Though I've been griping about discontinuous parts of the new music for ages now, that part doesn't feel disjointed to me. What I mean is, that whereas I find the discontinuity at 3:57-4:10 to be quite literally unmusical sounding (harsh, clash of notes, rhythm, etc), this one is the kind that my ear anticipates. Still, I understand what you mean by disconnected. It is disconnected in a storytelling kind of way (most of HA is demonic sounding, this is beautiful and relaxing), but not musically.
I just can't get over Heir Apparent's outro
- Thread starter Swifty1
- Start date
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Comes out of nowhere. I think it's saved by the fact that it should have been somewhere on Still Life or MAYH. The quality alone makes up for its unremarkable connection to the rest of the song (or album in fact).
Black Session
Heretic Misanthrope
as if this is the first time there are parts that at first feel disjointed in Opeth's music ... have you guys not listened to My Arms, Your Hearse or anything else?
this song is definitely becoming one of my favourite Opeth compositions, it actually has a very strong MAYH vibe to it although in the same time a very new Opeth. Love it ...
this song is definitely becoming one of my favourite Opeth compositions, it actually has a very strong MAYH vibe to it although in the same time a very new Opeth. Love it ...
Iki-ilkkuja
Member
MAYH is my favorite album ,but I still think the Heir Apparent ending sounds disjointed.
:Smokin:
:Smokin:
Opethian666
Booze influenced
- Sep 17, 2005
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Seriously, I don't understand how you can complain about "disjointedness" in this song. Why should every part have to predictably flow into a part that has a similar atmosphere or melody? Not everything in life is predictable either, and emotions can from time to time shift from one extreme into another in a seemingly undirected manner, and without any fluid transitions. Since music is an expression of emotions and thoughts that you experience in life, why would an unpredictable shift in atmosphere that might seem disjointed have to be avoided?
Granted, a song should have a minimum of predictability and "natural" transitions to give it some cohesion, so that it can be called an actual song, but a few more experimental transitions can only add to the quality of a song. Besides, the transition feels perfectly natural to me, although I can see how some people might find it slightly odd. Usually when I come across a musical part in an otherwise great song that at first doesn't seem natural to me, I try to find a situation in life, maybe a memory, that I can relate to the music. That usually does the trick, it's just a matter of providing a framework for musical interpretation. If you find a musical part unnatural, it's a sign you don't understand the emotions, or in this case the flow of emotions that the music is supposed to evoke.
Obviously everybody has a different emotional personality and will find music with certain atmospheres (which evoke certain emotions) unbearable, and that is not something that can be changed (unless your emotional personality changes). But things like preferences for flow and structure of songs, usually can be changed, since they depend on a set of suppositions he or she has acquired, usually because the person is used to listening to music that is restricted by boundaries as a result of the musicians that made it having the same suppositions. For example, how do you think, no matter what your personality, someone who has only listened to radio music his or her entire life (and suppose any factors that could expose this person to other music are not present), would react to music with a more complex song structure, no matter what genre? Confusion would be the logical result, and without curiousity and repeat listening the person would never learn to get rid of his or her musical dogmas and break musical boundaries.
Obviously, using this simplified reasoning, I could defend the most dissonant randomly strung together music ever to have exited the musical assholes of a bunch of retards, and try and persuade people to try and like it and understand its intent and associated emotions, even if there was absolutely no thought involved in its making. That's obviously not my intention. My only point is that for a band that you already like, and a song of which you already like most of its entirety, it's a simple mental process to enhance your enjoyment of the part(s) that you find unnatural, by finding an associated emotional or situational meaning for it, and thus "understanding" it, or rather finding an interpretation for it, which will make it more natural.
Now I remember why I stopped posting here, every time I want to make a quick short post, I get dragged into the seductive over-analysing of simple concepts
.
Granted, a song should have a minimum of predictability and "natural" transitions to give it some cohesion, so that it can be called an actual song, but a few more experimental transitions can only add to the quality of a song. Besides, the transition feels perfectly natural to me, although I can see how some people might find it slightly odd. Usually when I come across a musical part in an otherwise great song that at first doesn't seem natural to me, I try to find a situation in life, maybe a memory, that I can relate to the music. That usually does the trick, it's just a matter of providing a framework for musical interpretation. If you find a musical part unnatural, it's a sign you don't understand the emotions, or in this case the flow of emotions that the music is supposed to evoke.
Obviously everybody has a different emotional personality and will find music with certain atmospheres (which evoke certain emotions) unbearable, and that is not something that can be changed (unless your emotional personality changes). But things like preferences for flow and structure of songs, usually can be changed, since they depend on a set of suppositions he or she has acquired, usually because the person is used to listening to music that is restricted by boundaries as a result of the musicians that made it having the same suppositions. For example, how do you think, no matter what your personality, someone who has only listened to radio music his or her entire life (and suppose any factors that could expose this person to other music are not present), would react to music with a more complex song structure, no matter what genre? Confusion would be the logical result, and without curiousity and repeat listening the person would never learn to get rid of his or her musical dogmas and break musical boundaries.
Obviously, using this simplified reasoning, I could defend the most dissonant randomly strung together music ever to have exited the musical assholes of a bunch of retards, and try and persuade people to try and like it and understand its intent and associated emotions, even if there was absolutely no thought involved in its making. That's obviously not my intention. My only point is that for a band that you already like, and a song of which you already like most of its entirety, it's a simple mental process to enhance your enjoyment of the part(s) that you find unnatural, by finding an associated emotional or situational meaning for it, and thus "understanding" it, or rather finding an interpretation for it, which will make it more natural.
Now I remember why I stopped posting here, every time I want to make a quick short post, I get dragged into the seductive over-analysing of simple concepts
.I'm not complaining. I actually love it and musically it's not so disjointed, i just dind't have a better word, and feels perfectly natural (especially as i've heard it many a time before) I was just saying..
+1
I don't honestly see whats so great about this song?...
The intro is nice, but the song dies musically i think as soon as the growling starts.
It starts sounding so choppy and unblending. Doesn't seem like a single riff or vocal line actually flows or blends with another, and doesn't even seem like anything matches up.
The ending is the best part, and makes me so mad that they actually didn't use that part a couple times through the song and use some soft vocals for the part, cuz honestly i think thats what the song really needs.
I think mike's a great writer, but i think the guitar player who left put alot into Opeth too, especially with arranging and solo's.
Honestly this song is crappy to me. It reminds me of Soulfly.
I do think this new albulm is alot more "instantly pleasing but technically more simple and sucky" compared to the other opeth albulms which are "insanely complex and well put together, but takes awhile to grow"
Basically i think this albulm is a mosh album, not a sit back, ananlize, and listen albulm like the others before it.
The intro is nice, but the song dies musically i think as soon as the growling starts.
It starts sounding so choppy and unblending. Doesn't seem like a single riff or vocal line actually flows or blends with another, and doesn't even seem like anything matches up.
The ending is the best part, and makes me so mad that they actually didn't use that part a couple times through the song and use some soft vocals for the part, cuz honestly i think thats what the song really needs.
I think mike's a great writer, but i think the guitar player who left put alot into Opeth too, especially with arranging and solo's.
Honestly this song is crappy to me. It reminds me of Soulfly.
I do think this new albulm is alot more "instantly pleasing but technically more simple and sucky" compared to the other opeth albulms which are "insanely complex and well put together, but takes awhile to grow"
Basically i think this albulm is a mosh album, not a sit back, ananlize, and listen albulm like the others before it.
BefriendedUnit
They wear white for me
4:08-7:14 = GOD
Although the whatever-is-going-on at 4:08 (and when the same kind of thing repeats) is so awesome and thrashy. I love it.
Although the whatever-is-going-on at 4:08 (and when the same kind of thing repeats) is so awesome and thrashy. I love it.
Opethian666
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Taotrac said:
Actually, that's the point where the song starts to get furiously interesting.
The songwriting employed here is quite different from what they've done before, and the connections are a bit less evident (ie less standard, and employ less elements of similarity between connected segments than usual, which of course allows for greater shifts), but that doesn't mean the song is badly written. What it does mean is that you'll have to listen to it quite a number of times before they become evident, and this adds more relistening value to the song. Trust me, every time you listen, the transitions will sound better, because you'll notice more melodic and rhythmic patterns, and also more similarities and counterpoint between riffs. At this point, they sound as natural to me as in any other Opeth song, but have a greater impact, and if this were an Opeth song from an earlier album, I'd have been bored by it by now and have to take some time off from it before being able to enjoy it again.
Well this shows a little inconsistency in your reasoning as far as I can tell. You say you're mad because they didn't use that part more, and you think it's the best part of the song. Well, let anyone listen to that section, no matter their musical taste, most people will find it enjoyable. Why? Because it is instantly pleasing and quite simple. I already know for certain that in some time from now, most people that thought this was the best part of the song, will find it the most boring part. I also predict that most people that didn't like the transition, wil love it.
It's a known fact that Peter contributed almost nothing to the arrangements besides on the earliest Opeth albums.
Honestly this song is crappy to me. It reminds me of Soulfly.
. It's basically the opposite, well, except I wouldn't use that first description for the earlier albums either (especially "sucky"), but Heir Apparent is easily one of the most technical, experimental and complex songs they've ever done, which is also probably the reason why you think it sounds "choppy and unblending". First of all, how you can judge the entire album if you've only heard HA, PH and LE. Second of all, even if you judge the album only on the basis of those 3 songs, it would not really be a defendable statement. The only Opeth album that took quite some time for me to digest is Still Life, and that's because it was the first Opeth album I ever heard. The others are all quite easy on the ears with mostly very "logical" transitions, harmonies and melodies that are instantly satisfying.
Anyway, that's just my perspective.
Whisper and Weep
Awaken from the Miasma...
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Taotrac's a retard. Lol at Opeth being complex and technical too. SL was the only album that was pretty technical. I'm a guitar player myself and let me tell you WS is just as "technical" as BWP and MAYH.. especially HA.
I think the outro is amazing andit doenst feel out of place at all, I also imagine it being very cool live
when I first heard it I instinctively thought about Face of Melinda, especially the Roundhouse one, the outro of the song that is (I really like axe's drumming there). Basically FoM and TNATSW were the reason I bought the album! they are amazing, period.
when I first heard it I instinctively thought about Face of Melinda, especially the Roundhouse one, the outro of the song that is (I really like axe's drumming there). Basically FoM and TNATSW were the reason I bought the album! they are amazing, period.
Well i actually have ears, and i can tell you that Still Life and GR are probably Opeth's two most complicated albulms musical wise. The guitar's notes are all widely varied and the song structures are all heavy-soft-heavy-soft ect. with ALOT of vocals and lyrics and dynamics. Blackwater park seemed alot less varied, and Deleverance seems alot like my opinion on Watershed.
Heir Appearant certainly doesn't have any real dynamics, since the song doesn't really change much as far as Opeth go. Its pretty straightfoward, like wreath. Also, just because it uses that "stop-start-start-stop-really-fast" type of playing like bands like Mudvayne use is pretty much nu-metal/lame-thrash sounding, and not really that complicated, although maybe hard to play and understand. You know, (not to sound racist) but black teenagers (the gangster type) do some pretty strange things that are hard to understand, like they have their own language pretty much, and wear 15 layers of clothes everyday, and its hard to understand, but doesn't mean it's a wise decision. And pretty much why im hating on Heir Appearant so much is it's Watershed's only real heavy song it seems like other that Lotus Eater, and it seems wasted. It seems with alot more varied song structure, and some soft vocals, and some typical mess, they coulda created a epic song. With only 7 tracks on this albulm, and most of them pretty soft, i wouldn't say i wanted another "wreath".
And i read somewhere that the other guitar player wrote some things, and helped out with the song structures. I mean, honeslty it really sounds like alot is missing from Opeth to me. Especially alot of the jazz type of influence that GR had, that was supposedly gonna be on this albulm too.
But honestly, Ghost of Perdition sounds way more evil than this song ever could, just go back and listen to it. Personally i think using evil sounding "soft parts" and evil sounding "other things in the music' besides just a plain metal song sound way more evil that just something plain and generic. Thats why i love bands like opeth, and cradle of filth, and such. They add so much to the music that other bands that "try" to sound evil never think of, and its why Opeth succeeded on GR. But i just dont think this song, nor anything on this album to be precise, has much in it other than 1 sound of electric guitar, 1 sound of acoustic, and a rare tiny keyboard part every now anythen. And btw the only song i havent heard at least parts of it is coil, and at 3 mins long, im sure its not gonna make me go "woah ive changed my mind about this whole abulm!".
Heir Appearant certainly doesn't have any real dynamics, since the song doesn't really change much as far as Opeth go. Its pretty straightfoward, like wreath. Also, just because it uses that "stop-start-start-stop-really-fast" type of playing like bands like Mudvayne use is pretty much nu-metal/lame-thrash sounding, and not really that complicated, although maybe hard to play and understand. You know, (not to sound racist) but black teenagers (the gangster type) do some pretty strange things that are hard to understand, like they have their own language pretty much, and wear 15 layers of clothes everyday, and its hard to understand, but doesn't mean it's a wise decision. And pretty much why im hating on Heir Appearant so much is it's Watershed's only real heavy song it seems like other that Lotus Eater, and it seems wasted. It seems with alot more varied song structure, and some soft vocals, and some typical mess, they coulda created a epic song. With only 7 tracks on this albulm, and most of them pretty soft, i wouldn't say i wanted another "wreath".
And i read somewhere that the other guitar player wrote some things, and helped out with the song structures. I mean, honeslty it really sounds like alot is missing from Opeth to me. Especially alot of the jazz type of influence that GR had, that was supposedly gonna be on this albulm too.
But honestly, Ghost of Perdition sounds way more evil than this song ever could, just go back and listen to it. Personally i think using evil sounding "soft parts" and evil sounding "other things in the music' besides just a plain metal song sound way more evil that just something plain and generic. Thats why i love bands like opeth, and cradle of filth, and such. They add so much to the music that other bands that "try" to sound evil never think of, and its why Opeth succeeded on GR. But i just dont think this song, nor anything on this album to be precise, has much in it other than 1 sound of electric guitar, 1 sound of acoustic, and a rare tiny keyboard part every now anythen. And btw the only song i havent heard at least parts of it is coil, and at 3 mins long, im sure its not gonna make me go "woah ive changed my mind about this whole abulm!".
