DigLazarusDig
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Hey now... I'm just mimicing you... Only thing is... I'm doing it a whole lot better.
Nevermore Vs..........iced Earth
- Thread starter ledmag
- Start date
Hey now... I'm just mimicing you... Only thing is... I'm doing it a whole lot better.
El Stormo
Member
Talking Backwards
Senior Citizen
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You know this thread wouldn't even exist if it had been 2005. Anyway, I always found these debates silly. One of my good friends would always talk about how Matt is so much better than Warrel but not really say why. I really like Matt a lot, and he is kind of "unique" in a really generic way, but his Paul Stanleyisms and overly dramatic delivery would sometimes border on camp. When I'd mention how weepy and "tear jerky" Matt would get, the response I'd get is "Warrel gets emotional too". Err yeah, but in a believable way. These debates are dumb because most of the time it comes down to vocalist vs vocalist. Iced Earth had maybe four really good albums. Nevermore has had a way higher standard throughout and even if Jon is good at picking, he's nowhere near as creative or technical as Jeff. Let's not pretend Iced Earth ever had a consistent drummer or lead player either past Something Wicked This Way Comes or that almost everything past Burnt Offerings wasn't recycled riffs.
El Stormo
Member
Every time this thread is revived, someone makes a serious on-topic post, and then it goes off the rails again.
theoden236
Soul Wandering
DigLazarusDig
The Return
DigLazarusDig
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uke:uke:
uke:uke:uke:uke:uke:uke: yep.... that IS what you are... A PUKE. look back to find the puke.... or do not. It's a liitlle FUCK from Jers
DigLazarusDig
The Return
DUDE...!!! Get out of town... you are being WAY too real to post in this thread... or, at least youre trying to be.
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nckissfan
Civil War reenactor
Det Som Engang Var
Viking Bastard
Serious note, have any of the last few Iced Earth albums had at least a good track or two worth checking out?
Same goes for Opeth. Is the last album any good? I hated Heritage, despite Damnation being my favorite.
Same goes for Opeth. Is the last album any good? I hated Heritage, despite Damnation being my favorite.
Talking Backwards
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So did I, and after listening to Pale Communion five or six times, it's just not something I would ever listen to regularly. It's not a bad album at all, but it's just not an "Opeth" album, despite being written by the band with that name. The only standout track to me is "Cusp of Eternity", but that's not saying much. Damnation was completely boring to me and the last two albums are even more so.
Iced Earth hasn't really released anything kind of memorable since The Glorious Burden and Dystopia (but not really, it was just better than the previous few albums). Schaffer's best stuff is in Demon's and Wizards and everything from Something Wicked This Way Comes and before. He might be wanting to protect the environment or whatever, but he just recycles way too much.
lorinc
Member
I stopped with the last featuring Barlow which had ~2-3 tracks worth checking, but nothing near what they did in the something wicked era.
El Stormo
Member
John, and everyone really, while IE's heyday has definitely passed, they did put out some pretty awesome tracks in the post-Something Wicked era. Horror Show, despite its cheesy thematic and riff recycling (same riff on three tracks, seriously?!), had Dracula, Wolf, The Phantom Opera Ghost. Granted, these tracks were awesome mostly because of Barlow's voice, but still.
Despite Tim Owens' solid vocal work, The Glorious Burden was a fucking coaster. The songwriting is just terrible on that album, plus all the AMERIKUH!-shit grates, especially for non-Americans. Every album has the right to a shit track, but this one is simply shitters and fillers.
Framing Armageddon, though, is a seriously underrated album. Fans were whining and crying because "It's not Barlow!", but Tim Owens sung the shingles off the roof in that one. Plus, it was a concept album that told an actual story, not the loosely-connected, half-hearted semi-concept stuff that diminished other albums. Tracks like The Domino Decree, with that epic chorus, and Ten Thousand Strong which is more catchy and head-on show that Tim Owens was every bit the vocalist Iced Earth required. Though a slight malus point for the "WAAAHHH" in the beginning. Vocalists, don't do it. Don't give in to the WAAAHHH.
Out goes Tim Owens (which in hindsight was a terrible mistake) and in comes Barlow again, to record the second Something Wicked album, The Crucible of Man. Honestly, the album was a bit of a snoozer. The carefully crafted and paced story from Framing Armageddon just deflates like a soggy cake due to the stagnant, repetitive and recycled lyrics (every track is "man is corrupt"), and musically, it's just... completely forgettable. Sure, Barlow puts down a decent performance, but you can already tell his heart wasn't in it, and the whole album is just... meh.
Out goes Barlow again, and now it's Stu Block who gets to play musical chairs behind the mic. Dystopia was decent. Had some alright tracks, but it didn't knock me off my feet or anything. Boiling Point is a good track (chorus at least, the verses are forgettable, which is typical for Iced Earth). You can tell the band is trying to adapt to Block's different vocals. He's a very good singer, but not the same type Barlow or Owens were.
On Plagues of Babylon, you can tell the band (i.e. Jon) has written music around Block's vocals, and it sounds much more confident. I wasn't impressed at first, but the more I listened to it, the more I'm liking it. Some tracks have really amazing choruses, even though the verses are, as always, the weak points. Cthulhu and The End have really evocative choruses, even if they're a bit sing-along. And then there's the absolutely awesome cover of Highwayman. Jon should generally stay away from the mic, but his crappy singing style actually fits on this one. The fact that Russell Allen, Stu Block and Michael Poulsen put down awesome performances just makes it so much better.
*ahem*
Anyway. That took longer than I'd planned. Just, you know, wanted to put it out there that while people currently feel part of the "cool kids club" by shitting on IE, their recent work really isn't all that bad. I know, you shouldn't expect them to invent new things, or to blow you away with a radical new approach to metal, but what they do, they do decently.
It's kinda funny that so many people praise Something Wicked as THE BEST Iced Earth album. Sure, it has some of the best tracks the band has ever put out, but if you take off the nostalgia goggles for a sec, you'll notice the "great track - filler - great track - filler - great track - filler" structure makes the album much less good than it could have been. And the lyrics, apart from the SW trilogy, were absolute shite. Rhyming "madness" with "sadness"? On two different tracks? Rhyming "cry for" with "die for"? Verses like "make the sadness go away / come back another day"? That's fucking elementary school crap. Schaffer's lyrics have at least matured beyond that shit stage (excluding When the Eagle Cries, of course, and its "how could they / why would they").
Despite Tim Owens' solid vocal work, The Glorious Burden was a fucking coaster. The songwriting is just terrible on that album, plus all the AMERIKUH!-shit grates, especially for non-Americans. Every album has the right to a shit track, but this one is simply shitters and fillers.
Framing Armageddon, though, is a seriously underrated album. Fans were whining and crying because "It's not Barlow!", but Tim Owens sung the shingles off the roof in that one. Plus, it was a concept album that told an actual story, not the loosely-connected, half-hearted semi-concept stuff that diminished other albums. Tracks like The Domino Decree, with that epic chorus, and Ten Thousand Strong which is more catchy and head-on show that Tim Owens was every bit the vocalist Iced Earth required. Though a slight malus point for the "WAAAHHH" in the beginning. Vocalists, don't do it. Don't give in to the WAAAHHH.
Out goes Tim Owens (which in hindsight was a terrible mistake) and in comes Barlow again, to record the second Something Wicked album, The Crucible of Man. Honestly, the album was a bit of a snoozer. The carefully crafted and paced story from Framing Armageddon just deflates like a soggy cake due to the stagnant, repetitive and recycled lyrics (every track is "man is corrupt"), and musically, it's just... completely forgettable. Sure, Barlow puts down a decent performance, but you can already tell his heart wasn't in it, and the whole album is just... meh.
Out goes Barlow again, and now it's Stu Block who gets to play musical chairs behind the mic. Dystopia was decent. Had some alright tracks, but it didn't knock me off my feet or anything. Boiling Point is a good track (chorus at least, the verses are forgettable, which is typical for Iced Earth). You can tell the band is trying to adapt to Block's different vocals. He's a very good singer, but not the same type Barlow or Owens were.
On Plagues of Babylon, you can tell the band (i.e. Jon) has written music around Block's vocals, and it sounds much more confident. I wasn't impressed at first, but the more I listened to it, the more I'm liking it. Some tracks have really amazing choruses, even though the verses are, as always, the weak points. Cthulhu and The End have really evocative choruses, even if they're a bit sing-along. And then there's the absolutely awesome cover of Highwayman. Jon should generally stay away from the mic, but his crappy singing style actually fits on this one. The fact that Russell Allen, Stu Block and Michael Poulsen put down awesome performances just makes it so much better.
*ahem*
Anyway. That took longer than I'd planned. Just, you know, wanted to put it out there that while people currently feel part of the "cool kids club" by shitting on IE, their recent work really isn't all that bad. I know, you shouldn't expect them to invent new things, or to blow you away with a radical new approach to metal, but what they do, they do decently.
It's kinda funny that so many people praise Something Wicked as THE BEST Iced Earth album. Sure, it has some of the best tracks the band has ever put out, but if you take off the nostalgia goggles for a sec, you'll notice the "great track - filler - great track - filler - great track - filler" structure makes the album much less good than it could have been. And the lyrics, apart from the SW trilogy, were absolute shite. Rhyming "madness" with "sadness"? On two different tracks? Rhyming "cry for" with "die for"? Verses like "make the sadness go away / come back another day"? That's fucking elementary school crap. Schaffer's lyrics have at least matured beyond that shit stage (excluding When the Eagle Cries, of course, and its "how could they / why would they").
lorinc
Member
This.
I think people praise the something wicked era mostly because of the live in athens and the chemistry the band had at the time. Even on the (many) fillers that are on something wicked, you can hear it comes from the guts of the band, which is not the case on the later albums.
The same goes for burnt offering. It has many forgettable songs, but they were very emotional. Something that was lost somewhere between horror show (phantom opera ghost had it) and the later albums.
El Stormo
Member
Yeah, that could be it. And let's not forget that Something Wicked was their breakthrough album, so yes, the band chemistry was ideal at the time. I still love Burnt Offerings, myself, especially how dark and bitter the music and lyrics sounded.
nckissfan
Civil War reenactor
Among the Living Dead (featuring Hansi) is a good song on the latest album. Cthulu is a cool track, too.
The Crucible of Man was a big disappointment from Framing Armageddon. It sounded much weaker. I kind of wonder if the album would have been different with Tim singing. I would think so.
The Crucible of Man was a big disappointment from Framing Armageddon. It sounded much weaker. I kind of wonder if the album would have been different with Tim singing. I would think so.
Talking Backwards
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Burnt Offerings > The Dark Saga > Something Wicked
Hell, "Dante's Inferno" alone makes the album. It could be full of filler songs and still be one of the better albums because of it. It's the only Iced Earth album I listen to with any regularity.
Those are the only tracks I ever want to listen to on that album as well. I remember saying as much when it was released and seeing how some other people thought there were many songs that were much better, like "Damien" or "Ghost of Freedom".
"Jack" would actually be pretty good too if not for the stupid lyrics.In fact, "Dracula" was the first song I had heard and thought the album would be incredible if most of the album was like that.
Mostly agree with this. I think Something Wicked was actually the first album I bought of theirs, and the opening track kind of blew me away (Barlow actually sounds like a cross between Chris Cornell and a manly Paul Stanley on that), but then it was a rather middling experience until the last three tracks. Although I didn't find the lyrics to "Burning Times" to be absolute shite. In fact, they fit pretty well with the last three. The last three tracks are the only songs my friends who I introduced them to wanted to hear too.
Oh, totally forgot about Days of Purgatory, but I'm not sure if it counts, since it's basically just rerecorded material with Barlow's vocals and a few minor changes to the guitars. Still, that album has a whole lot of worthwhile material. Probably the best thing to listen to after Burnt Offerings by itself.
Det Som Engang Var
Viking Bastard
Thanks for that Stormo.
It's funny, because the other month I stumbled upon the "Dont Tread On Me" video. When Tim started shadow boxing I cringed and thought "What do Europeans think about this?" Oh god, it's funny.
I wish they played Damien when I saw them with all the Neverboarders in Chicago. That and Dracula. Those are the riffs that make you think "Why didn't I think of that?" So simple yet so effective. There's something about E flat tuning I don't know how to describe. It's only a half step lower than standard, but albums like Dreaming Neon Black and Horror Show sound so god damn heavy with it.
It's funny, because the other month I stumbled upon the "Dont Tread On Me" video. When Tim started shadow boxing I cringed and thought "What do Europeans think about this?" Oh god, it's funny.
I wish they played Damien when I saw them with all the Neverboarders in Chicago. That and Dracula. Those are the riffs that make you think "Why didn't I think of that?" So simple yet so effective. There's something about E flat tuning I don't know how to describe. It's only a half step lower than standard, but albums like Dreaming Neon Black and Horror Show sound so god damn heavy with it.
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