I don't get it

[Yippee38]

News article

I want to know why the person who called 911 wasn't charged with criminal negligence.

How could you not try to stop the guy? WTF? Ok. You might get stabbed, but it's likely you'd survive. If you didn't do anything though, you'd have to live with knowing that maybe you both could be alive, but you did nothing. Not only that, but the other people who were there RAN AWAY! They will probably never even feel an ounce of guilt.

 

[nailz]

My mother spent 10 years working in the psyche ward in a hospital. You do not fuck with crazy people if you're not trained to, no matter what they're doing. Fuck that. Horrible situation? Sure. But at some point, your own survival instincts tell you to run like fuck when someone is just cutting off someone elses head for no reason other than "it's on her neck".

 

[Prog_Please]

How could you not try to stop the guy? WTF? Ok. You might get stabbed, but it's likely you'd survive. If you didn't do anything though, you'd have to live with knowing that maybe you both could be alive, but you did nothing. Not only that, but the other people who were there RAN AWAY! They will probably never even feel an ounce of guilt.

You might get stabbed? The guy was chopping someone's head off! If I was there, I'd shit my pants, then run for the door. Then probably shit my pants again once I got home. Reminds me of that incident on that bus where someone chopped a fellow bus passenger's head off. I think that was in Canada though...

 

[freakchylde]

WTF? The least a group of guys could have done, was stop him from cutting off her head. But noooooooooooooooooo let's all run away while she sits there and feels every stroke of that blade till she suffocates on her own blood or passes out from pain. *facepalm*

Sometimes, I hate my fellow countrymen.

 

[Yippee38]

WTF? The least a group of guys could have done, was stop him from cutting off her head. But noooooooooooooooooo let's all run away while she sits there and feels every stroke of that blade till she suffocates on her own blood or passes out from pain. *facepalm*

I'm thinking there's one guy. He's pinning down a girl while he cuts her head off with a knife. So that means his arms and legs are busy. So tackle him off of her, then run. That gives her a chance. Come up behind him and put him in a full-nelson hold. At least that would give the girl time to get away.

You're right though. Multiple people could just grab him and take the knife away. I don't care if he's crazy, it's a knife!

Survival instinct? The guy is busy chopping a girls head off with a kitchen knife. That's got to take a while. You've got time to think. You've got time to decide if you want to live in the type of world where people like you let people like him cut other people's head off. I'm not saying you should get him to cut your head off. I'm saying knock him off of her so she has a chance to get away. Run away? WTF? He's obviously no threat to you while he's working on her.

 

[booB]

I can see one person being too scared to take action, especially if the guy was much bigger than him. However, the herd mentality of the other cafe people who ran away is just further proof that human beings in groups are worthless sacks of shit. Surely three or four people could have stopped this from happening.

 

[Orion Crystal Ice]

disturbing.


> human race

 

[lady_space]

I certainly wouldn't have tried to tackle him so I'm not going to be too harsh on anyone else who didn't. I might've started throwing shit at him or something to distract him, but seriously, tackle a knife-wielding maniac by myself? I don't think so. A concerted effort by 3 or 4 people *might've* helped, but again... I wasn't there and have never been in a situation like that. I don't know what I would've done.

Anyone surprised by this hasn't been watching the human race for the past 20 or 30 years though. How many rapes, beatings, etc., take place within others' sight that no one does a goddamned thing about? Things that could much more easily be intrerrupted.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Concealed carry would have been an asset here.
(legally or ilegally)

At what point does one decide to NOT try and help out the victim in this situation? Yep, I'd rather have backup, but even if I had to act alone, I would have made an effort to stop this. Then, I probably would have shit my pants! :zombie:

 

[jaimek]

I don't know. I've been in a situation where a crazy dude who was completely souped up on drugs came into my store carrying an eight inch chopping knife. Fortunately for us, he was living in his own head and didn't even acknowledge anyone's existence while he ran around the store trying to find a way out (he clearly thought someone was chasing him), but if he had attacked someone with that knife? I can't say whether or not the rest of us would have done something out of fear for our own lives, as he was a good 6'2, young, and well-built, and all but one of the six of us in the store were women (and one of them had a baby with her). I'd like to imagine we would have *tried*, but it's easy to definitively say you would put yourself at risk until you've been there.

 

[freakchylde]

Anyone surprised by this hasn't been watching the human race for the past 20 or 30 years though. How many rapes, beatings, etc., take place within others' sight that no one does a goddamned thing about? Things that could much more easily be intrerrupted.

Yeah, the recent rape up in NY, where the poor girl ran for help and the result was transit employees pushing a button. She was raped twice on the platform before police arrived (and yes, based on her own descriptions, I personally think even she could have done more).

That said, I think people should put more thought into personal defense, with a weapon or otherwise. Because this underscores the fact that you will never know when you on your own.

 

[OrbWeaver]

I have to laugh at how easy some of you are making this seem. In a high emotion situation, most average people will NOT be thinking clearly, especially not nearly enough to concert an effort to put a stop to such violence. When fight or flight kicks in, most people run like hell, unless cornered. It's so easy to sit at your computer and say "Well I would have helped!" But it's different when you're actually there.

 

[freakchylde]

I have to laugh at how easy some of you are making this seem. In a high emotion situation, most average people will NOT be thinking clearly, especially not nearly enough to concert an effort to put a stop to such violence. When fight or flight kicks in, most people run like hell, unless cornered. It's so easy to sit at your computer and say "Well I would have helped!" But it's different when you're actually there.

Agreed, but I'm hard hit to believe that EVERYONE in there is of the flight mentality, as well as EVERYONE on the street nearby. That said, I can't speak for everyone here, but I can speak for myself. No, not easy, but the choice I would have made and I train to make, is to help the person being attacked in anyway possible, outside of waiting for the police.

 

[nailz]

I don't know. I've been in a situation where a crazy dude who was completely souped up on drugs came into my store carrying an eight inch chopping knife. Fortunately for us, he was living in his own head and didn't even acknowledge anyone's existence while he ran around the store trying to find a way out (he clearly thought someone was chasing him), but if he had attacked someone with that knife? I can't say whether or not the rest of us would have done something out of fear for our own lives, as he was a good 6'2, young, and well-built, and all but one of the six of us in the store were women (and one of them had a baby with her). I'd like to imagine we would have *tried*, but it's easy to definitively say you would put yourself at risk until you've been there.

This. If that guy had been high on PCP, 5 people wouldn't have been able to do a damned thing to stop him. The fact remains that no one knows the situation, or why he had a bag full of knives, or if he could've been concealing a bomb under his shirt. Claim you're a hero all you want, no one knows what they'd do in that situation until it happens.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Never underestimate SOME of your fellow humans in these kind of situations. Not everyone has an immediate "flee" mentality. There are definately situations where flight is right, and self preservation is the way to go. Armchair analyzing? Hiding behind a screen? Some people here have had some "training". Just as easily as you can call "bullshit", some of us will pick it up and throw it right back at ya. Like Lara said, I can't speak for everybody, but I can & will speak for myself.

I agree with the PCP comment, that is not something to mess with. Saw it numerous times working in a hospital in Chicago. Seems like this perp in the original case was fairly calm while doing this, which doesn't sound like PCP to me. You can play "what if" all you want. What if he had a bag of knives, what if he had a bomb under his shirt, etc. The ULTIMATE what if is, what if SOMEONE actually tried to do something. Perhaps the young Chinese woman would still be alive.

My vote still goes to concealed carry...

 

[OrbWeaver]

That's the key word, J-Dub, SOME people. The majority of Americans (indeed, humans the world over) have NOT had any kind of training to deal with such a volitile situation. So yes, I think there IS a lot of armchair analyzing going on here. You and freakchylde are NOT in the majority, and when I see people, training or no, criticizing civilians for not trying to intervene, I get a little irritated. I've had both self-defense and firearm training, but I still can't claim I'd have jumped in and tried to help. As has been stated, until you're in the situation, you don't know for sure what you would do. Right now, all that's going on is speculation.

Personally, I'd probably have also fallen prey to the "OH SHIT!" factor and run for my life. But maybe not. I'd like to say that my Tae Kwon Do training would kick in and I would be the hero, but that would just be pointless bravado. I don't know how I would react since I wasn't there, and hopefully I'll never be in such a situation.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

You are correct, without being a witness to it, the situation can't be fully analyzed for fight or flee. BUT, it seems more common place for people in our present time to take the easy way out & not get involved, whether it be a bike thief, or a headhunter. I think it's the apathy that seems to be dominating society now that gets my blood boiling. I'd have felt better about this situation if someone at least tried to intervene, in some way, shape, or form, successfully, or not. It's not a hero thing in my eyes, it's about trying to do the "right" thing. This guy can't be executed fast enough for this crime. IMO.
I'm sure some Psych person will want to analyze him like a lab rat, and see what makes him tick, while we pay for it, and the girl's family mourns, but that's a whole other discussion...

 

[freakchylde]

You are correct, without being a witness to it, the situation can't be fully analyzed for fight or flee. BUT, it seems more common place for people in our present time to take the easy way out & not get involved, whether it be a bike thief, or a headhunter. I think it's the apathy that seems to be dominating society now that gets my blood boiling. I'd have felt better about this situation if someone at least tried to intervene, in some way, shape, or form, successfully, or not. It's not a hero thing in my eyes, it's about trying to do the "right" thing. This guy can't be executed fast enough for this crime. IMO.
I'm sure some Psych person will want to analyze him like a lab rat, and see what makes him tick, while we pay for it, and the girl's family mourns, but that's a whole other discussion...

Totally agree with everything J-Dub said. Which is the thing that really irritates me about the situation. It's not the fact that EVERYBODY didn't try to help, it's the fact that they all RAN AWAY. The only person being stated to have stayed was the barrista, and I applaud him for trying to get the police there (however late they ended up being there). Yes, some people are made for running and will always run, others are made for defending and I doubt that EVERYONE in the area were runners. Call me strange, but a mass exodus of folks from a coffeeshop would have me questioning a few folks and walking over to take a look.

And yes, not everyone trains for self-defense, I'm of the mind that they should. At least in the basics to protect themselves, even in a limited capacity. It's, increasingly, becoming obvious that the only person likely to do anything, other than call the police, is the individual being attacked. And even then, it's only the police's responsibility to arrive after the reporting of a crime in progress. They are responders, and the definition of "immediate response" is really, "as soon as we can get someone available, and get them to the scene." Which, unfortunately, isn't always something you want to wait for.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

I used to work as a manager for a rock-bar/club, and often we had situations with drunk customers getting into fights, not only with other guests, but also with the security personal - sometimes pulling knifes out etc. I've always gone in and defended who needed to be defended, and I've never been scared of getting involved in a fight. Luckily for me, I've always come out as the winner. Heck, if I saw brawls on the streets of Copenhagen, I would go in and stop it.

But, and I think a lot of those who respond to this thread forgets about this: some of us actually have a family now, some of us are parents. There's no way in hell I'd get involved in a fight with someone holding a weapon (knife, gun, whatever) unless my life or the life of those I love is in danger. There's nothing that can justify me taking that risk whatsoever. I am first and foremost a husband/parent now, and that is where my priority lies.

Sorry if that sounds like a cynical or like I would be "wimping" out of a fight, but my wife and my son are my priorities, not someone I don't know.

c.

 

[Cheiron]

The way to combat the flight response is to make the decision beforehand. If shit goes down, you help. Decide now, not then.