In Flames lyrics discussion

[DE4life]

Right, since myself and Jester313 were beginning to take the ASOP thread spectacularly off topic I figured I'd just create a thread to discuss lyrics perhaps it can also be used for when the SOAPF lyrics are officially released to discuss them.

My view on the lyrical merit of the albums thus far goes something like...

Clayman
Colony
TJR
Whoracle
R2R
Come Clarity
STYE
ASOP

I haven't counted Lunar Strain or Sub on the basis Anders didn't write the lyrics for those and it wouldn't really make sense to discuss them in comparison with the other albums.

My general opinion is that R2R marked the beginning of the decline of Anders lyrical work, with simpler and more basic lyrics designed to fit in the more mainstream vocal melodies designed for their songs. STYE and ASOP have been overall low points IMO.

Anyway Jester313, to answer your reply in the other thread...

One, I think the line "Cloud connected" is just great. Two, Metaphor you have to look at as a whole song and it is amazing. Is it about someone he cares deeply for? Is it a drug problem? Three, it's probably pointless for me to discuss STYE lyrics with you. Haha.

Two words do not make a set of lyrics great my friend I have no idea what he means by Cloud Connected to be honest, I'm not sure Anders does either it just sounds cool due to the alliteration.

I like Metaphor, but the lyrics are a bit "boo hoo, woe is me" which I'm not a huge fan of lyrics like "Clayman" and "OFTW" are better.Also "Scorn" is fucking powerful lyrically.

And discussing STYE with me in general is probably not a smart thing to do

 

[Jester313]

I can agree that R2R started a simpler style of lyrics, but in terms of less metaphors used in each song. I think a lot of the songs still retain a very metaphorical essence and all are pretty much meaningful. I would say CC went back to using more metaphors with songs like Reflect the Storm, and Dead End. This might be a little unfair to me since I'm only listening to and focusing on SOAPF right now and I can't completely recall the lyrics for the other albums. But you're not a fan of "I will crawl into your vault / pass snakes and old rotten thoughts / leaving a hotbed of virulence / your world inside slowly redesigned." Maybe you don't see that as a metaphor, but Anders still uses a lot of visual imagery in his lyrics. Anyway, I won't discuss Soundtrack lyrics with you, don't worry.

 

[DE4life]

There might be a few good lyrics on STYE. But keep in mind that's the same song that starts "you take a knife and carve it in, want to see a fault as a part of your pretty skin" which, let's be blunt, could have come right off an 17 year old emo's myspace page

Borders and Shading is a weird one actually. It's like "decent lyric, awful lyric, decent lyric, awful lyric" one after the other

Then you've got songs like TQP, Like You Better Dead which lyrically suck.

To be honest, looking over the STYE lyrics I've probably been a bit harsh on them. They ain't that bad. It's the annoying emo-ish content that winds me up more than the way they're worded and expressed.

Bottled still makes me laugh with its' opening line though "I really don't have anything to say"

 

[Jester313]

You don't like "Destiny, will you cure me? Trust, will you age with me?" I think the Like You Better Dead lyrics are average but I think the chorus makes up for it. Bottled, yeah, but then the rest of the verse is, "/ just pass me by / don’t ask me the same questions / just deny I’m there. Like the time around me / this room is filled with nothing / feel awkward in a place with many / leave this space to me." Maybe I like them because I relate to them. No, I'm not emo nor do I cut myself or anything like that. But I have thought about death on a constant basis for the past few years and I like how the album deals with a lot of the mindset and emotion that comes with death. I also think Anders screams them with such emotion. I can understand you not really liking the music of Soundtrack, but I do find it a little difficult to understand how you could be so harsh on them. But, to each his own. And you do love IF so, it's cool.

 

[DE4life]

You don't like "Destiny, will you cure me? Trust, will you age with me?" I think the Like You Better Dead lyrics are average but I think the chorus makes up for it. Bottled, yeah, but then the rest of the verse is, "/ just pass me by / don’t ask me the same questions / just deny I’m there. Like the time around me / this room is filled with nothing / feel awkward in a place with many / leave this space to me." Maybe I like them because I relate to them. No, I'm not emo nor do I cut myself or anything like that. But I have thought about death on a constant basis for the past few years and I like how the album deals with a lot of the mindset and emotion that comes with death. I also think Anders screams them with such emotion. I can understand you not really liking the music of Soundtrack, but I do find it a little difficult to understand how you could be so harsh on them. But, to each his own. And you do love IF so, it's cool.

That part of the LYBD chorus is OK, but it's followed by "hear me scream as I face tomorrow" which kind of negates how good the first part was you have to say most of the lyrics for LYBD are really childish.

I suppose I can understand STYE appealing to people with a certain mindset. I don't ever think about death and I don't self-pity, so I guess STYE just has nothing to say to me. In the majority of the songs I feel like telling Anders to grow a fucking pair and stop whining, and I cannot ever imagine singing a lot of the lyrics at a concert (though In Flames thankfully do not play anything other than TQP and MSS off STYE live nowadays anyway).

Regarding Bottled, I just find the first line amusing lyrics for it aren't terrible. Shame about the rest of it

 

[Erik Erna]

I like a majority of the lyrics with some of the hit and miss exceptions of pure laziness. The Jester Race - Colony are my favorite, really like Lunar Strain as well. However, we're dealing with several different lyricists here. Mikael Stanne, Henke Forss, Niklas Sundin and Anders Friden.

Lunar Strain, The Jester Race and Whoracle are my absolute favorites, so we're dealing with Stanne and Sundin. Being a big Dark Tranquillity fan, its no wonder I am a big fan of these.

However for Anders, Colony and R2R are my favorites from him.

 

[DE4life]

I could be wrong, but from what I understand in TJR Anders thought up the concepts and Sundin helped him put them into English, whereas on Whoracle Anders pretty much wrote all the lyrics than Sundin translated it into English. Though it's hard to say what liberties he took with those words.

The ideas in TJR & Whoracle are definitely still Anders' though, he explains them fairly well on the Koln 96 vid. I guess he just wanted them to sound impressive, and his English hadn't developed enough yet to put them across how he wanted.

 

[Jester313]

I could be wrong, but from what I understand in TJR Anders thought up the concepts and Sundin helped him put them into English, whereas on Whoracle Anders pretty much wrote all the lyrics than Sundin translated it into English. Though it's hard to say what liberties he took with those words.

The ideas in TJR & Whoracle are definitely still Anders' though, he explains them fairly well on the Koln 96 vid. I guess he just wanted them to sound impressive, and his English hadn't developed enough yet to put them across how he wanted.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right. The concepts for TJR and Whoracle were Anders' and then I think Colony was written by Anders then translated by Sundin.

 

[Jester313]

That part of the LYBD chorus is OK, but it's followed by "hear me scream as I face tomorrow" which kind of negates how good the first part was you have to say most of the lyrics for LYBD are really childish.

I suppose I can understand STYE appealing to people with a certain mindset. I don't ever think about death and I don't self-pity, so I guess STYE just has nothing to say to me. In the majority of the songs I feel like telling Anders to grow a fucking pair and stop whining, and I cannot ever imagine singing a lot of the lyrics at a concert (though In Flames thankfully do not play anything other than TQP and MSS off STYE live nowadays anyway).

Regarding Bottled, I just find the first line amusing lyrics for it aren't terrible. Shame about the rest of it

Like I said, I do think about death, but I don't self-pity. I do self-hate though because I feel it's the only way to better myself. And I don't think he's whining because a lot of people go through worse feelings and it really does help knowing that there are others, especially famous people, out there that can relate. But you not having a connection, I mean, yeah, it makes sense you don't really care for the lyrics. (I kinda like this, this is a decent and civil way to talk about this album's lyrics.) "Shame about the rest of it" haha, your favorite riff.

 

[DE4life]

I don't believe self-hatred is the right way to go about bettering yourself though. There's nothing wrong with knowing you can be better, but just because you're not at that level yet should not mean you hate yourself. I don't mean to sound like a life-guru or any of that weird shit but I think it's difficult to better yourself and be happy without first accepting who you are.

To me the STYE lyrics are self-pitying a lot of the time, it's like a more whiny version of Clayman. I mean, Clayman dealt with the same basic concepts of loneliness, bad relationships etc, but did it in a pretty classy way. To me it feels like STYE does it in a much more basic "woe is me" way, with the exception of a few of the songs.

For all its faults though, STYE is nowhere near as bad as ASOP, which is truly Anders' worst album as a lyricist.

 

[Jester313]

I don't believe self-hatred is the right way to go about bettering yourself though. There's nothing wrong with knowing you can be better, but just because you're not at that level yet should not mean you hate yourself. I don't mean to sound like a life-guru or any of that weird shit but I think it's difficult to better yourself and be happy without first accepting who you are.

To me the STYE lyrics are self-pitying a lot of the time, it's like a more whiny version of Clayman. I mean, Clayman dealt with the same basic concepts of loneliness, bad relationships etc, but did it in a pretty classy way. To me it feels like STYE does it in a much more basic "woe is me" way, with the exception of a few of the songs.

For all its faults though, STYE is nowhere near as bad as ASOP, which is truly Anders' worst album as a lyricist.

Well that's why I said it is the only way to better myself, and not one's self. I know I can be better, and I do accept myself: the hatred doesn't get in the way of that. For me, the self-hatred is what drives me. It's all very weird and it can easily not make sense, as it is very difficult for me to explain, but I feel it's right for me and it has been working. Don't get me wrong, I'm not Negative Nancy or The Chosen Pessimist or anything; I am still very optimistic. But I just work in a different way. But I will call you if I need any life coaching.

As for your second paragraph, I can see that.

And for your third, I'll agree that ASOP was his worst album lyrically, though I still like the lyrics. Fuck, I have to listen to ASOP real soon before all of everyone's negativity about it gets to me and I start hating it too.

 

[DE4life]

Well that's why I said it is the only way to better myself, and not one's self. I know I can be better, and I do accept myself: the hatred doesn't get in the way of that. For me, the self-hatred is what drives me. It's all very weird and it can easily not make sense, as it is very difficult for me to explain, but I feel it's right for me and it has been working. Don't get me wrong, I'm not Negative Nancy or The Chosen Pessimist or anything; I am still very optimistic. But I just work in a different way. But I will call you if I need any life coaching.

Haha, maybe I should have taken psychotherapy at university but seriously bro, I don't think it's self-hatred you have, that's probably the wrong way of putting it. It just seems like you analyse your weaknesses and try to erase them, which is a great mindset to have.

I'll agree that ASOP was his worst album lyrically, though I still like the lyrics. Fuck, I have to listen to ASOP real soon before all of everyone's negativity about it gets to me and I start hating it too.

Nooo... come over to the dark side, ASOP sucksss

 

[Erik Erna]

I know Anders came up with TJR and Whoracle concepts, but they were still Sundin's words. Since they weren't directly translated, I'm giving him credit for writing them. If you read something like "Inside The Particle Storm" by Dark Tranquillity, you can certainly detect his style.

On a side note, ASOP has it's moments. Alias and TCP are amazing to me.

 

[Jester313]

Haha, maybe I should have taken psychotherapy at university but seriously bro, I don't think it's self-hatred you have, that's probably the wrong way of putting it. It just seems like you analyse your weaknesses and try to erase them, which is a great mindset to have.

You could say that, or you could say what I say: "I fucking hate myself." But seriously, I find that everything can be funny, so most of my self-hatred is half sarcastic, but there is still a good amount of true hatred.

Nooo... come over to the dark side, ASOP sucksss

Haha. What can I say? Despite my hatred for just about everything in this world, I like the album. Or rather, I like the songs. As an album, there's really no variety. Do you not like Tilt, Eraser, or Abnegation?

Also, it's pretty funny how we both said we wouldn't talk about the Soundtrack lyrics, yet that's pretty much all this thread is about so far. Haha.

 

[Jester313]

It just seems like you analyse your weaknesses and try to erase them, which is a great mindset to have.

But no, you're right. I hate my weaknesses and such and do try to change them. I mean, that's really all it is. I hate the things that are bad about me and try to erase them.

 

[DE4life]

ASOP has snippets of decent lyrics. Anders is naturally talented at penning words so he's always going to come up with a few decent lines in an album. Overall, though, ASOP is not anywhere close to a true reflection of his talent and he should be disappointed with his output on ASOP in comparison to everything else they've put out.

If you gave somebody the lyrics to Clayman, then the lyrics to ASOP, you wouldn't guess the same person had written them. He really dumbed down his natural talent in so many of those songs and it sucks to see him do that. Especially as CC had a lot of really good lyrics on it.

SOAPF on the whole seems to be a real return to form though. Can't make out all of the lyrics, and there do still seem to be some real stupid lines "you'll never understand me" etc in the puzzle, but overall I'm digging a lot of what I can make out on the new album.

 

[DE4life]

Do you not like Tilt, Eraser, or Abnegation?

I very much like all three of those songs bro, but they're all on The Mirror's Truth EP. In Flames clearly felt they were too good to be on ASOP

 

[Jester313]

ASOP has snippets of decent lyrics. Anders is naturally talented at penning words so he's always going to come up with a few decent lines in an album. Overall, though, ASOP is not anywhere close to a true reflection of his talent and he should be disappointed with his output on ASOP in comparison to everything else they've put out.

If you gave somebody the lyrics to Clayman, then the lyrics to ASOP, you wouldn't guess the same person had written them. He really dumbed down his natural talent in so many of those songs and it sucks to see him do that. Especially as CC had a lot of really good lyrics on it.

SOAPF on the whole seems to be a real return to form though. Can't make out all of the lyrics, and there do still seem to be some real stupid lines "you'll never understand me" etc in the puzzle, but overall I'm digging a lot of what I can make out on the new album.

I agree. They are dumbed down and side-by-side with virtually any other album's lyrics, someone could have trouble believing they are from the same person. And yeah, SOAPF is pretty promising so far. And you're right with The Puzzle; "And I don't care what you think of me. Or maybe I do." But it's still a great song.

 

[DE4life]

I very much like The Puzzle as a song, but there are a few things about it that annoy me. That line you just quoted for example, but also the breakdown that happens half way through the song. On an older In Flames record there would have been a great little melody or riff there, not a fucking metalcore breakdown. It's frustrating, though I can overlook it as most of the rest of the song is good.

It's the same for a fair few of the songs on the record, that there are small things that frustrate me which can be overlooked. On an older record there's little or nothing I need to overlook, the songs in their entirely are close to perfect.

 

[Jester313]

So far, it seems that that line in The Puzzle is the only one that I could say bothers me. I'm happy with that. I really haven't found any breakdowns or riffs that I don't like with this album and I doubt I will. Alright, this probably could go on the SOAPF thread, so let's get back to lyrics. Anyone else want to bring up some lyrics?