Einherjar86
Active Member
Sorry about the delay in responding, school is picking up after SB finished. If I understand you accurately, you're saying that IQ tests can't measure behavioral outcomes? That's true in a technical sense, but they correlate quite well.
No need to apologize, but I'm kinda losing interest in this.
Damn, his posts are always so long.
I can bash Peterson without the attack on "postmodernism." The more things I read the less impressed I am with Peterson. Nathan Robinson just published a very entertaining critique on Current Affairs, in which he actually takes Peterson's writing to task (for which I'm grateful, since there's no way I'm slogging through that shit). Long story short, he basically accuses Peterson of either promoting vapid platitudes (e.g. "be yourself," "be honest," etc.), presenting obvious ideas as profound insights, or making no sense at all. He quotes a lot in this piece, and it merely confirms my suspicions.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve
A few gems:
Peterson’s writing style constantly adds convolutions to disguise the simplicity of his mind; so he won’t say “the man’s cancer metastasized,” he will say the man “fell prey to the tendency of that dread condition to metastasize.” The harder people have to work to figure out what you’re saying, the more accomplished they’ll feel when they figure it out, and the more sophisticated you will appear. Everybody wins.
A few more Petersonisms:
- “There is no being without imperfection.” No shit.
- “To share does not mean to give away something you value and get nothing back. That is instead what every child who refuses to share fears it means. To share means, properly, to initiate the process of trade.” Could mean anything, depending on interpretation: if I share my food with a hungry person, and ask for nothing in return, I may still have “gotten something.” But the maxim could also be interpreted as a defense of avarice. You can find a justification in it for whatever your worldview already is.
- “You can’t make rules for the exceptional.” By definition.
- “The future is the place of all potential monsters.” The future is the place for all potential everything.
- “People do not care whether or not they succeed; they care about whether or not they fail.” Which is apparently different.
- “People aren’t after happiness, they’re after not hurting.” I’m actually after happiness, thanks.
- “Life is suffering. That’s clear. There is no more basic, irrefutable truth.” Anything is “irrefutable” if it’s not clear what we mean by it.
- “You cannot be protected from the things that frighten you and hurt you, but if you identify with the part of your being that is responsible for transformation, then you are always the equal, or more than the equal of the things that frighten you.” Unless you are frightened of leopards, and are subsequently eaten by leopards.
Peterson will vacillate between seeming to claim that nature implies a clear and virtuous hierarchical order of things and insisting that he is not precluding criticism of the existing order of things. When he seems to be saying something fallacious (e.g. hierarchies are okay because natural) he will qualify it with a caveat that means he is saying nothing at all (e.g. natural things are sometimes okay but not always). Sam Harris, who is sympathetic to Peterson’s political stances, has pointed out in exasperation that many of Peterson’s claims about the foundations of good conduct are either unsupported or do not make sense:
Has human evolution actually selected for males that closely conform to the heroism of St. George? And is this really the oldest story we know? Aren’t there other stories just as old, reflecting quite different values that might also have adaptive advantages? And in what sense do archetypes even exist? … sn’t it obvious that most of what we consider ethical—indeed, almost everything we value—now stands outside the logic of evolution? Caring for disabled children would most likely have been maladaptive for our ancestors during any conditions of scarcity—while cannibalism recommended itself from time to time in every corner of the globe. How much inspiration should we draw from the fact that killing and eating children is also an ancient “archetype”?
There’s no good reason for turning to evolution and the animal kingdom for moral advice, yet this is what Peterson recommends. Or doesn’t. I am dreading the inevitable emails insisting that I just don’t understand Peterson, containing copious quotes in which he insists he is saying the opposite of things he seems to be saying elsewhere. (By the way, an amusing aside: a few years ago my colleague Oren Nimni and I wrote a parody of nonsensical academic grand theory called Blueprints for a Sparkling Tomorrow, which literally happens to contain a passage recommending that human beings look to lobsters for moral advice: “We therefore propose a substitute outlet for humankind’s affections: the arthropod. Anyone who has attended a lobster wedding knows full well the kind of profundity and romanticism of which these divine creatures are capable. Yet the arthropod languishes in America’s batting-cages and seafood joints, stripped of its potential and dismissed in its attempts to make edifying contributions to civic life.” Peterson’s failure to credit us borders on academic malpractice.)
To the extent Peterson has any kind of response to the charges that he is making all of this up, it’s just that… imagination is real:
What’s common across all human experience across all time… there are moral, or metaphysical, or phenomenological realities that have the same nature. You can’t see them in your life by observing them with your senses, but you can imagine them with your imagination, and sometimes the things that you imagine with your imagination are more real than the things that you see…
And when an interviewer asked him why people should believe the myths he cites, Peterson’s response is that, well, you might as well take something seriously because life is serious, damn it, and a catastrophe awaits you:
INTERVIEWER: Because a lot of people just look at these stories like Tiamat and Marduk or the Christ story and the Bible stories and say, “Well, that’s just … Those are nice stories, but I’m not going to take it seriously.” What’s the case you make, because I know actually—
PETERSON: Well, what are you going to take seriously, then? You’re going to take nothing seriously. Well, good luck with that, because serious things are coming your way. If you’re not prepared for them by an equal metaphysical seriousness, they will flatten you. You can be dismissive with regards to wisdom, but that doesn’t protect you from the coming catastrophe.
(This is not a persuasive argument.)
Anyway, long quotes and I have nothing to add. At some point certain things just aren't worth thinking about anymore.