In dire need of your metal mixing advice

[Black neon bob]

I had this in word and keep it beside my mixing sessions to get a decent mix... it's a qoute since it's from someone else, i just dont know where i got it anymore.. anyway, have a look at this:


"When I first started doing my own recordings I found that the hardest part of the mix was getting EQs right. So I scoured the Internet for advice and made myself a list of problems EQ ranges. I have since added to this list usuing my own experience.

You will still have to use your ears to find that "sweet spot" but it should at least point out the problem areas for you.

Here's the list.

Kick Drum EQ
1. Boost 35-80Hz for more power on the bottom end.
2. Boost at 75-150Hz to add thump.
3. Cut 250-500Hz to eliminate the boxy sound.
4. Boost 3-5kHz for more of the sharp attack.

Snare EQ
1. Roll off everything below 100Hz.
2. Boost 100-300Hz to fatten it up.
3. Cut 500-1000Hz eliminate low end boxiness.
4. Boost 3-5 kHz to add attack.
5. Boost 6-7kHz to add air.
6. Boost 8-15 kHz to add snap.

Tom EQ
1. Cut in 300-800Hz.
2. Boost around 240Hz for more body on the rack toms.
3. Boost 80-100Hz for more body on the low toms.
4. Boost 4-6kHz for sharper attack.
5. Boost 8-12.5kHz for more high end snap.

Hi Hat EQ
1. Roll off everything below 200-300Hz.
2. Boost 300-600Hz for a thick sound.
3. Boost 6-7kHz for a thin sound.
4. Cut at 1.5k to reduce metal sound.
5. Boost 7-8kHz for more brightness.

Overhead EQ
1. Roll off from around 150Hz on down.
2. Cut in 300-400Hz area.
3. Cut at 800Hz for a tighter sound.
4. Boost at 5-6khz to enhance the cymbal strike
5. High-Shelf 10-12.5kHz for brighter airy sound.

Bass Guitar
1. Mud generally happens in the 200-300Hz range, cut just a little if bass lacks definition.
2. Roll off from around 80-50Hz on down to tighten up the bottom.
3. Boost between 100-200Hz if bass sounds flat or thin.
4. Boost between 500Hz-800Hz for more string pluck and high end definition.
5. Boost between 2.5-5kHz accentuates the attack, adding a little brightness.

Electric Guitar
1. Roll off below 100Hz to get rid of any bottom end that is not needed.
2. Boost between 120-250Hz adds warmth.
3. Cut from 250-500Hz if it sounds boxy.
4. Add mids from 900Hz-3.5kHz for clarity.
5. A boost at around 4-7 kHz can add some bite.

Acoustic Guitar
1. Cut from 80-200Hz range to reduce boom. Cutting around 300Hz may help as well.
2. Boosting a little at 700Hz-1.2kHz for more of the resonant sound of the body of the guitar.
3. Boosting from 7-10kHz will give you a brighter edge.
4. The pluck or sound of the pick on the strings is around 10kHz.

Acoustic Piano
1. Boost around 3kHz gives a piano more cut or edge.
2. Boost at 12kHz for more airy sound.

Vocal
1. Boost 200Hz to add fullness
2. Boost 3kHz for more hard-edged stand out vocal cut 3kHz softer sounding vocal.
3. Boost 5kHz for more vocal presence.
4. Cut 4-7kHz to reduce "S" sound of vocal boost to sharpen a dull singer.
5. Cut 10kHz to reduce "S" sound boost to brighten vocal.
6. Boost 15kHz to brighten vocal.

If anybody wants to add some pearls of wisdom then please do. EQing is such a black art we can always learn something new.

I hope you find this usesful.

Paul"

And that's it... this should help a lot i think Bob.. have a try and let us hear your new mix whenever it's done, ok?

BTW: the soloing is amazing man!!

 

[Bob Savage]

1) The Bass tone is what is causing you too loose clarity in the guitars. They are so much clearer without. So you realy gotta work on the bass EQ so it does not compete with the guitars.

Cool, well, it looks like time to figure out how to get a good bass tone.

2) You have to replace that kick drum with a better sounding sample set. If you did the EQ I suggested and it still sounds that flat you are not going to get a clear metal kick out of that drum.

I do believe that based on the type of kit, that's pretty close to as good as it's going to be for "metal," however, it's also possible that I didn't EQ it properly. How do you go about it? What I did is stick the frequency about in the middle of your suggestion, and set the Q so that it extended just beyond the range you gave. Should I be doing this differently?

3) Snare pops a bit more with the bass out but I think you need to work on the compression it gets lost in the mix.

I suck badly at compression, and while the compressor that comes with Samplitude seems nice, like all the other plugins they provide, it doesn't seem as easy to use as conventional compressors. But still, I suck at setting up compressors, so I'll take the blame. Do you know of any online documents that might help me understand exactly what I'm doing with compressors? The Fiddling With Parameters Method® doesn't seem to be working like I had hoped.

All in all I bet if you sound replace the kick and fix the Bass EQ you will be really suprised with how your mix will sound.

I think I'm going to have time tomorrow, so maybe I'll take a shot at getting the kick/bass fixed!

Are those guitars Bogner heads? I checked out your web page. If so what kind? and what guitars?

I used a Bogner Uberschall for all the tracks on this one. I have a modified Shiva (it's nice to be Reinhold's friend!) that I prefer for solo work, but I had a wild hair up my rear to do everything with the Uberschall on this one. I use Vigier guitars. On this track, it's a Vigier Excalibur Original. I have an Excalibur Custom that would actually have been a better fit for the track because it's less "vintage" sounding, but something got hosed up on the wiring, so I need to fix that before I plug it in again.

 

[Bob Savage]

I had this in word and keep it beside my mixing sessions to get a decent mix... it's a qoute since it's from someone else, i just dont know where i got it anymore.. anyway, have a look at this:


"When I first started doing my own recordings I found that the hardest part of the mix was getting EQs right. So I scoured the Internet for advice and made myself a list of problems EQ ranges. I have since added to this list usuing my own experience.
<snip>
And that's it... this should help a lot i think Bob.. have a try and let us hear your new mix whenever it's done, ok?

BTW: the soloing is amazing man!!

Very nice! Thanks for the guidelines, I've stuck them in a Word document for future reference.

Thank you for the kind words on the soloing.

Bob

 

[evildonkeymaster]

I do believe that based on the type of kit, that's pretty close to as good as it's going to be for "metal," however, it's also possible that I didn't EQ it properly. How do you go about it? What I did is stick the frequency about in the middle of your suggestion, and set the Q so that it extended just beyond the range you gave. Should I be doing this differently?.

I need more info here. You are using Samplitude right? I am pretty sure you can use VST plug ins. You need Drumagog or ApTrigga then search the forum for Andy's kick samples or use some you may have. You should totally replace that kick. I base this opinon on the fact that you have tweaked the hell out of the EQ and it still is not fitting into a more "metal" tone. BTW, what kind of mic did you use on the kick, where was it placed and what kind of preamp was it plugged into.

If you want post up an MP3 of a kick hit or two and a snare hit or two and I can mess with them and give you some better tips. But I am 99% sure you need to sound replace the kick (Drumagog etc).

I suck badly at compression, and while the compressor that comes with Samplitude seems nice, like all the other plugins they provide, it doesn't seem as easy to use as conventional compressors. But still, I suck at setting up compressors, so I'll take the blame. Do you know of any online documents that might help me understand exactly what I'm doing with compressors? The Fiddling With Parameters Method® doesn't seem to be working like I had hoped.?.

PM me and send a screen shot of your comp and I can give you a quick run down.

I used a Bogner Uberschall for all the tracks on this one. I have a modified Shiva (it's nice to be Reinhold's friend!) that I prefer for solo work, but I had a wild hair up my rear to do everything with the Uberschall on this one. I use Vigier guitars. On this track, it's a Vigier Excalibur Original. I have an Excalibur Custom that would actually have been a better fit for the track because it's less "vintage" sounding, but something got hosed up on the wiring, so I need to fix that before I plug it in again.

Kick ass. I love the Uber but I am too cheap to buy one. I actualy like the Rhythm tone on the Shiva better. Tell ya what how about you get me al your raw tracks I mess with them and give you tips on mixing the track then you get me a free Bogner Uber since you are Reinhold's friend

 

[Bob Savage]

I need more info here. You are using Samplitude right? I am pretty sure you can use VST plug ins. You need Drumagog or ApTrigga then search the forum for Andy's kick samples or use some you may have. You should totally replace that kick. I base this opinon on the fact that you have tweaked the hell out of the EQ and it still is not fitting into a more "metal" tone. BTW, what kind of mic did you use on the kick, where was it placed and what kind of preamp was it plugged into.

Are either Drumagog or ApTrigga free? I ask because right now, I'm not in a position to spend money on more gear.

If you want post up an MP3 of a kick hit or two and a snare hit or two and I can mess with them and give you some better tips. But I am 99% sure you need to sound replace the kick (Drumagog etc).

I greatly appreciate it, but I think you're right on the replacement.

PM me and send a screen shot of your comp and I can give you a quick run down.

Yeah, I use Samp 8.2. Here are two shots, one is the standard compressor they call "advanced dynamics". In the shot I used, it's their standard snare setting, which is what I used. I can also eliminate the 2nd compressor in that plugin (which just doubly confuses me anyway, since I don't know what it's for). The other is the multiband.

http://junk.bobsavage.net/SampComp.jpg
http://junk.bobsavage.net/SampMultComp.jpg

Kick ass. I love the Uber but I am too cheap to buy one. I actualy like the Rhythm tone on the Shiva better. Tell ya what how about you get me al your raw tracks I mess with them and give you tips on mixing the track then you get me a free Bogner Uber since you are Reinhold's friend

Well, considering I don't even get the amps for free, let me think about it... NO! The reason I mentioned Reinhold is because the modded Shiva... I wouldn't have that modded one if it were not being a friend. He hasn't modded amps for the "public" in years.

By the way, all of this makes me very happy that I decided to have somebody else mix my album... not to mention master it. I've always thought I was decent at mixing, but the more I look at it, the more I realize I suck at it.

Thanks for all the help dude, I wish you were in So Cal so I could buy you a beer or twelve.

 

[neverpurify]

Drumagog is not free but is well worth the money when it comes to replacing certain hits. Those samples that Andy posted have been working well for some people so that may be a good place to start. I'm willing to bet that even with the kick that you are using now that a decent sound can be pulled out of it with EQing and compression. I'd like to have a copy of the kick and a copy of the snare track just to see what I could do with it.

 

[Bob Savage]

Drumagog is not free but is well worth the money when it comes to replacing certain hits. Those samples that Andy posted have been working well for some people so that may be a good place to start. I'm willing to bet that even with the kick that you are using now that a decent sound can be pulled out of it with EQing and compression. I'd like to have a copy of the kick and a copy of the snare track just to see what I could do with it.

Ugh... There was a time when "well worth the money" meant I was about to drop some coin, but right now things have tightened up and all my fun money is going towards another project, which I'm way overbudget on already.

I'll see about exporting an unprocessed kick/snare today.

 

[evildonkeymaster]

Ugh... There was a time when "well worth the money" meant I was about to drop some coin, but right now things have tightened up and all my fun money is going towards another project, which I'm way overbudget on already.

I'll see about exporting an unprocessed kick/snare today.

Too bad Drumagog would solve the kick issue. Post up th samples and we can all mess with them and maybe save it for you.

Oh and I just moved from So Cal to Nashville like 3 month ago ha ha. But I was there on biz all last week.

 

[Bob Savage]

Too bad Drumagog would solve the kick issue. Post up th samples and we can all mess with them and maybe save it for you.

Oh and I just moved from So Cal to Nashville like 3 month ago ha ha. But I was there on biz all last week.

Well, this is just a learning journey for me anyway, so there's not much saving except what I learn from you guys! Metal has changed SO much since I played "metal" in Hirax back in the 80's.

Anyway, next time you're here in So Cal, you must look me up. Shoot me an e-mail from my website and we can exchange phone numbers. I have a friend at Bogner (Greg V) who is probably moving out your way very soon. He's not metal, but holy smokes, the dude can play!

Oh, back to me... hahahaha... I've been screwing off all day and I'm not sure the wife is going to let me goof off on the computer much longer, so the samples might have to wait. I'll do what I can!

 

[Bob Savage]

Yeah, I use Samp 8.2. Here are two shots, one is the standard compressor they call "advanced dynamics". In the shot I used, it's their standard snare setting, which is what I used. I can also eliminate the 2nd compressor in that plugin (which just doubly confuses me anyway, since I don't know what it's for). The other is the multiband.

http://junk.bobsavage.net/SampComp.jpg
http://junk.bobsavage.net/SampMultComp.jpg

Hey EDM, did you get a chance to checkout these images? Got any tips for snare, and perhaps also bass settings?

 

[James Murphy]

Kick Drum EQ
1. Boost 35-80Hz for more power on the bottom end.

i haven't looked over the rest of the list yet... but i wouldn't really advise boosting much anywhere near 35hz.

 

[Black neon bob]

Agreed...

I prefer around 60-80 Hz... that should work fine... 35 is a bit drastic eh? feel free to improve anything on that list you don't like, it's a list i copied from someone (can't remember where and who though)... so if anyone sees something that seems incorrect.. improve it, since i don't want to be guilty of screwin up someone's mix

 

[Bob Savage]

Agreed...

I prefer around 60-80 Hz... that should work fine... 35 is a bit drastic eh? feel free to improve anything on that list you don't like, it's a list i copied from someone (can't remember where and who though)... so if anyone sees something that seems incorrect.. improve it, since i don't want to be guilty of screwin up someone's mix

No worries dude, I would never boost that low... unless I was doing hip hop or something.

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Agreed...

I prefer around 60-80 Hz... that should work fine... 35 is a bit drastic eh? feel free to improve anything on that list you don't like, it's a list i copied from someone (can't remember where and who though)... so if anyone sees something that seems incorrect.. improve it, since i don't want to be guilty of screwin up someone's mix

I'm thinking more like 125-250, at least thats what works for me.

35 is completely fucking subsonic, noone can hear that low. You might FEEL it but it's just rumbling anyway.

 

[Bob Savage]

I'm thinking more like 125-250, at least thats what works for me.

35 is completely fucking subsonic, noone can hear that low. You might FEEL it but it's just rumbling anyway.

I think the technical terminology for 30Hz-45Hz is Sack Rattling®.

 

[Exocaster]

No worries dude, I would never boost that low... unless I was doing hip hop or something.

I wanna hear Bob shred over some hip hop beats.

 

[Bob Savage]

I wanna hear Bob shred over some hip hop beats.

On the amp forum at Harmony Central, we often have "forum jams" where somebody will put up a backing track and various folks will throw down some self indulgent, gratuitous wanking over it. I don't know about pure hip-hop, but I've got some pretty bizarre stuff here on disk...