CiG
Harbinger of Metal
It's all good! I am just popping in and out of watching the RNC and DNC speeches, not really paying attention to the comments above.
If Mort Divine ruled the world
- Thread starter Zephyrus
- Start date
It's all good! I am just popping in and out of watching the RNC and DNC speeches, not really paying attention to the comments above.
Dak
mentat
SentinelSlain
Suck my joined date.
- Nov 21, 2007
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Dak
mentat
Einherjar86
Active Member
Einherjar86
Active Member
Ellis is a gem who gets overlooked way too often for being a literary "brat." He's an intelligent guy who wrote some really startling and thoughtful (albeit hideous) shit, but he gets overshadowed. American Psycho is really an incredible novel. Not surprised he'd be one to speak out against language/image police, considering Psycho was the object of much scrutiny upon its release.
Satanstoenail
My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle
Was Clint Eastwood always a moron or has he just become a parody of his character in Gran Torino because he's so old and he's losing his marbles?
Dak
mentat
A funny thing often happens when you're pretty close to dying: You stop giving a shit what people think. Is he wrong?
Satanstoenail
My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle
Well, of course things weren't considered racist back before the civil rights movement. Is that when America was great?
Einherjar86
Active Member
Dak
mentat
Einherjar86
Active Member
That's not the point, Dak. Eastwood is suggesting that things were better when he was growing up - i.e. before the Civil Rights Movement. ST's comment is about Eastwood, not Trump.
It's basically a "good ol' days" mentality, appeal to origins, and idealization of a mis-perceived period of common sense and rationality. It's just a dumb comment on Eastwood's part.
It's basically a "good ol' days" mentality, appeal to origins, and idealization of a mis-perceived period of common sense and rationality. It's just a dumb comment on Eastwood's part.
Dak
mentat
Some things were better for most people in the US in the 50s. It's not a factually incorrect sentiment. It's just not universalizable - a practically impossible feat. But the CRM has nothing to do with Trumps comments about illegal immigrants and Muslims, which is what has been laughably called racist, which is what Eastwood is talking about.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I understand the way you're addressing the issue, but Eastwood isn't being intellectual or remotely intelligent in this comment. As we've already been discussing, this is pure emotion. Sure, it isn't 100% "factually incorrect" - but it is a historically ignorant statement. Eastwood might be referring to immigration and Islam, but his comment specifically references a period of history when our modern conception of race and racism have little bearing.
I'm not even saying that I disagree with his overall complaint, which I assume is directed primarily toward internet guardians. But it's erroneous to equate the qualifications of racism prior to 1960 with the qualifications of racism today.
I'm not even saying that I disagree with his overall complaint, which I assume is directed primarily toward internet guardians. But it's erroneous to equate the qualifications of racism prior to 1960 with the qualifications of racism today.
Dak
mentat
Sure he's being emotional/unintellectual about it. I do think we can equate qualifications of racism prior to 1960 with qualifications of racism today and say they are all generally bullshit.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I'm sorry, I can't square that. That statement strikes me as wholly inaccurate.You have an allergy to any kind of discourse that attempts to address racism after the nineteenth century, and I can't find anything to grab onto in claims like the one above. It's as though you think that racism vanished when slavery was abolished.
Dak
mentat
You have an allergy to any kind of discourse that attempts to address racism after the nineteenth century, and I can't find anything to grab onto in claims like the one above. It's as though you think that racism vanished when slavery was abolished.
I don't know where you get that idea from, but it's incorrect. It's pretty hard to have a legitimate conversation today about what constitutes racism when race doesn't even exist but Muslim is a race.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Saying that "race is a construct" doesn't mean "race doesn't exist."
Islam isn't a race.
I'm sorry if I've misunderstood you, but it's difficult to parse your attitude toward race. You basically said that accusations/critiques of racism prior to the 1960s were "bullshit." That is also "incorrect."
Islam isn't a race.
I'm sorry if I've misunderstood you, but it's difficult to parse your attitude toward race. You basically said that accusations/critiques of racism prior to the 1960s were "bullshit." That is also "incorrect."
Dak
mentat
That's how it's parsed by most people who accept the "race is a construct" argument, as well as those who make it. I heard it more than once from college professors, so you can't claim ignorance of the masses in interpretation alone.
Right, it's a religion. But if I said I was in favor of strict immigration measures against people from Muslim countries guess what I'd be called? Certainly not a "religionist".
What I was referring to was the "Great America of the 50s" which included Jim Crow laws - which by some wasn't considered "racist". Of course Jim Crow laws et al were racist. But today, saying that many people illegally crossing the Mexican border are breaking one or more laws is "racist". Mexican isn't a race, it's a nationality. Islam isn't a race, it's a religion. Etc.
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