass, so I am not bashing first post, just think that it is a bit narrowminded, and I am kind of pointing that there is magnifying glass that makes small things look big.

As far my music tastes go (as you have mentioned them), I find that if you are really into music and musicianship, what it askes of you is to have no other music taste but differentiating quality music from bad, no matter what genre it is, pop, electro, extreme metal, jazz or ethno. I don't want to be caged inside some small musical space. (naturally I do have my favorites, but I am aware that something can be good even if I don't like it or get it) Putting one music genre into "no no zone" and bashing validity of all music in that genre is most of the times sign of immaturity.
 
Birkenau said:
Black metal was originally created as a revolt against commercialised death metal, and unlike nearly every other genre, actually had some concept to it.

if that is true, it is quite ridiculous...was that the concept? that is juvenile. its music, lighten up! so was it the result of 14 year olds ranting "sell-out!" then they grew up and proudly exclaimed, "we are troo."

well, now we have bands like dimmu and cradle of filth who have been played on mtv. a lot of kids say the same thing...will there be another revolt?
 
Read any interviews with Varg Vikernes and you'll see that yes, Black Metal was a revolt against commericalised Death Metal. Hence even the high pitched shrieks, totally opposite of DM, the deliberate under-production, and so on. All these things are deliberate, designed to revolt against anything acceptable and loved by the general public.

The concept was to be "tr00", to be anti-everything, including anti-Christian, but not in the concept of being satanic, as this too is a form or by product of Christianity, hence the concentration of Norse mythology in Black Metal. A true revolt against the masses through music.
 
The Hubster said:
Read any interviews with Varg Vikernes and you'll see that yes, Black Metal was a revolt against commericalised Death Metal. Hence even the high pitched shrieks, totally opposite of DM, the deliberate under-production, and so on. All these things are deliberate, designed to revolt against anything acceptable and loved by the general public.

The concept was to be "tr00", to be anti-everything, including anti-Christian, but not in the concept of being satanic, as this too is a form or by product of Christianity, hence the concentration of Norse mythology in Black Metal. A true revolt against the masses through music.

well, regardless of that concept...the result was some good music. in the end, that is what counts.
 
JoeVice said:
well, regardless of that concept...the result was some good music. in the end, that is what counts.

I totally agree.

However, unfortunate that that violence and extremism through politics and religion needed to be the ingredients to create such aural beauty as what Black Metal is.

Then again, Christian and political extremism has done it before in other ways through Renaissance, Baroque, Classical and Romantic styles in ages past, both in music and in art forms.
 
if i've never heard a song before i'll listen to it
if i like what i hear then i'll listen to it again
if i don't like what i hear i won't listen to it again
why the fucking hell does music have to be more complicated than this???
 
Because the music you may like might be of a guy who is saying through that music that he wants you dead. It's not complicated really. Music is an ideological expression and a transfer of experience. It's been like that from the beginning of it. Unless you're in for consumption of products in the form of music... and really like replication of experience rendered harmless. Sth. like going at the zoo and pretending to see the real animal...
 
Dushan S said:
Sometimes when someone is into one subgenre of the subgenre of music as a whole, he losses his perspective, and starts giving too much importance to something that maybe is not THAT much serious and deep, at least not for a lot of musicians that are into it. Especially, I have noticed that fans of smaller subgenres of metal have generally more closed minds than musicians playing the same subgenre, and tend to be more serious about it then their idols. On the other hand, artists have to play the game, because, big part of their success depends on the image they create. Fans expect of them to have certain kind of video, to see certain things at concert, to hear certain things from them when interviewed. So as some mainstream artist have to tell some kind of bullshit to be accepted, room for manouverability for extreme metal artists is small in the same way, they have to do some things or they will be uncool. There is certain image someone could call describe as " I am so cool natural and relaxed. I am having fun with other boys, I am not pretending anything. There is no pose, look, I am truthfull, I dress and behave the same way as you, our fans. Love us, buy our records"
Or maybe "ooooo how evil I am, I can gete erection only if I fuck covered with goats blood in pentagram, on the graveyard at night. I have 13 black cats in haunted house where I live. I am so Tr00!"
So when the spotlite is on you, no matter what you do, you are acting, even when you don't want, and that is a fact with 95% of people in the bussiness, no matter what genre there is. There is no room for an extreme metal bend to incorporate anything else in their music than what is expected from them. Make a little change, add some melody, or shoot nice wideo, and everyone may start point at you as sellout" I mean, fans can be really stupid and one way thinking, to the point of absurd. Every time you make more radicall change, you may shoot your career in a foot. On the other hand if you do not change anything, you have almost no chance to make it, because you are same as everyone else. And so on, you got the idea. (and then someone points out that metal is half dead genre, wonder why)
So, all things come to another level when someone starts giving philosophycal deep message and importance to the subgenre, making something truly special of it. Well, that is not really true. Music as a whole changes, grows, lives, dies and then rises again in different form, this was same for blues and jazz, it is same for death or black metal. Not much more philosophy than that. So what the guy was writing in his first post may be true in a way, but it is general tendecy, not strictly tied to one small subgenre. New music evolves from something, changes, than becomes accepted, then becomes dead, or mixes with different styles, and then comes again later but in different form, changed, and so on. So no use for a rant, it is just a natural part of the evolution

Naturaly, this is metal forum, more extreme metal forum actually, and someone would expect that people are looking metal under magnifying glass, so I am not bashing first post, just think that it is a bit narrowminded, and I am kind of pointing that there is magnifying glass that makes small things look big.

As far my music tastes go (as you have mentioned them), I find that if you are really into music and musicianship, what it askes of you is to have no other music taste but differentiating quality music from bad, no matter what genre it is, pop, electro, extreme metal, jazz or ethno. I don't want to be caged inside some small musical space. (naturally I do have my favorites, but I am aware that something can be good even if I don't like it or get it) Putting one music genre into "no no zone" and bashing validity of all music in that genre is most of the times sign of immaturity.
You know, I could have summed up that whole incoherent essay in two sentences. People are afraid of their bands changing and the bands are afraid of losing some of their fanbase. Denying a genre is ignorant and immature.

You seem to be losing the point infoterror was trying to make, how can bands evolve or further a genre when there's 10 million carbon copy bands out there selling off a 10 year old product? Imagine how many Bathorys or Burzums are being lost in the mix of all these other bands, because people keep supporting the mediocre, the real progressive bands get lost in the crowd.

As for your second point, how is it ignorant to not listen to a genre if it's blatantly crap? I wouldn't listen to rap music because it's poor and has no common values that I can appreciate. If you had the choice of building a house out of either sticks or bricks, which one would you chose? I'd chose bricks, by your logic this would be seen as 'ignorant' and 'immature'.