Integration has failed

[A Dying Breed]

Well, if ethnic/cultural identification is the problem then clearly race would be a problem as well, ethnic differences can be dealt with if the race is the same, history is full of examples and we can use examples of the present day, look at African Americans, there has been a lot of efforts to Americanize them but can you actually call them Anglo Saxons? No of course you can’t, in marked contrast to the European immigrants that came to America, all of them were Americanized and all of them became “white”, blacks want to be black, not white and that is their natural right to do so.?

Bad example. A cursory glance at history gives us a few clues as to why African Americans remain segregated to the extent they are. Surely I don't need to get into that.

The Japanese understand racial homogeneity well…they don’t encourage massive immigration that isn’t the same racial stock as the majority of the inhabitants of Japan, they know very well a Hispanic couldn’t become Japanese, speaking of Hispanics they don’t push for “diversity” in their land neither, Mexico is a prime example of that.

So? Complete non-argument. In any event, the Japanese are part of the liberal industrial capitalist earth raping crowd if I'm not mistaken. Shouldn't their racial purity have prevented this? And Mexico sucks.

Oh really? How is that? Haven’t the liberal hypocrites been trying that for decades with all of their multi-cultural propaganda? It doesn’t seem to be working, after all, Bill Clinton, ‘the first African American president’ preaches multiculturalism but where exactly does this man live? No, it isn’t a ‘multi racial’ neighborhood, on the contrary, it is a very mono racial neighborhood and it isn’t ‘African American’…it is very ‘white’.

Pointing out the current state of affairs in the US proves nothing. Give me 50 white kids, 20 black kids, 20 Asian kids, from birth, and we'll move out into a compound in the woods and start a new society. You don't think I can socialize these kids such that they don't exhibit what we know as "race consciousness?" That's the issue here.

Sorry ‘genuine integration’ isn’t the answer, geographic separation of the races is the only answer…as I have already pointed out ethnic problems can be dealt with if the race is the same, so it is race that must be separated, not integrated and that will solve many problems and then the races can build a civilization that reflects their interest and their people.

Very compelling argument. I surrender.

I can’t help but to wonder why you don’t worry about race but you worry about traditional German outfits. What is that all about? How in the hell does that really concern you?

Fantasize all you like about egalitarian utopias...yes, in theory this would likely be wonderful and ideal. But alas, it is utterly unrealistic and we by now should understand that wishing never, ever makes it so.

Racial separation is even more unrealistic.

 

[Patrick R.]

Bad example. A cursory glance at history gives us a few clues as to why African Americans remain segregated to the extent they are. Surely I don't need to get into that.

They don't want to loose their African ancestry, that is the reason why they choose to live with other blacks, the races naturally segregate themselves and I take it you except the fact that they will never become Anglo Saxons?

So? Complete non-argument. In any event, the Japanese are part of the liberal industrial capitalist earth raping crowd if I'm not mistaken. Shouldn't their racial purity have prevented this? And Mexico sucks.

Japan has always fought of non-Japanese influence, that is why they have remained Japanese…this was long before ‘liberal capitalist earth raping crowd’ my friend.

Mexico may suck for some people but that isn’t the point I’m trying to make, I’m saying the Mexicans want Mexico Hispanic (many Hispanics also want the south western part of the United States Hispanic as well.)

Pointing out the current state of affairs in the US proves nothing. Give me 50 white kids, 20 black kids, 20 Asian kids, from birth, and we'll move out into a compound in the woods and start a new society. You don't think I can socialize these kids such that they don't exhibit what we know as "race consciousness?" That's the issue here.

I tell you what, you do that and I would love to see how you explain to them their obvious differences from intelligence, social skills, cultural achievements, cranial capacity, penis size, testicle size, crime rate, diseases, skin color, bone structure, etc etc…you can’t blame it on the environment, hell they all lived in the woods.

Very compelling argument. I surrender.

That would be a good idea.

Racial separation is even more unrealistic.

No it isn’t, that is exactly what would happen if all the races were left alone, hell, you can see racial separation in schools, churches, and other daily activities of life, that is just how humans work.

 

[A Dying Breed]

They don't want to loose their African ancestry, that is the reason why they choose to live with other blacks, the races naturally segregate themselves and I take it you except the fact that they will never become Anglo Saxons?

Yes, surely this is the only reasonable explanation. I've scoured the historical record and found no possible external factors whatsoever.

Japan has always fought of non-Japanese influence, that is why they have remained Japanese…this was long before ‘liberal capitalist earth raping crowd’ my friend.

Right, but how do we explain Japan's entry into the liberal capitalist earth raping community, given its racial purity and cultural clarity? Doesn't this undermine your central argument (that integration and the consequent loss of indigenous culture is at the root of the major problems facing modernity)?

I tell you what, you do that and I would love to see how you explain to them their obvious differences from intelligence, social skills, cultural achievements, cranial capacity, penis size, testicle size, crime rate, diseases, skin color, bone structure, etc etc…you can’t blame it on the environment, hell they all lived in the woods.

If the kids are all sitting around showing each other their dicks I think I will have failed in my task. In any event, I'd like to return to this:

... in marked contrast to the European immigrants that came to America, all of them were Americanized and all of them became “white”, blacks want to be black, not white and that is their natural right to do so.

So I guess the Swedes and Italians, for example, are culturally indistinct? Or is it that they are culturally distinct, yet share some common genetic root which is the determining factor in allowing them to assimilate so seamlessly? Why is it then that Asians excel in the US? Surely, given that they are of a different racial stock, they cannot be expected to thrive in an environment dominated by a broad category of many different races and cultures, which happen to share the common bond of "whiteness"- which allows them to live in harmony- and causes them, categorically, to instinctively resist the presence and affluence of other broad, artificial categories (such as "Asian?") Or is it that this is all pure bullshit based on non-existent reasoning and a near-total misunderstanding of genetics and race? Seriously people, use some critical thinking and stop gobbling up this idiocy.

 

[Patrick R.]

Yes, surely this is the only reasonable explanation. I've scoured the historical record and found no possible external factors whatsoever.

Ok, well, you proved me right...you can't call African Americans Anglo Saxons.

Right, but how do we explain Japan's entry into the liberal capitalist earth raping community, given its racial purity and cultural clarity? Doesn't this undermine your central argument (that integration and the consequent loss of indigenous culture is at the root of the major problems facing modernity)?

What are you saying? That because they are liberal capitalist they can't discourage non Japanese immigration?

If the kids are all sitting around showing each other their dicks I think I will have failed in my task. In any event, I'd like to return to this:

Perhaps you missed the point, it goes far beyond ‘dicks’, I’m talking about racial differences that are so obvious in marked contrast to egalitarian ‘racial equality’…when we are different in many ways.

So I guess the Swedes and Italians, for example, are culturally indistinct? Or is it that they are culturally distinct, yet share some common genetic root which is the determining factor in allowing them to assimilate so seamlessly?

If you look at whites in American no matter where their roots are they are pretty much just white Americans, their European parents or grandparents etc assimilated into American society and yes a genetic commonality played a big role in it.

Why is it then that Asians excel in the US? Surely, given that they are of a different racial stock, they cannot be expected to thrive in an environment dominated by a broad category of many different races and cultures, which happen to share the common bond of "whiteness"- which allows them to live in harmony- and causes them, categorically, to instinctively resist the presence and affluence of other broad, artificial categories (such as "Asian?") Or is it that this is all pure bullshit based on non-existent reasoning and a near-total misunderstanding of genetics and race? Seriously people, use some critical thinking and stop gobbling up this idiocy.

First of all, any race can excel in America, but can we call Hispanics and Asians Anglo Saxons? No of course not, they will never give up their identity and become white…this isn’t a misunderstanding of race and genetics, this is just how it is and this is how it always has been…race does exist and those of similar racial stock will assimilate, but if you have many races under one household then that will back fire, that is just human nature.

 

[A Dying Breed]

Ok, well, you proved me right...you can't call African Americans Anglo Saxons.

Well no shit. That has nothing to do with my original argument.

What are you saying? That because they are liberal capitalist they can't discourage non Japanese immigration?

I don't know how I can make my question to you any clearer. Try re-reading it I guess.

Perhaps you missed the point, it goes far beyond ‘dicks’, I’m talking about racial differences that are so obvious in marked contrast to egalitarian ‘racial equality’…when we are different in many ways.

Hoo boy. I apologize. I meant.... penises.

If you look at whites in American no matter where their roots are they are pretty much just white Americans, their European parents or grandparents etc assimilated into American society and yes a genetic commonality played a big role in it.

Show me scientific (ie. not "look, all the blacks are in ghettos!") evidence that genetics, rather than historical and socio-economic factors, were the determining factor here.

 

[OldScratch]

Show me scientific (ie. not "look, all the blacks are in ghettos!") evidence that genetics, rather than historical and socio-economic factors, were the determining factor here.[/QUOTE]

Just a sampling:

1) "Why Race Matters" - Prof. Michael Levin
2) "Race, Genetics, and Society" - Prof. G. Whitney
3) "Conscientious Evolution" - H. Matare
4) "Intelligence and National Achievement" - R. Cattell(Ed.)
5) "Race Differences in Intelligence" Richard Lynn
6) "Race, Evolution and Behavior" Prof. P. Rushton

The simple fact that Blacks lag behind the other Races of Man worldwide cannot be explained by socio-economic disparties alone. In fact, those disparities are but a symptom of the realities of Race and the differences inherent therein. In every part of the world the differences in economic "achievement," social stability, education, technological development, etc. between Negroids and Caucasoids(and Mongoloids & mixes thereof to varying degrees) is profound and consistent. Science clearly and reasonably explains this phenomenon. An army of egalitarian sociologists and their emotionally inspired twaddle cannot, unless one is inclined to accept such ideas on "faith" and then, there is no point discussing the scientific and sociobiological factors one way or the other.

 

[A Dying Breed]

Just a sampling.......

An excerpt or two would be much more useful for the purposes of continuing this discussion than a reading list.

 

[OldScratch]

An excerpt or two would be much more useful for the purposes of continuing this discussion than a reading list.

A fair request. But the hour is quite late here. Must follow up at a later time.

 

[Patrick R.]

Well no shit. That has nothing to do with my original argument.

By your argument race isn’t the problem, it is ‘ethnic and cultural’…but as I have shown that ethnicity and culture isn’t the problem, look at the very diverse groups of Europeans that came to America…by they the Russians, Germans, Irish, English, Swedish, Danish etc, all of them assimilated into America whereas the blacks and Hispanics haven’t, the reason is because of race, not ‘ethnic and cultural’.

I don't know how I can make my question to you any clearer. Try re-reading it I guess.

You are having a hard time excepting the fact that race matters, why would you want to destroy racial awareness?

Hoo boy. I apologize. I meant.... penises.

Ok, lets get off this subject.

Show me scientific (ie. not "look, all the blacks are in ghettos!") evidence that genetics, rather than historical and socio-economic factors, were the determining factor here.

All of the founders of evolution and anthropology believed in racial differences, from Charles Darwin to the famous neurologist Paul Broca…speaking of Broca, he found exceptional differences in brain size amongst Orientals and whites, yes Orientals have bigger brains then whites…you need to read their work and that will answer all of your questions hopefully, in early America there was a understanding of racial reality has been under attack.

 

[Patrick R.]

Show me scientific (ie. not "look, all the blacks are in ghettos!") evidence that genetics, rather than historical and socio-economic factors, were the determining factor here.

Just a sampling:

1) "Why Race Matters" - Prof. Michael Levin
2) "Race, Genetics, and Society" - Prof. G. Whitney
3) "Conscientious Evolution" - H. Matare
4) "Intelligence and National Achievement" - R. Cattell(Ed.)
5) "Race Differences in Intelligence" Richard Lynn
6) "Race, Evolution and Behavior" Prof. P. Rushton

The simple fact that Blacks lag behind the other Races of Man worldwide cannot be explained by socio-economic disparties alone. In fact, those disparities are but a symptom of the realities of Race and the differences inherent therein. In every part of the world the differences in economic "achievement," social stability, education, technological development, etc. between Negroids and Caucasoids(and Mongoloids & mixes thereof to varying degrees) is profound and consistent. Science clearly and reasonably explains this phenomenon. An army of egalitarian sociologists and their emotionally inspired twaddle cannot, unless one is inclined to accept such ideas on "faith" and then, there is no point discussing the scientific and sociobiological factors one way or the other.

Those are very good books Oldscratch, I'm not a racist but we need to look at the reality for human suffering, not some dream land.

 

[Patrick R.]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c4ac4a74-570f-11db-9110-0000779e2340.html


Integration trully has failed.

 

[OldScratch]

I live 5 minutes outside of Youngstown Ohio. The population is about 65% black. Integration has failed, everything you've mentioned is true. Most blacks are much poorer and less intelligent. One either goes to a black high school, or a white high school. There are few in betweens around here. We get tired of black people because they tend to cause trouble, rape and kill others. I believe that this wouldn't be as big of a problem if society was more integrated. I've always been separated from black people, and it has gotten to the point where I have a racist attitude because of that. It is true that the all black schools in my area aren't as of good schools as the all white ones. So what do you do to fix this problem? The answer is nothing ,because you can't make people move to a new area. This will go on forever. It is just going to get to the point where ALL of the white people move out of my area (that is what is happening right now), and then things will be even worse. My idea is to educate. Good education goes a long way.

I suspect it's most everyone's idea to educate. But for some devilishly "mysterious" reason, even now in 2006, that doesn't seem to work very well for Black children. Although being raised in a 'culture' wherein education itself is anathama surely doesn't help...there must be some overriding explanation for why this phenomenon persists, given that it remains consistent from Oakland to London to Berlin.

 

[A Dying Breed]

When the data were adjusted for class, income and other factors, they showed that the more people of different races lived in the same community, the greater the loss of trust. “They don’t trust the local mayor, they don’t trust the local paper, they don’t trust other people and they don’t trust institutions,”

Good, they're learning. Integration = Enlightenment

 

[Patrick R.]

Good, they're learning. Integration = Enlightenment

Do you live in a town with many different races? If so you must be able to see that humans are to primitive to except one another. The politicians that push for integration know that very well, but because of their hypocrisy they save that for the average Joe while they live in white neighborhoods.

 

[fah-q]

What about those of us that have no opinion or interest in integration? Not because we are bigots or hateful. What if you are just happy with the way things are? Would it be reasonable to think that Integration has failed only because your average person is just not interested in it?

 

[Patrick R.]

What about those of us that have no opinion or interest in integration? Not because we are bigots or hateful. What if you are just happy with the way things are? Would it be reasonable to think that Integration has failed only because your average person is just not interested in it?

I would like to expand this subject a little more…why is the Federal government so interested in forcing different peoples into the schools jobs etc. I mean, you have to have certain number on ‘minorities‘ even at the work place or you can be sued for discrimination. Why doesn’t the Federal government work on giving us high paying jobs rather then seeing a little Hispanic and a black boy in the same school living happily ever after (something that isn’t possible)?

Hell when the civil rights movement started they had to force whites and blacks into the same schools at gun point. How about force some homeless dirt bag into a factory or any other work place at gun point??

 

[fah-q]

I would like to expand this subject a little more…why is the Federal government so interested in forcing different peoples into the schools jobs etc. I mean, you have to have certain number on ‘minorities‘ even at the work place or you can be sued for discrimination. Why doesn’t the Federal government work on giving us high paying jobs rather then seeing a little Hispanic and a black boy in the same school living happily ever after (something that isn’t possible)?

Hell when the civil rights movement started they had to force whites and blacks into the same schools at gun point. How about force some homeless dirt bag into a factory or any other work place at gun point??

Excellent point Patrick. In the school system I grew up in, we have this program called Urban/Suburban. What they do is take inner city kids and bus them to the suburbs for an allegedly better education. Well, one year, a poor-white girl got into the program. As soon as they figured out that this was a white girl. They tried to stop her from participating. This in iteself supports the idea that these programs are not for opportunity. They are just another form of affirmative action.

 

[Horus]

Excellent point Patrick. In the school system I grew up in, we have this program called Urban/Suburban. What they do is take inner city kids and bus them to the suburbs for an allegedly better education. Well, one year, a poor-white girl got into the program. As soon as they figured out that this was a white girl. They tried to stop her from participating. This in iteself supports the idea that these programs are not for opportunity. They are just another form of affirmative action.

What did hey do to try to stop her from attending school in the Suburbs? Did they succeed?

 

[Patrick R.]

Excellent point Patrick. In the school system I grew up in, we have this program called Urban/Suburban. What they do is take inner city kids and bus them to the suburbs for an allegedly better education. Well, one year, a poor-white girl got into the program. As soon as they figured out that this was a white girl. They tried to stop her from participating. This in iteself supports the idea that these programs are not for opportunity. They are just another form of affirmative action.

Urban/Suburban? Wow...I went to school in New York but I was down in Rock Hill etc but they never had anything like that. So they denied a white person that was poor the opportunity for a better education? That in itself is racism. The thing is people in New York now affirmative action is nothing but horse shit but they would rather not tackle that issue, it would be easy to get the New Yorkers to go against it though once they were more vocal about it.

 

[fah-q]

This was in Upstate NY. For a good long while, the girl was taken out of the suburban school. After a some legal wrangling between the school district and the city, she was allowed back. The damage was already done though. There was even a black city counselman who stated that she was taking away an opportunity meant for a black child. You are right, it was racist but, when it is black on white, we are programmed to tolerate it. That is why integration is failing.