In the aftermath, an honest question about anti-American sentiment.

[spikes77]

All you people have good points but i dont see alot of people saying anything good. This is like all the "african amercians" (dont want to say black people cause remember, us amercans think there beasts right?)where i live hate me and my race, because of things that americans did 100 to years ago(during the 1900s to but to a lesser degree at least here in the north) but they hate us. my grandparents were not even in this fuckin country yet, but i still get shit. So what i mean to point out here is theres alot of general statements floating around here. But remember there are still some decent people here in the u.s and alot different kinds of races. And What the u.s did is bad and what they do might be bad too but i dont think it represents our nation as a whole on an indivudual level.(on a side note whoever brought up a point about europeans of the older generation having more sense is true, the french still show hate towards america and we help there asses out in both world wars..but remember people ALL americans are evil people..

 

[Despot]

Originally posted by OctoberVision
If I come across as trying to sound helpless, It's because that is how I've felt lately. I can't change the way my government works.

Exactly my point. The fact that the average American has no input in his/her country's policies proves that democracy, just like communism, works only in theory. I feel bad for people who are aware of America's shortcomings, but have to live and put up with it.

 

[transfixed]

nothing truly works.

 

[The High Lord]

You all think your theories are right. But they aint!

Have you ever tried to take on someone in a fight bigger and stronger then you?

the arabs a clearly unprepared to take on such a country.

all they have to do to stop america bombing the shit out of them is to hand over bin lamen. they do this and they wont kill anyone.

And i think they should bomb the fuck out of the people that were celebrating in the streets to the news that many innocent people have died. also to take into acount that there are 60 of my countries people missing, 20 allready confirmed dead. probably half of the people killed were not american!

 

[BillowOfZeal]

Originally posted by E V I L
My take in the rough:

1) America authors policies etc that sometimes (callously) neglects the welfare of other nations, which, I add in defence, simply means America is not perfect.

2) America is the greatest super power. Consequently, it becomes the most scrutinized, the most criticized, its blemishes become magnified. Those who aren't american typically will be the more passionate about pointing out its faults. Here the psychosocial dynamics of resentment and envy become politicized and surface, not surprisingly, quite abruptly during events such as the recent one, or as a general rule, during times of misfortune.

America can be criticized on grounds of *1* but what does this prove? Simple answer, a little something to americans naive enough to think their country is omnibenevolent, and absolutely nothing to those who are already aware of the fallible course of American policies etc in the global stage. However, America's standing as an agency for the ideals I deeply endorse (constitutional guarentees to basic human freedoms, individuality, the pursuit to happiness, and democratic government) isn't contradicted on these grounds. It is what it is and it remains what it is indisputably.

Anti-american sentiment happens as an antithetical assertion against the naivety that holds america is "great and perfect." Otherwise it transpires more to the purpose of either *2* (ie., people get jealous and ill-willed towards other people who are greater, and do the same towards nations, and will feel the need to protest) or this: some people, living in a democratic nations, are actually socialists, hate capitalism, and would rather see the world dominated by totalitiarian regimes etc etc. To the latter group of misguided teenaged rebels (read leper affinity), a hearty FUCK YOU! Learn to appreciate the rights in which you had the luxury to think up such cliched two-dollar nonsense. (there goes the civility. Sorry metalmancpa!)

i second that FUCK YOU, thanks for the great post.

 

[S4R]

"In the end we are all fucked, it helps to remember that."
-George Carlin

 

[transfixed]

 

[Villain]

Originally posted by The High Lord
You all think your theories are right. But they aint!

Have you ever tried to take on someone in a fight bigger and stronger then you?

the arabs a clearly unprepared to take on such a country.

all they have to do to stop america bombing the shit out of them is to hand over bin lamen. they do this and they wont kill anyone.

And i think they should bomb the fuck out of the people that were celebrating in the streets to the news that many innocent people have died. also to take into acount that there are 60 of my countries people missing, 20 allready confirmed dead. probably half of the people killed were not american!

More than 90% of the people killed were American. Not that it would make any of us feel any better, but that's a fact.

About handing over bin Laden, the Talibans have already stated that they will hand him over, IF there's proof that he is guilty. And what does Bush do? Says that they can't, because they don't want to reveal their methods! Fuck that! (sorry for the language)

Really, if Bush wanted to get bin Laden, all he needs to do is to present the proof. But instead of doing that, he wants to go to a war, that not only will cost billions of dollars (that could be used to help poor people in America and around the world), but will get THOUSANDS, if not MILLIONS of INNOCENT people killed in Afghanistan!!! Anyone here seeing any logic to this?

Leads me to wonder, either they don't have any proof (they only need to have someone to blame), or Bush just wants to show the American people that he is a president brave enough to go to war - a typical American merit.

And again, bombing anyone will CERTAINLY NOT solve anything. Terrorism is terrorism, whether or not it is done by armies or religious fanatics. Everyone in this world should have the right to celebrate anything they want to - it shouldn't hurt anyone.

-Villain

 

[Sullen Jester]

Really, if Bush wanted to get bin Laden, all he needs to do is to present the proof. But instead of doing that, he wants to go to a war, that not only will cost billions of dollars (that could be used to help poor people in America and around the world), but will get THOUSANDS, if not MILLIONS of INNOCENT people killed in Afghanistan!!! Anyone here seeing any logic to this?

Your point being? I mean, they've done it before, haven't they?

Well, when Bush "Liberates" (Massacres) the people of the country, by "removing the fanatic threat" (Person with strong belief's) he will be regarded a "hero" (Murderer) by the surviving population "saved by American peacekeepers" (The ones that were lucky to get away).

In this act, they can either:

a) accidently dump illegal munitions in the surrounding landscape, rendering it uncapable for human life, so they will be "good people" and "fix" it. The USA government has a new powerbase in a chemically assaulted country.
or b) claim they "saved world peace" therfore the good people who they "rescued" are indebted to them, as are surrounding countries that are "obviously threatened" by this "fanatic".

 

[MetalManCPA]

Originally posted by Villain


Really, if Bush wanted to get bin Laden, all he needs to do is to present the proof. But instead of doing that, he wants to go to a war, that not only will cost billions of dollars (that could be used to help poor people in America and around the world), but will get THOUSANDS, if not MILLIONS of INNOCENT people killed in Afghanistan!!! Anyone here seeing any logic to this?

Leads me to wonder, either they don't have any proof (they only need to have someone to blame), or Bush just wants to show the American people that he is a president brave enough to go to war - a typical American merit.

And again, bombing anyone will CERTAINLY NOT solve anything. Terrorism is terrorism, whether or not it is done by armies or religious fanatics. Everyone in this world should have the right to celebrate anything they want to - it shouldn't hurt anyone.

-Villain

Why do some of you keep on focusing in on Bin Laden and this legal angle of proof? Blame? Who cares!!! This type of rhetoric leads me to believe you don't understand terrorism and its threat, haven't listened to the ultimate goal of this "war", want to keep on berating the USA, or you're a terrorist (or at least believe in them).

The USA got a wake-up call on terrorism. India has wanted to eradicate terrorism for years, but no one listened. Bin Laden is a known terrorist, so who gives a sh*t about proving the perpetrators of this one incident? It took last Tuesday for the USA to step up to the world plate, and try to conquer terrorism.

And the pacifistic view of bombing and killing doesn't solve anything. BS. It's about positioning and power (of course). At least the enemy knows exactly what is coming as we make it very clear - unlike the terroristic view of surprise. Try to sit every leader in the world down, shake hands, and have them agree to quit battling each other. It will never happen - so, we should sit by, say how bad it was to kill people, and then just say "Why can't we all get together?" Wake-up out of that dream.

And celebrating the killing of 5,000+ innocent people? - if you support that, I find you a very disturbing individual.

 

[Lina]

yeah, the whole "where's the proof" angle really needs to be dropped. it just shows you haven't followed the latest developments. basically, the pilots lived here in the US for several years and attended flight school HERE (man, that's fucked.) and all the people that lived with these pilots, associated with these pilots, knew these pilots, etc, all have links to bin Laden. So I wouldn't say it's a stretch by any means to assume he's got something to do with this.

Villain, here's where I'm torn -- a week ago I was saying exactly what you're saying about, "just go kill bin laden and don't kill any other innocent people." And I still believe killing innocent people would make us NO better than them. BUT, there are thousands of people ready to take bin Laden's place -- how do we get rid of all of them? :s no good answer.

 

[MetalManCPA]

Originally posted by Lina
yeah, the whole "where's the proof" angle really needs to be dropped. it just shows you haven't followed the latest developments. basically, the pilots lived here in the US for several years and attended flight school HERE (man, that's fucked.) and all the people that lived with these pilots, associated with these pilots, knew these pilots, etc, all have links to bin Laden. So I wouldn't say it's a stretch by any means to assume he's got something to do with this.

That's the scariest part of this whole thing - whether you knew it existed or not before, now can you ever stop wondering if any person you ever come in contact with isn't linked to terrorism?

Is this the beginning of the age of paranoia?

 

[Villain]

"Why do some of you keep on focusing in on Bin Laden and this legal angle of proof? Blame? Who cares!!! This type of rhetoric leads me to believe you don't understand terrorism and its threat, haven't listened to the ultimate goal of this "war", want to keep on berating the USA, or you're a terrorist (or at least believe in them)."

I think I don't get your point here. Are you saying that every Afghan is a terrorist? If "proof" can prevent a war, then I say: USE IT! But Bush rather goes to a war that will get millions killed.

And about the "ultimate goal", I guess I don't understand it the way you do. Please, could you explain the way you see it. For I only see it as a facade for USA, Israel, etc to attack all their political enemies in the name of "war against terrorism".

"The USA got a wake-up call on terrorism. India has wanted to eradicate terrorism for years, but no one listened. Bin Laden is a known terrorist, so who gives a sh*t about proving the perpetrators of this one incident? It took last Tuesday for the USA to step up to the world plate, and try to conquer terrorism."

Bin Laden is no more known terrorist than Ronald Reagan (or any other US president in that matter - CIA _IS_ a terrorist organization). Now, if some Nicaraguan victim of terrorism came and demanded Reagan to be punished for the crimes against mankind during the eighties, would you support that claim?

"And the pacifistic view of bombing and killing doesn't solve anything. BS. It's about positioning and power (of course). At least the enemy knows exactly what is coming as we make it very clear - unlike the terroristic view of surprise. Try to sit every leader in the world down, shake hands, and have them agree to quit battling each other. It will never happen - so, we should sit by, say how bad it was to kill people, and then just say "Why can't we all get together?" Wake-up out of that dream."

And when will you wake-up out of your dream that you could solve the problem of international terrorism by bombing MILLIONS of INNOCENT PEOPLE? Can't you see that the terrorists probably WISH the Americans to attack Afghanistan? That way they will have more innocent victims, who can be converted to suicide-pilots in the future. The absolute WORST thing to do, if you want to fight against terrorism, is to attack innocent civilians - and Bush is going to do exactly that. Already there are thousands of people dying because all the humanitarian aid has left Afghanistan. You are already fueling the coming terrorist-strikes.

"And celebrating the killing of 5,000+ innocent people? - if you support that, I find you a very disturbing individual."

And if you support bombarding innocent people on the mere basis of their celebrating, I find you a fascist. (Now, I know you didn't mean that, but you should have seen that I didn't mean what you said also; I only supported everyones right to celebrate anything that they want without fear of being bombarded - what's wrong with that?).

As an aside note, this year, 10 000 000 (that's ten million) children around the world will die because of lack of medication - medication that would cost approximately 5% of world's combined military budgets. That's about 27 000 children KILLED every day. Now, can you ever celebrate?

-Villain