Disheartening Anti-American Sentiment

[Black Tears]

I just recently discovered this forum, some pretty interesting conversation going on in here, and with the appearance of an "American Empire Collapse" thread, I thought I'd make this one...

Its inevitable to understand that most of the world hates us Americans. Sure, we're excessive, in debt (well deep in debt: $7.9 trillion or so), and perhaps flaunt a mini arsenal of other societal problems. And sure our government buts its head into the business of others, most likely veritably uninvited. But, why despise the average "featureless pastry-bloated" American (as it seems we're always painted as hideous over-weight behemoths). I can understand why you'd hate our government, but hey, most of us do also, what I want to know is what all of you guys have against the public. To me, it almost seems Europeans place themselves upon a pedestal in comparison with us, seeming downright pretentious. So discuss, flame me for being an American tell me why ya' hate me

 

[infoterror]

I can understand why you'd hate our government, but hey, most of us do also, what I want to know is what all of you guys have against the public.

Who elected this government?

Who benefits from this cultureless void, where materialism is the only law?

Like it or not, the people of a nation are held responsible for its policies.

I think Europe is heavily in decline as well - they are equally doomed, although they may have another 50 years over us. Bah. That is nothing.

 

[NeverIsForever]

For once, I am in complete agreement with infoterror. America may be royally screwed, but we've done it to ourselves, and it didn't happen overnight. The public has continually supported (or at least passively allowed) behavior and policies that are detrimental to the well-being of our nation. Poor leadership is not the problem imo; it's merely a symptom.

 

[Black Tears]

Who elected this government?

I'm not sure if you remember 5 years ago, the election between Gore and Bush Jr. The nation was divided and it was basically 50/50, I'm still convinced Gore won and our nation would be better today. Truly, most younger people seem to hate Bush, yet all the older republicans think hes wonderful. So in essence, we're still divided, and it seems after Bush's horrible response to the recent hurricanes, everyone is a bit mad at him.

 

[infoterror]

I do remember. Any system that broken should be replaced. All these idiots are out there bitching about Bush or Kerry or whoever, but no one is saying THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN AND NEEDS BE REPLACED. Therefore, we're still accountable.

 

[Silver Incubus]

Well probbably because there are a lot of Ignorant proud and patriotic americans who know nothing of the world around them. America seems to be a land of extremes, and not very much moderation at all. I for one know for a fact that americans usually know little even about Canada, the closest neighbour to the US. Americans also tend to push that In Your Face attitude to the rest of the world, and that pisses off anyone. That and the forementioned butting in on not only Business of other countries, but Policy, and even government. I mean the US has in the past supported Rebels in Coup of other countries, and I am sure that American companies had benefitted from them.

Those are just a few i suppose.

 

[Hubster]

I agree with infoterror (good post btw).

When I think of Americans, I think of mutation, gluttony, excess. I picture a Krispy Kreme donut oozing with oil and fat, glistening cancerously in the light while it is praised by "God", before being devoured by millions and becoming an attribute to obesity and death.

I dislike the American government. I suppose one reason I dislike Americans (note, not all, after all, every culture has it's good and bad people right?) is the sickeningly conservative moral outlook and disgusting faith in the biggest destructive power on earth today, Christianity. Let's also not forget the Narcissistic nature of American culture "God Bless America", but on the other side of the coin, countries like mine are stupid enough to believe such life and values are good or "cool" and thus commence to adopt such a lifestyle.

materialism is the only law

This is an excellent description of what is starting to occur here in my own country and has existed in America for generations already.

With infoterrors second post, I also agree: the American people surely KNOW the flaws in their system, and also their obsession with cultural greed among other things. Michael Moore sits there and makes a film about such flaws, yet NO ONE chooses to act! Why do you Americans put up with such attrocity? Why don't you act and speak out?

 

[speed]

I just recently discovered this forum, some pretty interesting conversation going on in here, and with the appearance of an "American Empire Collapse" thread, I thought I'd make this one...

Its inevitable to understand that most of the world hates us Americans. Sure, we're excessive, in debt (well deep in debt: $7.9 trillion or so), and perhaps flaunt a mini arsenal of other societal problems. And sure our government buts its head into the business of others, most likely veritably uninvited. But, why despise the average "featureless pastry-bloated" American (as it seems we're always painted as hideous over-weight behemoths). I can understand why you'd hate our government, but hey, most of us do also, what I want to know is what all of you guys have against the public. To me, it almost seems Europeans place themselves upon a pedestal in comparison with us, seeming downright pretentious. So discuss, flame me for being an American tell me why ya' hate me

I have already expounded on many reasons why the American public is little better than a hive of ants, working ceaselessly, following their leader, and understanding nothing.

The question is, why do you think otherwise? What evidence, anecdotes, statistics, can you offer to prove the American public is nothing more than a hive of ants?

Here are quotes from the last four pages of Joseph Campbell's book Hero With a Thousand Faces written in the 1940's. Now of course Campbell was interested in the communal and psychological power and importance of myths, but please, read the first two quotes. They perfectly summarize the problem with America. The social unit is merely an economic political machine, it does not impart myths or morals, or duties. Our lives have been stripped of meaning and replaced with the absurd Sisphyean task of working our whole lives with little to show for it. There is no community, no family, no higher duty other than the selfish materialism. We have become mere animals, and we seem so proud to be so!



All of which is far indeed from the contemporary view; for the democratic ideal of the self-determining individual, the invention of the power driven machine, and the development of the scientific method of research, have so transformed human life that the long-inherited, timeless universe of symbols has collapsed. (387)



The social unit is not a carrier of religious content, but an economic-political organization. The ideas are not those of hieratic pantomime, making visible on earth the forms of heaven, but of the secular state, in hard and unremitting competition for material supremacy and resources. Isolated societies, dream-bounded within a mythologically charged horizon, no longer exist except as areas to be exploited. And within progressive societies themselves, every last vintage of the ancient human heritage of ritual, morality, and art is in full decay. (387)



The problem of mankind today, therefore, is precisely the opposite to that of men in the comparatively stable periods of those great co-ordinating mythologies which now are known as lies. Then all meaning was in the group, in the great anonymous forms, none in the self-expressive individual; today no meaning is in the group—none in the world all is in the individual. But there the meaning is absolutely unconscious. One does not know toward what he moves. One does not know by what one is propelled. The lines of communication between the conscious and unconscious zones of the psyche had all been cut, and have been split in two.(388)



The modern hero, the modern individual who dares to heed the call and seek the mansion of that presence with whom it is our whole destiny to be atoned, cannot, indeed must not, wait for his community to cast off its slough of pride, fear, rationalized avarice, and sanctified understanding. Live, Nietzsche says, “as though the day were here,” it is not society that is to guide and save the creative hero, but precisely the reverse. And so everyone of us shares in the supreme ordeal—carries the cross of the redeemer—not in the bright moments of his tribe’s great victories, but in the silences of his personal despair. (391).

 

[speed]

I agree with infoterror (good post btw).

When I think of Americans, I think of mutation, gluttony, excess. I picture a Krispy Kreme donut oozing with oil and fat, glistening cancerously in the light while it is praised by "God", before being devoured by millions and becoming an attribute to obesity and death.

I dislike the American government. I suppose one reason I dislike Americans (note, not all, after all, every culture has it's good and bad people right?) is the sickeningly conservative moral outlook and disgusting faith in the biggest destructive power on earth today, Christianity. Let's also not forget the Narcissistic nature of American culture "God Bless America", but on the other side of the coin, countries like mine are stupid enough to believe such life and values are good or "cool" and thus commence to adopt such a lifestyle.



This is an excellent description of what is starting to occur here in my own country and has existed in America for generations already.

With infoterrors second post, I also agree: the American people surely KNOW the flaws in their system, and also their obsession with cultural greed among other things. Michael Moore sits there and makes a film about such flaws, yet NO ONE chooses to act! Why do you Americans put up with such attrocity? Why don't you act and speak out?

Those krispy kreme donuts are heaven.

 

[Hubster]

I find them really squishy, and theres so much sugar you're as high as a kite.

 

[speed]

I find them really squishy, and theres so much sugar you're as high as a kite.

IF you are going to eat American junk food though, I really think the Krispy Creme donut is the pinnacle of our junk food art. But you know the rest of the world has fried doughy treats too. So such criticism is perhaps a bit unfair.

 

[Hubster]

I guess thats a fair point. Perhaps there is a better depiction.

Breakfasts of Death, for those aching to sleep deeply in their casket:
http://www.dennys.com/en/cms/Breakfast/40.html

 

[infoterror]

All of which is far indeed from the contemporary view; for the democratic ideal of the self-determining individual, the invention of the power driven machine, and the development of the scientific method of research, have so transformed human life that the long-inherited, timeless universe of symbols has collapsed. (387)

Sounds like what Evola, Nietzsche, Hitler and Jung said.

It leads of course to a less "freedom"-oriented social order. More order, less individualism.

But is that a terrible thing to accept?

 

[Pessimism]

So much to say and no time, these two threads are great, the other one I was going to throw my two cents in....until it became ten dollars

By far everyone has a valid point, but there is one thing I like to think about:
American culture started out as that of freedom and rights...what it has become is something completely different; call it an absence of the individual and the community working together in harmony (or whatever you want, just remember there are many reasons for things failing, such as economic activites in certain areas, or idealistic strife in another).

the point is:
Today people have lost touch with everything in turn for a individual gain (especially our politics, which hits the hardest of all) - and yet we continue (as a population) to drift further out to sea. As obvious as this is, many do nothing about it because we are not sure how to, everything on paper happens differently when executed.

Also, our pathetic excuse for a media hinders our attempts at anything. Hell, even in Lincoln's time, debates sometimes would last several hours! no mic in an ear, just a good honest argument - and the crowd would actually discuss theese things - today we have stupid commercialzs telling us one is a pedophile or some other stupid shit....blame needs to be spread evenly - after all, it was the individual who first started not caring about the events around them.

 

[Hubster]

Not that I'm trying to pimp my previous thread out (http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208781) but I do feel the rise of glamour/celebrity culture has a lot to do with some of the things being said here in this thread as well.

It seems like the "fantasy world" of having a yacht/expensive items/celebrity status/perfect body/friends in high places/etc has become an obsession that many people pine after when they simply don't have the money to do it with for a start! Let alone that such a fantasy isn't really that important anyway (I feel helping others and living a humble honest and creative life would be far more rewarding).

So, in correlation to the above comment by Seraphim Belial:

Today people have lost touch with everything in turn for a individual gain (especially our politics, which hits the hardest of all) - and yet we continue (as a population) to drift further out to sea.

... I have a "sub-question": are people drifting out to sea as a result of their own decision (and perhaps partial quest to see the fantasy world become reality) or is it a result of the state of politics (also covered briefly by Seraphim Belial).

Any thoughts?

 

[infoterror]

It's the result of mass revolt replacing higher tastes with lower.

 

[MasterOLightning]

I think a major difference between America and the rest of the world is that in America, a significant population protests various government actions/activities, but next to no one suggests an overthrow of the governmental system. Americans have an overwhelming faith in their governmental framework, just not the individuals who run it. Since elections are so frequent, it makes it a bit easier to be patient and hope that the next guy can get it right. In such a partisan country, though, there's no chance that everyone will think you're getting it right. Surprisingly though, re-election rates for Congressmen are remarkably high, as people think it's the other guys who screw things up, not their own rep.

 

[Hubster]

It's the result of mass revolt replacing higher tastes with lower.

An interesting concept.

What could be fuelling this mass revolt, or rather what is the backlash against? And how can we define the revolt, what is it's target and/or purpose?

 

[SoundMaster]

As many have already stated, a lot of the world's antipathy towards the "common American" (read: private citizen) IS based soley on the fact that many (dare I say most?) Americans are "globally ignorant" while simaltaneously being grossly arrogant and brutish.

For generations, we've been told that "we're the greatest country, etc", but how is that measured? What makes that so?

The fact of that matter is that our laziness and ignorance is a natural by-product of the (once) great standard of living that most of us held (1950+) -which is beginning it's inevitable decline.
Why should Johny "know the world" if he's secluded from it, wrapped in the warmth of his heated home, with an abundance of (fast) food piled upon his table, while his greatest worries center on who's going to win such and such sporting event and whether, or not, the (fat) chick next door likes him?

An old maxim pop into mind while typing this, which offer a theme quite appropriate:

necessity is the mother of invention. Since American don't need (or rather, haven't had the need in past times) to "know the world", they ignore it.

On a side note, I'm generally amazed at how ignorant many of the twenty-somethings I work with really are. For example, almost none of the read! Not newspapers, not novels, not books of any kind! WTF?!?! How can you live and learn without reading?
Also, why do so many kids take college/university so lightly? In my experience, most simply treat it as "something I have to do", or as a means of securing a "piece of paper" which will help guarantee a well-paying job. The majority don't seek to reep the benefits of education: perspective on the world and a healthy stifling of ignorance.

 

[ThePhilosopher]

Also, why do so many kids take college/university so lightly? In my experience, most simply treat it as "something I have to do", or as a means of securing a "piece of paper" which will help guarantee a well-paying job. The majority don't seek to reep the benefits of education: perspective on the world and a healthy stifling of ignorance.

People treat it as an obligation because it's looked at as a total necessity nowadays, not a privilege. And I think you overestimate a college's ability to knock ignorance out of people and give a good perspective on the world. If that was the case, 80% of the people I'm surrounded with would've been kicked out by now.