Impulse method shootout with real amp!

[noarin]

Hi guys,

I did this small test based on 006's test on pre-amp+power section in Revalver.

Here are four clips in random order, setup is Gibson LP studio+ into Brunetti Revolution 120 watt. I use a presonus firepod as my interface.

The clips have:

- Brunetti FX send -> impulse (Recabinet Ghandi 4x12 57 EL34 cap)
- Brunetti Pre-amp out -> impulse (Recabinet Ghandi 4x12 57 EL34 cap)
- Brunetti speaker out -> Palmer PDI03 Speaker simulator
- Brunetti speaker out -> Palmer PDI03 Line out (so this includes the revo's power section) -> Impulse (Recabinet Ghandi 4x12 57 EL34 cap)

These are all damn obvious I guess. All in 16-bit stereo interleaved wave files. (Panned left like Moonlapse did in his test)

http://stud.hro.nl/0762457/01.wav
http://stud.hro.nl/0762457/02.wav
http://stud.hro.nl/0762457/03.wav
http://stud.hro.nl/0762457/04.wav

So this is kind of the same as the other test, but with a real amp and real power section.

The difference between just pre-amp into impulse and pre-amp + power amp into impulse is quite drastic IMO. Which .wav do you like best?

Just my two cents..

Rob

 

[noarin]

will try a clip with the presence on the amps power section a bit lower later on..

 

[006]

Will have to check it out when I get home but I'm very curious to hear the difference. Glad you did it!

~006

 

[Ermz]

After a brief listen:

1 & 4 are the FX Send and Preamp Out into Revalver. Not sure which is which, as I wouldn't know the differences between them.
2 is the Palmer speaker sim.
3 Is Recab with the power section also. Sounds more compressed, but also more grainy.

Thanks for doing the test. I was always curious about how getting the power amp into it would sound. I think 3 (what I'm assuming is pre + power section) is the best. It's a bit too compressed and grainy compared to direct pre, but at the same time the ability to turn up the presence has made up for Recabinet's lack of high end somewhat better, and the extra saturation is nice.

@006: This thread ain't too gearslutty for you?

 

[006]

Haha Ermin

I have to say I agree with you on the choices there.

~006

 

[fistula]

Haha Ermin

I have to say I agree with you on the choices there.

~006

+1

 

[noarin]

heheh
The master volume of the amp was cranked like hell; which explains the heavy compression and saturation. I'll back it off a bit in the next clips..

I love the clip with pre-amp + power amp.
Here's a picture of the wave forms:

The one with the most peaks is the one with pre-amp + power amp!

 

[noarin]

here's two more; very obvious again.

first one is preamp out, second one is poweramp out. I love the saturation.
Line them up in your DAW and switch between them solo'd to hear the differences more obviously!

I can't imagine how this would not improve the sound if you quad track etc even more.
For me it's preamp+poweramp + impulses, from now on

http://stud.hro.nl/0762457/preampout.wav
http://stud.hro.nl/0762457/powerampout.wav

 

[noarin]

and this time with Marcus' impulse (Sm57 On Axis 2 More presence)
Thanks Moonlapse!

http://stud.hro.nl/0762457/preampout2.wav
http://stud.hro.nl/0762457/powerampout2.wav

edit: fixed 2nd link

 

[Wild Hades]

This comparison is VERY interesting!
Thanks for doing it!

 

[Ermz]

Wow, it really does seem to sound more natural with the power amp in there. Almost makes me regret not getting an attenuator instead of a dummy load. I was afraid I'd destroy the line-in inputs on my audio interface if the attenuator went haywire. You may want to rename your last link there so that it's a valid one.

Sounds better with Marcus' impulses fo'sho. You're very welcome.

 

[noarin]

No problem Wild Hades and I've fixed the 2nd link Moonlapse, thanks!

I don't think you'd have to worry about your attenuator going haywire; most of them (Hotplate/Palmer/Load Box) are rock solid!
I just love the saturation and high end it adds, sounds a lot more natural indeed.

Btw: Just for info:

Pre-amp section = 5x JJ ECC83S
Power amp section = 1x JJ E34L MQ (MQ = Matched Quartet)
(brand new tubes, about 2 weeks old or something)

and this is the amp:

Can't wait for Marcus' new impulses.. hurry it up already

 

[Wild Hades]

I've played a bit with your last 2 clips, since I wanted to figure out what the power-amp really adds to the tone other than just eq (since it was cranked loud)...
So I've basically extracted the impulse of the power-amp (containing also the Palmer eq) and applyed it to the preamp out tone...

Here are the clips (same volume level):
https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/432451/NoarinComparison.rar

Can you guys figure out which one has the real power-amp sound and which one has the power-amp impulse applied?

 

[noarin]

I'd say the 2n one is the real power amp.. but damnit are they close

Can you explain what you mean by the Palmer EQ? The signal goes from head -> palmer and then from palmer line out -> presonus firepod.
Does the Palmer shape the sound that comes into it before it sends it through the line out? in other words; would there be a difference if you used another attenuator?

Also, I've seen you do a very complicated equation on Guitar Amp Modeling that completely eliminates the power amp section out of an impulse file.. Would you consider that usable for these kinds of shootouts?

 

[noarin]

small clip with pre+power section into Recabinet and Marcus' impulse,, I'm not so strong at drums and bass; but just wanted to try it.. went a little overboard on cutting the highs on the guitars most likely..

http://stud.hro.nl/0762457/smallclip.mp3

 

[Ermz]

I've played a bit with your last 2 clips, since I wanted to figure out what the power-amp really adds to the tone other than just eq (since it was cranked loud)...
So I've basically extracted the impulse of the power-amp (containing also the Palmer eq) and applyed it to the preamp out tone...

Here are the clips (same volume level):
https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/432451/NoarinComparison.rar

Can you guys figure out which one has the real power-amp sound and which one has the power-amp impulse applied?

Did a really quick listen and I'll say #2. More of an instinctual response and less a thought out one. Very close though! Seems impulses can somewhat adequately replicate power amp sections.

... I don't feel so bad about getting a dummy load anymore

 

[Wild Hades]

Yep, 2nd clip is the real power-amp tone... is a little bit fuller/fatter, not a huge difference, probably unnoticeable on a full mix...