I HATE BANDS WITH EVERY FUCKING CELL OF MY BODY

[coneyis]

Add that to the fact that your average drummer isn't very good, and you'll quickly come to realise that metal bands mostly suck.

+1

Holy shit, something I agree with you on It's true, and even worse if they DO know how it works these days. I've had clients that know about samples, triggers, reamping, quantizing, etc. and they come in expecting that. The problem is, they think that shit is "easy" so they don't even try to give a good performance. Makes for a fun career choice, engineering. This is why I'm so sick of metal now and just want to do anything BUT metal.

+++1


I've gone through scenarios such as this thread before and to add, you just need to set boundaries and push through. Don't be so focused on making a turd sound like a gem when it's clear they lack the skills and experience. If you make a commitment, you should see it through. Then again there are always exceptions. Live and learn my friends!!!

On a side note, I had the chance to record 2 non metal bands over the last month and it really was a breath of fresh air! The experience was so pleasant in every way even right through the edit/mixing process. Makes me realize how much I hate recording metal bands too!!!

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Here's a little tip, guys: Not sure if it'll apply to your situation, but it's worked wonders for me.

Insist that the BAND (not just the drummer) have all the material rehearsed to a metronome before setting foot into the studio. REFUSE to accept anything less.

A simple, "If it's not to a metronome, I won't touch it." will do. I find this strategy separates the men from the boys pretty quickly. If they're not willing to practice to a metronome, they're not worth your time & should be avoided at all costs.

Another thing: Be firm when it's called for. Be a Drill Sergeant if you have to. Don't be afraid to throw people out of the studio if they're not practiced. (a favourite tactic of mine that I haven't had to use since insisting on metronomes & tempo maps.)
If you're not in Alpha Male mode at the onset of a project, you'll get walked on. It's your session, you call the shots.

 

[Force666]

Always expecting one guitarist to play both parts is ridiculous. If they are playing the same exact riff, you get one to play it. If they are both playing different parts (like they should be) then who cares. I don't take the time to learn all our other guitarists parts, if I have to, I'll figure it out, but if it comes to that i'll probably just fire them anyways.

 

[Erik Monsonis]

Another thing: Be firm when it's called for. Be a Drill Sergeant if you have to. Don't be afraid to throw people out of the studio if they're not practiced. (a favourite tactic of mine that I haven't had to use since insisting on metronomes & tempo maps.)
If you're not in Alpha Male mode at the onset of a project, you'll get walked on. It's your session, you call the shots.

+10000

I always warn them in the pre-production about my recording mood when something is not of my liking... So far has worked really well. :Smug:

 

[Erik Monsonis]

Always expecting one guitarist to play both parts is ridiculous. If they are playing the same exact riff, you get one to play it. If they are both playing different parts (like they should be) then who cares. I don't take the time to learn all our other guitarists parts, if I have to, I'll figure it out, but if it comes to that i'll probably just fire them anyways.

Well, there's a previous stage to tracking that's called pre-production. That is the moment to start learning the few parts you don't know. Usually it's not that much what differs.

 

[PhilR]

We had a band in to record a while back. Typical deathcore stuff. Utterly useless musicianship, a drummer with a few busted brass plates for cymbals and a china he hit ALL THE FUCKING TIME. No rhythm what-so-fucking-ever.

They came back to book some practice time with us a while later. But not to improve their musicianship, oh no, but to rehearse their STAGE MOVES!

They've done this TWICE! The second time they actually said "Oh we played a gig the other night so we don't really need to practice the songs"!!

For your listening displeasure and general bemusement: http://alturl.com/qsac

 

[PhilR]

Well, there's a previous stage to tracking that's called pre-production. That is the moment to start learning the few parts you don't know. Usually it's not that much what differs.

Or you could just get both guitarists to doubletrack their parts for the entire song, keep the main rhythm and just take the best differing parts from the others.

 

[SocialNumb]

They came back to book some practice time with us a while later. But not to improve their musicianship, oh no, but to rehearse their STAGE MOVES!

hahahahahaha Thats gold!

oh man that link made me sad.

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

We had a band in to record a while back. Typical deathcore stuff. Utterly useless musicianship, a drummer with a few busted brass plates for cymbals and a china he hit ALL THE FUCKING TIME. No rhythm what-so-fucking-ever.

They came back to book some practice time with us a while later. But not to improve their musicianship, oh no, but to rehearse their STAGE MOVES!

They've done this TWICE! The second time they actually said "Oh we played a gig the other night so we don't really need to practice the songs"!!

For your listening displeasure and general bemusement: http://alturl.com/qsac

Jesus christ thats terrible.

From what I've experienced in my local (metalcore) scene, most of these kids think that they can't be "loose" if they play to a click. Which isn't true whatsoever as you guys all know (a lot more than me.)

Just to give an example, I was talking to one of my friends whos in a local band around South Jersey. They've played bigger shows, but hadn't recorded anything yet (they were supposed to go in June to record their EP but I don't know if they ever did or not.) I was talking to my friend, the drummer, about how they're gonna record.

Me: "So how are you guys doing it, you gonna do pre-production demos or what?"
Him: "nah, we're just going up there and laying down the tracks."
Me: "How though, if you've only rehearsed them in your space?"
Him: "we know them well enough that we'll get it recorded"
Me: "to a click?"
Him: "I don't use a click, my timing is good already"
Me: "..."
Me: "You know that won't be good enough, right? I mean, you realize that recording is all about timing."
Him: "It'll be fine, my timing is fine and I can keep solid time playing anything. It needs to be human, man! No click, it'll sound robotic"

I facepalmed.

 

[PhilR]

That band would listen to some of the sloppiest, most unbelievably poor drum takes and every member of the band would nod, smile and say "yeah man, that was a pretty good take".

It's like; not only do they have no sense of rhythm, but they can't even HEAR it. Like it's some sense they're simply missing.

I can understand how a lifetime of listening to shitty mp3's through shittier earbuds can result in a listener with zero ability to distinguish audio fidelity but this kind of musical insensibility kind of freaks me out a little bit.

 

[The-Zeronaut]

*UPDATE*

today we recorded guitars to another song and fixed mistakes in the other two
then we spent an hour and a half trying to record a "solo" (i feel bad just by calling that a solo)
a fucking 4 bars solo...and nothing ala petrucci or michael angelo batio no...a fucking shitty solo
that in the end we dont keep cuz IT FUCKING SUCKS and the guitarist
cant play it without seeming that he has no arms and he is suffering extreme pain inside his anus...

there was a lot of editing in the guitars and (again) in the drums...

this weekend we will record guitars for another song (the last one THANK GOD) , try to record that thing they call "solo" again
and probably bass too.

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

That band would listen to some of the sloppiest, most unbelievably poor drum takes and every member of the band would nod, smile and say "yeah man, that was a pretty good take".

It's like; not only do they have no sense of rhythm, but they can't even HEAR it. Like it's some sense they're simply missing.

I can understand how a lifetime of listening to shitty mp3's through shittier earbuds can result in a listener with zero ability to distinguish audio fidelity but this kind of musical insensibility kind of freaks me out a little bit.

exactly. I mean, I never used to use a click but could always keep pretty good time when jamming along to records etc, even throughout time changes. when I started using a click 6-8 months ago, especially when writing my own material, I noticed a difference within a couple of days - I simply got a lot tighter now having the exact tempo clicking along outloud.

I don't understand why people seem to think that a click = robotic, though. IME, a human will never to be perfectly 100.000000% on-time to a predefined tempo track, which makes it have that "human" element and not be robotic. imo, and I'm sure some (or most) would agree, someone who says "clicks make it sound robotic, we're not doing it to a click" shouldn't be in a studio.

 

[colonel kurtz]

One of my music teachers who often records bands recorded an instrumental jazz band last year. He recorded all the instruments at the same time.

He recorded 25 songs in one day, lmao. And it was really tight, nearly no edits to do at all.

So yeah, there is some good bands that can play after all .

that's because jazz musicians are MUSICIANS...dudes can read music, follow a tempo, and generally know what the fuck is going on not only with what they're doing, but with what the rest of the ensemble is doing

as much as i love metal and all, most bands are a bunch of fucking kids who are dicking off and having fun, and have no concept of what it takes to put together professional-quality material

 

[drew_drummer]

I've been in a few bands. Tacoma is the only one where I've felt (god I sound like a royal douchebag saying this) that the other people matched my musicianship. When we rehearse... we actually rehearse. We don't tit about practicing stage-moves or how to play without our hair falling out of place.

Those people aren't musicians; they're cunts.

YMMV

 

[Chris_P_Critter]

I've been in a few bands. Tacoma is the only one where I've felt (god I sound like a royal douchebag saying this) that the other people matched my musicianship. When we rehearse... we actually rehearse. We don't tit about practicing stage-moves or how to play without our hair falling out of place.

Those people aren't musicians; they're cunts.

YMMV

Been there and will never go back. Main reason why I've not reformed a band - I can't find anyone who is willing or even capable to put in the time to get it right, and put together a quality set of songs.

Glad you're in a better position.

 

[Force666]

Well, there's a previous stage to tracking that's called pre-production. That is the moment to start learning the few parts you don't know. Usually it's not that much what differs.

If that's the case then you're right. but, i'm talking stuff like dissection and dark tranquilllity where they are hardly ever playing the same riff.

I think the fact remains, whoever wrote the part should play it. If someone can't do THAT then you just fire them (if it's your band).

 

[AllanD]

exactly. I mean, I never used to use a click but could always keep pretty good time when jamming along to records etc, even throughout time changes. when I started using a click 6-8 months ago, especially when writing my own material, I noticed a difference within a couple of days - I simply got a lot tighter now having the exact tempo clicking along outloud.

I don't understand why people seem to think that a click = robotic, though. IME, a human will never to be perfectly 100.000000% on-time to a predefined tempo track, which makes it have that "human" element and not be robotic. imo, and I'm sure some (or most) would agree, someone who says "clicks make it sound robotic, we're not doing it to a click" shouldn't be in a studio.

Most people don't, they just can't play to one.

 

[Erik Monsonis]

Most people says practises to metronome, it may be true, but the real truth is they can't follow it.

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

Most people don't, they just can't play to one.

well obviously, but you have these shitball kids who have no clue what they're talking about and who seem to think that a click makes everything robotic, but in reality it prevents the band from sounding like a bunch of 12 year olds who just learned how to play a powerchord or a basic 4/4 snare/kick beat.

the aforementioned example I gave about my drummer friend, he's an excellent drummer but he started giving me that "click makes everything robotic, dude!" speech and I was just thinking to myself "are you clueless? do you really think you're going to go to a studio, pay someone by the hour to record you, and just bang it out in a day or two with absolutely zero pre-prod demos, and no jamming to a click?" keep in mind, I believe that they were going up to the studio for 3 days or something like that. they were going to record a 4 track EP, if I remember correctly. I'm sure that engineer (I don't remember the studio off-hand) was real happy.

it really makes me mad to see someone who's so talented, but he doesn't understand the concept that a click doesn't make it "robotic" but "on time" and "the band is in sync with each other".

 

[dontletmedrown]

Hang on a second, don't start giving the guy crap for a bunch of conclusions you've jumped to based on nothing but conjecture.

Working for free may be a "mistake", but it's his decision at the end of the day - and you can't conclude from that that he can't charge people; all you know is he didn't in this instance. I did my first few mixing gigs for free because it was the only way to get a foot in - if I'd tried charging I'd still be waiting.

Working with a band you haven't heard is, again, his choice, be it a mistake or not. I've recorded (as a musician) in 4 different cities in over a dozen studios, and it's pretty much 60/40 towards the engineer not having heard the band. Where I live now, it's nearer 90/10 I would guess - I've recorded 11 CDs with 5 bands here and the engineer has NEVER heard the band beforehand - one of them had never heard screaming vocals before and nearly soiled himself when I did my first take.

As for the other bits: He didn't force the drummer to stop at every tempo change, he said he only got the job the day before so didn't have a chance to make proper clicks/guides - the "we have to" is meant to be "had to", it's a tense mistake because I'm guessing English isn't his first language (which he apologised for in his post).

And he didn't force one guitarist to play all the parts - he suggested it, the guy agreed, and then decided he didn't know that parts at the last minute - he didn't even say that he couldn't play them, he said he didn't know them. Personally I would say that's totally on the guitarist's head. I don't care how long you talk to someone or how capable you think they are, if they say they're up for it, it's their balls on the chopping block. The comment about "only a really good guitarist can pull it off"? Bull - I'm a rubbish guitarist, and I play bass in my current band - but I still know all the guitar parts to every song, and I can play tight to a recording of myself.

The guy's having a rubbish session and decided to vent - there's no need to be a cunt to him, especially when you're basing on things he didn't even say.

Steve

Who are you? His secretary? His PR? I could bear your criticism until you felt the need to call me a cunt. Cmon, man- grow the fuck up. I wasn't "giving him crap", I was trying to help. Everything I posted was my opinion based on what I read in the OP and based on my experience from working with people in music for over 10 years. Of course these are all HIS decisions and that was my point. I tried to give the guy some "tough love", but apparently you thought it was better to rip on me instead of offering any help whatsoever.

You mention that the guitarist agreed so it was "totally on the guitarist's head", well that's great but because of that, the OP gets to deal with the surprise, so it's not just "on the guitarists' head". All of the things I offered could be used from the start next time to help see that shit coming a mile away.

I'm glad it works out great for you not listening to the bands you record ahead of time. I've tried that and it resulted in recording nothing but douche-bags. Now everyone I work with is pre-screened. When I interview bands I'm looking for ANY reason to say, "No thanks, I'm not interested". I mostly record out of my home, and I don't need any fuckbags here. I have to say that approach has worked out great for me, which is why I posted what I did.

By the way, what did your post accomplish other than to rip on me? Nothing whatsoever. Nothing even slightly useful for the OP. Well thanks for your input anyway.uke: