- Sep 12, 2001
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I came to thinking "Okay, i can see why people want to compare them, but they are simply too different to do it with..." but then i thought, well, hang out, what about a band right in the middle of the two?
Lefay!
While not stylistically the same as nevermore, i've always put them in the same category (not morgana lefay, that's a whole different kettle of monkeys) in terms of sound, they have a 'vibe' to them which is similar.
So, Nevermore up against Lefay. (if this thread does well, i'll do an IE vs Lefay too). Instead of generally doing the whole discography, how about we make it SOS against POE/DNB era nevermore eh? Similar styles of music. Dead Heart and Seventh seal are similar to each other, hence they aren't as good as SOS or POE (
). So, here we go.
Save our Souls. My favourite (and first) Lefay experience. What an absolutely KILLER record this is. When gargoyles fly is possibly my favourite track on here, but the whole album is great.
Charles Rytkonen is one of the most powerful vocalists out there. He can sing almost pink floyd style melodies and then scream his absolute balls off. I've heard him called a "Savatage clone" but that's a total insult. I don't LIKE savatage, and their vocalist has nothing on Charles... He's got a hell of alot stronger voice than Jon Oliva...
Put him up against WD though, that's a tough one. Warrel has got more control over the actual tone of his voice (except for the maraiah carey squeals, he can lose it sometimes) than Rytkonen, while ryt has got a good range, he distorts higher up most times, maybe deliberately, but it's almost as though he strains a bit. He's alot lighter on the vibrato than Mr. Dane, which is a good thing. Excessive vibrato takes it up the ass, it's terrible... they sing fairly different styles actually, a little similar on Dreaming Neon Black, but no-one touches warrel for the vocals on that album... There's a few growls on SOS (like the "when gargoyles... FLLLLLYYYY"), which is a nice effect, not quite as well done as the psuedo growls on The Learning, but again, warrel's got better control of his voice mid and low range. Earlier on (sanctuary), WD absolutely slayed Charles' earlier stuff (morgana lefay), but rytman has become such a great singer, and in fact if a fridge mysteriously fell out of the sky onto Warrel one day, i think Charles is the only vocalist that could do a decent job, not sounding like WD at all, but still acheiving that emotional, yet powerful vocal style that nevermore are known for.
THe music... Jeff Loomis is obviously the better guitarist here, but both guitarists in Lefay are fairly awesome in their own right. They use wah, which is bad in my books, it hides sloppyness alot of the time, but that's not the case with them i'm sure, as there is one song (can't remember which... might be gargoyles) where they start of the solo with harmonized shredding ala petrucci, which is totally aweesome. THere's some good solo's on the cd, but sometimes they lapse into 'the hammett syndrome' and settle on the pentatonic scale too much... but otherwise they are great guitarists. on DNB and SOS they've both got a very 'forbidden-esque' riffing style, using harmonic minors and a few modes to spice things up... plus SOS uses the same cool groove ideas that POE had, get a cool groove, add some half time drumming and an off beat fill at the end, and wallah, you've got one hell of a riff. While Jeff IS the better guitarists, i personally like both band's music a hell of alot, each has it's merits. Loomis has got the chops and the brains, and Lefay's got the brains and solid technique, so in terms of writing, Nevermore gets a little more for the prog stylings, but when it comes to writing a good song, they are about neck and neck.
Drums... Van is better at the complex stuff, and doesn't rely on the "lars" technique (kick, snare, kick, snare etc) like the drummer of lefay does... the drums are awesome on SOS, don't get me wrong... but I think maybe he could lash out a little bit, step outside the square, and maybe this album would be considered a little more proggy... there's a few weird fills here and there, but that's mainly driven by the guitars... really cool drummer, but i think he needs to take a bit more initiative, maybe step forward a bit, as he's got awesome technique (the double kick is
), he just needs to maybe jazz things up a bit with some mixed drumming, ala gene hoglan maybe.
The production. Hmm... i wonder?
Nevermore takes it for sure, no contest. SOS is a little bottom heavy, the guitars have got waaay too much mids... the vocals are recorded great on SOS, which is a huge plus, they can get a little muddled on POE, and sometimes even on DNB, but i think that was actually intended. THe drumms aren't as clear as nevermore, and may i ask "WHERE ARE THE CYMBALS?" Some nice, biting ride ala "THe sound of perseverance" would go AWESEOME with lefay's style, it's a pity they are a little back in the mix, unlike POE, where basically the ride is more upfront than the vox
What do you guys think?
Lefay!
While not stylistically the same as nevermore, i've always put them in the same category (not morgana lefay, that's a whole different kettle of monkeys) in terms of sound, they have a 'vibe' to them which is similar.
So, Nevermore up against Lefay. (if this thread does well, i'll do an IE vs Lefay too). Instead of generally doing the whole discography, how about we make it SOS against POE/DNB era nevermore eh? Similar styles of music. Dead Heart and Seventh seal are similar to each other, hence they aren't as good as SOS or POE (
). So, here we go.Save our Souls. My favourite (and first) Lefay experience. What an absolutely KILLER record this is. When gargoyles fly is possibly my favourite track on here, but the whole album is great.
Charles Rytkonen is one of the most powerful vocalists out there. He can sing almost pink floyd style melodies and then scream his absolute balls off. I've heard him called a "Savatage clone" but that's a total insult. I don't LIKE savatage, and their vocalist has nothing on Charles... He's got a hell of alot stronger voice than Jon Oliva...
Put him up against WD though, that's a tough one. Warrel has got more control over the actual tone of his voice (except for the maraiah carey squeals, he can lose it sometimes) than Rytkonen, while ryt has got a good range, he distorts higher up most times, maybe deliberately, but it's almost as though he strains a bit. He's alot lighter on the vibrato than Mr. Dane, which is a good thing. Excessive vibrato takes it up the ass, it's terrible... they sing fairly different styles actually, a little similar on Dreaming Neon Black, but no-one touches warrel for the vocals on that album... There's a few growls on SOS (like the "when gargoyles... FLLLLLYYYY"), which is a nice effect, not quite as well done as the psuedo growls on The Learning, but again, warrel's got better control of his voice mid and low range. Earlier on (sanctuary), WD absolutely slayed Charles' earlier stuff (morgana lefay), but rytman has become such a great singer, and in fact if a fridge mysteriously fell out of the sky onto Warrel one day, i think Charles is the only vocalist that could do a decent job, not sounding like WD at all, but still acheiving that emotional, yet powerful vocal style that nevermore are known for.
THe music... Jeff Loomis is obviously the better guitarist here, but both guitarists in Lefay are fairly awesome in their own right. They use wah, which is bad in my books, it hides sloppyness alot of the time, but that's not the case with them i'm sure, as there is one song (can't remember which... might be gargoyles) where they start of the solo with harmonized shredding ala petrucci, which is totally aweesome. THere's some good solo's on the cd, but sometimes they lapse into 'the hammett syndrome' and settle on the pentatonic scale too much... but otherwise they are great guitarists. on DNB and SOS they've both got a very 'forbidden-esque' riffing style, using harmonic minors and a few modes to spice things up... plus SOS uses the same cool groove ideas that POE had, get a cool groove, add some half time drumming and an off beat fill at the end, and wallah, you've got one hell of a riff. While Jeff IS the better guitarists, i personally like both band's music a hell of alot, each has it's merits. Loomis has got the chops and the brains, and Lefay's got the brains and solid technique, so in terms of writing, Nevermore gets a little more for the prog stylings, but when it comes to writing a good song, they are about neck and neck.
Drums... Van is better at the complex stuff, and doesn't rely on the "lars" technique (kick, snare, kick, snare etc) like the drummer of lefay does... the drums are awesome on SOS, don't get me wrong... but I think maybe he could lash out a little bit, step outside the square, and maybe this album would be considered a little more proggy... there's a few weird fills here and there, but that's mainly driven by the guitars... really cool drummer, but i think he needs to take a bit more initiative, maybe step forward a bit, as he's got awesome technique (the double kick is
), he just needs to maybe jazz things up a bit with some mixed drumming, ala gene hoglan maybe.The production. Hmm... i wonder?
Nevermore takes it for sure, no contest. SOS is a little bottom heavy, the guitars have got waaay too much mids... the vocals are recorded great on SOS, which is a huge plus, they can get a little muddled on POE, and sometimes even on DNB, but i think that was actually intended. THe drumms aren't as clear as nevermore, and may i ask "WHERE ARE THE CYMBALS?" Some nice, biting ride ala "THe sound of perseverance" would go AWESEOME with lefay's style, it's a pity they are a little back in the mix, unlike POE, where basically the ride is more upfront than the vox What do you guys think?
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