If Mort Divine ruled the world

[CiG]

I don't follow, are you two upset at the old definition or the new one? If the old, why are we talking about it?

My issue is with both definitions, but the main issue for me is that it doesn't include penetration by coercion.

 

[rms]

That's a very murky ground that could not stand in a court of law

 

[CiG]

Understandably so, but if that's the case people need to stop using rape statistics to prove gender inequality, because that's a huge chunk of female on male rape that can't be accounted for, therefore the statistics don't reflect reality.

 

[rms]

Gender inequality for rape is already bogus, prison male rape is outlandish.

 

[CiG]

That's very true.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

I'm kind of sick of the prison rape argument. I mean do you really give a shit about what scumbag is getting raped? fuck em.

 

[rms]

Should people really care about girls and boys who decide self control is less important than 'having a good time' ?

 

[CiG]

I care about prison rape, for sure.
Prisons are supposed to stop criminals committing crime.

 

[Mort Divine]

Ideally, but rarely in practice. At least here in the US. They function more as a way to make money off the poor by effectively encouraging high recidivism.

 

[rms]

I think it's almost impossible to determine the deterrence of criminal punishment and 'fear mongering' of prison sentences, so I don't think that's a fair statement.

I think prisons make more off the government than the poor, especially those elites who enjoy seeing 'felons' locked away. I think this is one of those unintended consequences Dak mentioned a page or two ago.

 

[CiG]

Apparently now Bill Cosby is evidence of rape culture because people are defending him/taking his side.

 

[Matt]

Well, it is pretty terrible that people are doing that

 

[CiG]

Simple celebrity worship.
Nothing new, nothing special, shit all to do with the theory that society encourages and promotes rape.

 

[Dak]

Prisons were a terrible idea from day one.

 

[rms]

What's the alternative?

 

[CiG]

Human sacrifice aka capital punishment?

 

[Dak]

Prisons are not an effective deterrent, they are expensive, and increase recidivism. Compared to an incarceration model, I believe a restitution model to be far superior.

 

[CiG]

Are prisons supposed to be a deterrent? Always thought about this myself, sure it is perhaps somewhat true that it could be a deterrent, seems much more like a punishment to me though.

The fact that it unequivocally fails to deter is a point against it I guess.

 

[Dak]

Fertility isn't the same as sexuality, and cultural fascination with fertility does not translate into sexuality as a central component for an individual's identity.

No it's not the same thing, but up until just recently they were inextricable. If you don't think that sexuality was a central component for an individuals identity, and in fact a central component of the entire culture, this requires ignoring some very glaring history that crosses culture and geography. If we just look at the Judeo roots of Judeo Christian culture, the founding texts are dated from between 1200-600BC, and the Torah is consumed with sexually related rules, while the historical portions (whether true or not is irrelevant for this point) often revolve around either expressing masculinity or femininity or denying such to captives/losers in war and politics.

Although we have less clearly written histories and laws for other Levantine and early mediterranean cultures, the admonition in the Torah to not "be like the other nations" in large part by sexual restriction, combined with centrality of fertility deities, significantly suggests cultures consumed with sexual expression which placed, in light of fertility deities and phallic statues, an even greater emphasis and centrality on sexual identity than what we do today.

As far as the crisis of gender identity goes, it isn't a crisis for those who feel a certain way - it was made into a crisis by people who told them they weren't supposed to feel that way.

The identity crises goes beyond gender identities, and isn't about or rooted in a small but increasing subset of the population that have other "feels" than what aligns with the mainstream expression of gender alignment with sexual organs.That is but one crisis within the broad crises.

@Cassette:

Enlightenment ideas of utilitarianism and rationalism, and suggested that prisons should simply be used as a more effective substitute for public corporal punishments such as whipping, hanging, etc. This theory, often referred to as deterrence, claims that the primary purpose of prisons is to be so harsh and terrifying that they deter people from committing crime out of fear of going to prison. The second theory, which saw prisons as a form of rehabilitation or moral reform, was based on religious ideas that equated crime with sin, and saw prisons as a place to instruct prisoners in Christian morality, obedience and proper behavior. These later reformers believed that prisons could be constructed as humane institutions of moral instruction, and that prisoners' behavior could be "corrected" so that when they were released, they would be model members of society.

Primarily utilitarian philosophers argued that prisons would offer both deterrence and rehabilitation. They have failed miserably on both counts, and are extremely expensive to boot.

 

[rms]

Prisons are not an effective deterrent, they are expensive, and increase recidivism. Compared to an incarceration model, I believe a restitution model to be far superior.

What do you mean about a restitution model, eye for and eye?

Are prisons supposed to be a deterrent? Always thought about this myself, sure it is perhaps somewhat true that it could be a deterrent, seems much more like a punishment to me though.

The fact that it unequivocally fails to deter is a point against it I guess.

Who knows if I don't commit violent crimes because i'm not mentally imbalanced, scared of a prison sentence or not culturally veered towards it.