I woke up this morning...

[rahvin]

I dont know, but after reading your post I couldnt help thinking that maybe you should step down from your mod post. Not that this place needed much moderating anyway but I find your attitude more than inappropriate

see, i didn't expect this from you. it's quite low.
i manage the forum without applying any kind of censorship content-wise, which is what the band likes (and i agree). i delete spam, operate polls and threads that need it, all following the users' advice and suggestion. even though i might take sides in a debate, i never exercise my authority to limit a user's freedom of expression. and you're basically saying that, for my opinions, i shouldn't be a moderator.

well, i'll do what niklas thinks is right. so you can write to him and explain why you want me removed.

 

[King Chaos]

*steps in*...
After reading your views on forums and how all you seem to percieve here is "Lobotomised nonsense", I too thought 'arn't you meant to be our moderator'. Not that Id ever suggest you're a bad moderator, it's just kind of disheartening to know you see us in this way, when even less than a year ago you used to genuinely enjoy pulling the strings. You didn't see your possition as a technical exercise like you described above, you used to even say you were proud to mod this place (the friendliest online community, most well trained users and all that crap). I know aswell as anyone that people change, but some of the negativity you showed in the statement earlier today towards your borthers and sisters here seemed (to me) absolutely out of character.

 

[Misanthrope]

Am I the only one who sees this as a community, with living people and all? Of course I can hide behind the "Trust no one" facade but that's not how I want to do this.

This goes against my principles but ill say it anyway because im on a good mood: For your own best interest dont see it that way. Period. There are many, many examples ( one of them in the neightboor Opeth board with Jannet ) of people who took things too seriously and alot of times they eventually quit. It is the internet: it takes away anything that is personal and expressive about human contact, and it opens the doors for misunderstandings. So it is not alright to take it seriously cause you just cant see the reactions, no matter how stupid smilies you try to post.

Sure, Ive read the pointless arguments and silly threads, but what do you expect? It's just as in real life, Im not gonna convert anyone to atheism (which is not my goal anyway) and no one is gonna convert me to catholicism, it's only sad that nothing more came out of it so far.

Again it is not like real life, you wouldnt say half of the things you say on real life and thats for people like you, let alone people like me.

And what about your "stop whining" cliche rahvin? Missy said like "The board used to be so great but now it's turned to shit, oh and btw I dont respect any of you bitches!" I think "stop whining" is a pretty valid response there. And how is that a "contribution" anyway? I mean, would your respect for me skyrocket if I randomly insulted people just to start a controversial debate? What's the point in that?

Its not cause i was questioned or otherwise encourages to disclosure my motives, i didnt made a state of the board thread or anything like that, i just replied to it.

I dont know, but after reading your post I couldnt help thinking that maybe you should step down from your mod post. Not that this place needed much moderating anyway but I find your attitude more than inappropriate

There is no longer a comunity, at least not a comunity worth saving, on this board anymore, is just random stuff about the band. If the band was to take a break and stop touring the board would go into coma for as long as the band doesnt do more tours or new material. If there was an actual comunity here that wouldnt happen, just as it did not happened in the past. Random thoughts and other bullshit on the maybe 3 active threads not about DT does not makes a comunity, it makes this a very inefficient chatroom at most, and an outpost for up to date DT news and other info.

If there was a need to serious moderation Rahvin would either quit himself or step up to the plate and perform.

 

[Misanthrope]

*steps in*...
After reading your views on forums and how all you seem to percieve here is "Lobotomised nonsense", I too thought 'arn't you meant to be our moderator'. Not that Id ever suggest you're a bad moderator, it's just kind of disheartening to know you see us in this way, when even less than a year ago you used to genuinely enjoy pulling the strings. You didn't see your possition as a technical exercise like you described above, you used to even say you were proud to mod this place (the friendliest online community, most well trained users and all that crap). I know aswell as anyone that people change, but some of the negativity you showed in the statement earlier today towards your borthers and sisters here seemed (to me) absolutely out of character.

Thats alot of bullshit. He has a responsability to control the board and encourage discussion, talk and interaction between DT fans, he is not forced to like said fans at all as long as he doesnt screw them in the ass with his mod powers. Again more of this bullshit brotherhood, why would you expect Rahvin to like the posters here? Cause he likes DT? Cause he moderates their board? Cause he listens to some Metal? Fuck all that the band really cant do anything about it if their geek internet posting fanbase are a bunch of morons, they just do music, nothing more nothing less. The same is true for metal, is just fucking music, you dont have to like someone just because you partially share their music prefences thats ridiculous bullshit.

 

[Rusty]

If there was a need to serious moderation Rahvin would either quit himself or step up to the plate and perform.

Upon first reading this, I mistook the "Rahvin should quit himself" part to mean he should kill himself, and that tickled me.


Clarity edit: the thought of Rahvin killing himself isn't funny on its own, more the thought that he would do it because of a need of serious moderation. I just had the briefest of mental pictures of him doing an oh-so-melodramatic: "I need to delete posts again?! I can't take this anymore. Goodbye cruel world..."

Well, I thought it was funny.

 

[Misanthrope]

Upon first reading this, I mistook the "Rahvin should quit himself" part to mean he should kill himself, and that tickled me.


Clarity edit: the thought of Rahvin killing himself isn't funny on its own, more the thought that he would do it because of a need of serious moderation. I just had the briefest of mental pictures of him doing an oh-so-melodramatic: "I need to delete posts again?! I can't take this anymore. Goodbye cruel world..."

Well, I thought it was funny.

He's not Lina you know

 

[Rusty]

He's not Lina you know

I know, you can tell by the hair.

 

[rahvin]

i think it's fair that if people here want an enthusiast (of themselves, i seem to understand) to be the moderator, they go and ask for one. personally, i think it's a mistake not to take advantage of someone who's willing to do this job and is already good at it, but i'm not going to cry if all the users really need to be encouraged and supported by a figure of authority. go ahead and get yourself one, folks. then i guess you'll have it removed again when he happens to not support your side any longer.

obviously, the fact that i regularly spend ages promoting band/fans meetings and interaction, or the fact that i take care of all band-related questions in more or less the blink of an eye despite having a job and attending university classes doesn't count for shit. in fact, since i thought that one of the reasons for the constant state of coma of this place was the fact that um is malfunctioning one time out of three, has no search function, and cannot be customized by ourselves alone, i was starting to organize things so that you could all have a (hopefully) better place to go. you can ask gtranquillity about it. that's how negative i am.
still, i'm seeing niklas in a week, so you don't have much longer to endure.

 

[King Chaos]

Thats alot of bullshit. He has a responsability to control the board and encourage discussion, talk and interaction between DT fans, he is not forced to like said fans at all as long as he doesnt screw them in the ass with his mod powers. Again more of this bullshit brotherhood, why would you expect Rahvin to like the posters here? Cause he likes DT? Cause he moderates their board? Cause he listens to some Metal? Fuck all that the band really cant do anything about it if their geek internet posting fanbase are a bunch of morons, they just do music, nothing more nothing less. The same is true for metal, is just fucking music, you dont have to like someone just because you partially share their music prefences thats ridiculous bullshit.

I don't have to 'expect' him to like the posters, as he used to be very friendly (on what can be considered ''''The surface''''' (although yes, I know, this is the Internet right?) ) with most of the users as far back in the recent past as 6 months ago (some of these users are still here). I don't see metal as a brotherhood... and that's not my logic here. It's the fact that this place, although dying, is not dead... and the guys that are still here, who have never, as far as I can see, done anything wrong deserve a little more respect. but yesyesyeysyes I understand all that crap about "respect", which you posted earlier, and how you have no reason to respect them yada yada yada, but lets pretend respect isn't a currency for a second, and realise it works on even teeny-tiny levels, maybe then you'll understand my logic here a little better.

By the way, I'm not as passionate about this issue as my words would suggest... and I can honestly say I agree for the most part with what Misanthrope, and to some affect what rahvin is saying about the state of the board. It's just the way rahv said it, which I found 'shocking'. (Now you're probably going to tell me I'm a moron for thinking one can say something 'in a certain way' over the internet and all that Misinterpretation shit ... but Im pretty sure there's many elements in the written word which craft Attitude, values and tone)

i think it's fair that if people here want an enthusiast (of themselves, i seem to understand) to be the moderator, they go and ask for one. personally, i think it's a mistake not to take advantage of someone who's willing to do this job and is already good at it, but i'm not going to cry if all the users really need to be encouraged and supported by a figure of authority. go ahead and get yourself one, folks. then i guess you'll have it removed again when he happens to not support your side any longer.

obviously, the fact that i regularly spend ages promoting band/fans meetings and interaction, or the fact that i take care of all band-related questions in more or less the blink of an eye despite having a job and attending university classes doesn't count for shit. in fact, since i thought that one of the reasons for the constant state of coma of this place was the fact that um is malfunctioning one time out of three, has no search function, and cannot be customized by ourselves alone, i was starting to organize things so that you could all have a (hopefully) better place to go. you can ask gtranquillity about it. that's how negative i am.
still, i'm seeing niklas in a week, so you don't have much longer to endure.

That's awesome, there's no denying you're more than just a hard working moderator, and there's no denying that to oppose your possition would be ungrateful. But you said, with the exception of Hyena's rants, that everyone here had nothing to say, and anything they did say was bullshit and irrelevant. I could cure cancer while shitting on cancer patients, then when someone says they don't like being shit on I'll just say "Well I cured your cancer!"... guilt trip? Maybe... but doesn't mean I didn't cause some harm by unloading excrement in their direction. I can see I'm taking this too far, and I guess it's just because I get the feeling you didn't get what I was getting at (probably my waffly articulation). Im not criticsing your job, nor can I criticise your attitude. I guess the keyword here is 'disheartend': just how I feel in a fairly insignificant, but worth mentioning way.

 

[Delirious]

rahvin: "people here" hasn't really raised their voice, you know...

 

[Kovenant84]

This is by far the most confusing and most 'out of left field' argument I've ever seen on this board, to be quite honest. Have I just been away so long that this whole movement against Rahv's sprung up? Is there even a 'movement'? Where has all this anger come from?

I fail, most of all, to see how the gradual slowing of this board has become a responsibility of Rahvin's? It's like, "Damn, Brendan, we put you in charge of filing and editing all the papers on entropy, but the universe is still going to die a horrible heat death. Why haven't you fixed it?" Seriously, people, what the fuck is going on here? Am I just totally misunderstanding these endless rants?

~kov.

 

[Delirious]

Have I just been away so long that this whole movement against Rahv's sprung up? Is there even a 'movement'?

well, no, that's what i meant with my previous post. as far as i can see it sums up to one person and a semi-agreement(?).

"Damn, Brendan, we put you in charge of filing and editing all the papers on entropy, but the universe is still going to die a horrible heat death. Why haven't you fixed it?"

 

[rahvin]

IBut you said, with the exception of Hyena's rants, that everyone here had nothing to say, and anything they did say was bullshit and irrelevant.

well, i didn't say it was bullshit, i said it was redundant. i added that what i posted was redundant too. besides, my point was that every board online is structured in more or less the same way, with the same ratio of useless/meaningful stuff, and since i came to some conclusions as to how high that ratio actually is, i feel a lack of motivation to post long rants, like the one i had in mind today. i don't see why it sweeps the ground from under everybody's feet that i'm disappointed and i don't want to post long, intense messages anymore. it's not as if i told anyone i wanted them - or even wished they would - stop what they are doing or change the way they are posting.

 

[Taliesin]

I dont think rahvin is a bad mod, in fact I really respect his attitude of giving every poster his entire freedom and I dont think he should step down. But like KC said, I was quite shocked after reading this post and I thought as he likes it so much, Id throw in a provocating statement and see where the debate goes from there, I meant no offense.

 

[Rusty]

For one thing, I don't think anyone blamed Rahvin for the board dying. I think what Gav and Taliesin were trying to say is that they feel surprised and very dispirited to hear that one of the leading figures in this forum finds their (not just theirs, the majority's) posts to be worthless. If someone I liked and respected told me that my posts were worthless (ha) I think I would feel the same too. How they go from there to wanting him to step down as moderator is beyond me, however. But even with that, the thoughts of two people, even on this forum, can hardly be construed as a movement of any sort.


I should type faster. Typical, just when I want something to move slowly...

 

[King Chaos]

I never wanted him to step down, nor did I even suggest it. I just thought such a nihilistic view of forum life was out of character for any moderator. The points have been discussed, and I have nothing more to add at this time.

Dont say anything about trying to start a movement, I beg you This was not my intention at all

 

[Rusty]

Don't deny it Gav. You and Taliesin want Rahvin's job. Just admit it, get it out in the open, then you can all duel (erm, triel?) to the death using two mice tied together as nunchucks. Rahvin will hold his own for a while, but will eventually succumb to Taliesin's infamous beard-smothering special move, and will be defeated. Then DT will write their next album to be a power metal concept album about the whole battle and the rise of the new dynasty.

 

[Taliesin]

The Rise of Taliesin! It's all been written in The Arcanum!

 

[rahvin]

look, i really just want to watch boys don't cry now, see how responsible i am.

anyway. i think i've mentioned elsewhere, and i think it's kinda obvious from the fact that, of late, i hardly ever post anything, that my feelings towards online boards have changed. please note i said "online boards". not "the dark tranquillity forum community of happy campers".

i don't even blame online boards for disappointing me or not being up to my oh-so-1337 standards. the problem is mine. it used to be fun, it used to be interesting to speak my mind and debate endlessly. now it's just not, and i do notice that - aside from the lack of time - i hear myself repeating the same idiotic bullshit (there you have it! some bullshit! finally!) over and over, and in the end it's pretty pointless, or so it seems to me. when it's lost in a melting pot of pictures of somebody's pets, other people misspelling dark tranquillity for the upteenth time, thorough reports of what a n00b has had for dinner... it's not what i want to do with my free time.

see, i don't even write long emails anymore. i just can't. i need someone to be sitting in front of me, so i can talk, and dedicate a couple more braincells to the actual thinking process without having to distract them from pushing the right shift key really really hard because since i cleaned my keyboard removing every key, it just doesn't work as smoothly as before.

i'm not blaming anybody. even though most people's posts on this thread (hell, on every thread) are repetitions or tongue-in-cheek jokes with lots of tongue and very little cheek. please, do not dismiss these observations as either malevolent or smartass-y: we're all mostly irrelevant and lighthearted and vague in our daily chatting, and i'm even guiltier than most of you, as sometimes i can't even find the words to say something really important to people who need it and deserve it (sorry, hyena, for my sloppy attempt at an email). but i do look for this kind of additional meaning in the things that i want to read (and write, although it's presumptuous to think that i can), and i don't find it on forums online.

"big deal", some of you might say, a smirk of smug savviness on your faces, unless i just made up all those s-words. but you have to remember that i spend a lot of time online, i read a lot of messages, and the nausea effect can be stronger in me than in some of you, who might - for instance - be starting to interact with "a public" just now. i still read every damn post on this board. and no, moderating is not the cause of my illness: i don't need to read your questions&answers more than once every fifty replies, as it is dramatically unlikely that someone will try and smuggle midget porn in one of their messages.

yet i don't think i'm unfit to be the moderator, and - forgive me - i do resent a little bit that i was "provoked" into putting my role to question today. i think it was a little insensitive, considering what you know about me. those of you (and, del, i'm just using the generic plural because it's faster. i appreciate your support a lot) who haven't benefited from my being so active in terms of band/fans relationships, are simply still out of touch because of geographic reasons. if i hated everyone so much, or if i was so cynical about the fanbase, why in the world would i have driven myself to the end of my rope to drag about 20 people to a club in helsinki last summer, so that they could hang out with their favourite musicians? i still personally ask niklas to put fans who contact me on the guest list at shows i attend to, even when i don't really know if they're gonna show up with a pen or a knife. i reply to private messages with questions concerning the band in a matter of hours. daily.

should i step aside because i consider online forums to be something i don't take pleasure in? no. niklas and the rest of the guys are my friends, and i support what they are and their music in any way i can. and you can use someone to stick the unsticky bits and unstick the sticky bits, or get rid of those pesky "MY BNAD AS JUSST RELESAED A DEMOTEIP!!! CHECK IT OUT AT WWW.ALINKTOAVIAGRASITE.ORG", on top of all the rest.

in exchange, please try and tolerate the occasional spell of gloominess without taking it to the extreme. of course there are a few people here whom i think are full of shit, but i do know my boundaries and i strive to avoid anything that - coming from a mod - might be considered harassment. i have nothing at all against the rest of you, and i actually do call a few of you my friends.

 

[King Chaos]

Rusty, you have such aweinspiring insight. How did you figure it out? Even down to the mouse-chukus...

...well now the plan has been revealed in its absoultion I guess the all important element of surprise has been lost, so instead lets just agree to carry on as before ... or maybe even better than before, if indeed rahvin succeeds in finding us a 'better place to go' - or, as it shall now be known "The promised land".

EDIT: @Rahv: Now I understand entirely. I don't want you to think for a second that I was being ungrateful, and if that is how I appeared, then it wasn't intentional, and I apologise.

P.S. Sorry we drove you back into your 'long post' habbit.