Is it ME, or has the style of songs moved away from the styles on Break, Time Lost...

[StocktontoMalone]

....and Wounded? Maybe it IS just me.....lol

I find myself gravitating towards Blueprint...., J9D10, BOAE, and TUG.

BTW, TUG is AWESOME!!!!!

Comatose, and Long Way Down - KICK ARSE!!!

I'm thinking East Coast swing guys.....Make it So!!! :Spin:

 

[The Stormbringer]

It´s not just you, Tug reminds me a lot of ABOTW, simply due to the keyboards (I only know "Sinking Sand" up until now, but that will surely change in about an hour...:Spin: ). However, it seems to be as catchy and powerful as the BOAE stuff. It definitely has little to nothing of the mellowness and melancholy of Wounded, Time Lost and Break.

 

[ProgMetalFan]

well... I think "Wounded" and "Break" were two of the most different albums in Enchant's catalogue... so the style of "Break" moved away from "Wounded"... Enchant always has a new sound.

 

[jjmannford]

I'm the opposite.

I gravitate towards Jug, Blink, and Tug a lot more. The sound of each CD is more pristine with the improved engineering and production skills of Doug and Mr Size. Ted's vocals have improved a lot, so now he is just awesome. I like Doug's gtr tone a lot more compared to Blueprint. The recent songs may not be as 'progressive' as Blueprint, but I personally like the hookiness that is on the last three. Long Way Down or Monday are extremely catchy tunes, and I find myself listening to these a lot more than say Nighttime Sky or East of Eden. Not that I don't like NS or EoE, conversely I like them a lot, but I must be in certain mood to really fully enjoy them, whereas, M or LWD reach in and grab me immediately.

I have listened to Tug incessantly for the better part of two weeks now, and I really think it is Enchant's best CD. Maybe it is just b/c it is so fresh, but I really think that now since Bill is on board, the 'Enchant' sound has hit its peak. His contribution on Tug really takes Enchant to a new level. I do think that the new CD is not as 'hard' as Blink, probably b/c of the amount of keys, but there are still definitely some excellent hard driving tunes like Queen of the Informed, Tug of War, and Living in a Movie. Nothing as hard as Prognosis on Tug, but Progtology is another kick ass instrumental (A lot more exciting to me, compositionally-wise). Other than Beautiful, every song is excellent. (Sorry, I think the Beautiful is a nice tune, and I enjoy it, but its just nothing extraordinary. Kinda like a Follow the Sun w/o an awesome gtr solo.)

Can't wait until I get the special edition, even though you lucky Europeans get it a week before us, Americans.

Later,
Jim

 

[Demonspell]

I don't know which style of Enchant I prefer...but I do hear parts that are reminiscent of Blueprint on the new album, which also sounds like a logical progression from Blink.

 

[Taedium Vitae]

I don't want to start a flame war or anything, so I'll just say that I hope this album was an experiment or something like that. And before you start, I'm not one of these Enchant purists; how can I be one who says "Tug of War sounds nothing like A Blueprint of the World, so it sucks!" and still like the hell out of Break and even J9D10, which up until now was my least "favourite" of them all (I'm generally not one of those people who have favourites of anything, but strangely enough, it's semi-applicable on Enchant).

That said, even though I might not like Tug of War at all, still love the old albums so I'm no bitter little craptard who will go "Waaaaaah, I will sell all my Enchant albums now!" or something. I'll just listen to Time Lost instead and be happy. Or, as happy as I'll ever be, rather.

But one thing I have to say... IMO, production/engineering isn't as opinion-based as some might think, and I can't really understand how you can think every album gets more and more pristine, but I won't call you an idiot or anything. That would be mean and uncalled for. I'll just say I disagree with that. Whereas BoaE is somewhat weak-sounding, I feel ToW sounds... don't kill me... amateurish. Break and J9D10 are easily the best-produced albums IMO. It's good Doug's tone isn't as awful on ToW as it was on BoaE though (Let me guess, you switched to Line6/POD right before BoaE, yes?). All that aside, it's the music that counts in the end. Production can make good music sound nicer, but it can't make bad music sound good, so it's not the be-all-end-all of music. I'm sure everyone can agree with that.

 

[ProgMetalFan]

But one thing I have to say... IMO, production/engineering isn't as opinion-based as some might think, and I can't really understand how you can think every album gets more and more pristine, but I won't call you an idiot or anything. That would be mean and uncalled for. I'll just say I disagree with that.

So you won't call us idiots... but you THINK we're idiots.

 

[Taedium Vitae]

Ack, crap wording. Nope, I didn't imply such a thing. Sorry.

 

[jjmannford]

I don't want to start a flame war or anything, so I'll just say that I hope this album was an experiment or something like that. And before you start, I'm not one of these Enchant purists; how can I be one who says "Tug of War sounds nothing like A Blueprint of the World, so it sucks!" and still like the hell out of Break and even J9D10, which up until now was my least "favourite" of them all (I'm generally not one of those people who have favourites of anything, but strangely enough, it's semi-applicable on Enchant).

That said, even though I might not like Tug of War at all, still love the old albums so I'm no bitter little craptard who will go "Waaaaaah, I will sell all my Enchant albums now!" or something. I'll just listen to Time Lost instead and be happy. Or, as happy as I'll ever be, rather.

But one thing I have to say... IMO, production/engineering isn't as opinion-based as some might think, and I can't really understand how you can think every album gets more and more pristine, but I won't call you an idiot or anything. That would be mean and uncalled for. I'll just say I disagree with that. Whereas BoaE is somewhat weak-sounding, I feel ToW sounds... don't kill me... amateurish. Break and J9D10 are easily the best-produced albums IMO. It's good Doug's tone isn't as awful on ToW as it was on BoaE though (Let me guess, you switched to Line6/POD right before BoaE, yes?). All that aside, it's the music that counts in the end. Production can make good music sound nicer, but it can't make bad music sound good, so it's not the be-all-end-all of music. I'm sure everyone can agree with that.

Ok, thats fine that you dont like Tug of War. It is a bit more experimental with new keyboard sounds, funkier bass, etc. Some others will not like it because it is not as 'hard' as Blink, maybe not as 'progressive' as Blueprint. Whatever. I know that the trademark 'Enchant' sound is still there, so many fans will think Tug is great like me. The melody of Comatose is beautiful. The chorus of Living in a Movie reminds me a lot of the song Break especially with the drums, but overall it is a lot more exciting of a song. I can't see how any Enchant fan can say that they definitely don't like the Tug yet, because you have not probably listened to it enough for it to grow on you. Songs on Juggling like Shell, Traces, and Juggling Knives were a bit different to me in the beginning, and I didnt really like them at first. They grew on me eventually.

Yes production/engineering is a subjective thing, but you can't tell me that the production on Blueprint is on the par with the last three Enchant CDs. Calling Tug's P/E amateurish is bold, and unfair. Back it up with some proof. In what Tug songs, does the production sound fall short????

 

[Taedium Vitae]

I know no repeated listenings will do the trick. I've listened to this album maybe 10-12 times really TRYING to like it, but no go. I usually like albums right away anyway, and I would like to say I'm not a close-minded person when it comes to music. Heck, I can (and often do) enjoy what some people might call "noise". Avant-garde and electro-acoustic music for example. But I don't cry myself to sleep over it. I'll just keep on listening to the previous albums and hope the next one will suit my tastes. And if it doesn't? Oh well, it's not the end of the world... and it's not an unusual phaenomenon really. I'm used to it.

Regarding the production issue. "In what Tug songs, does the production fall short????" you ask. Well, as the production is even across the whole album I have to say every single song. I think the mix is unbalanced. Some odd stereo separation. Bass is too floaty and lacks clarity/punch. Only starts to getting noticed in the tapping parts. Guitar sound is, whilst better than BoaE (which is horrible in that regard -- sounds incredibly digital and "waspy"), a bit lacking, but solo tone is OK. Drum mix isn't that bad, though I think the cymbals lack shimmer. Toms are recessed. Keys are OK, but some patches are a tad annoying (the semi-outro solo on the title track for example). All over it sounds very tinny and...distant. "Dusty". Impersonal. Hmmm. I'm not good at describing sound like this.

And well, it's in many regards better than the Blueprint yes, of course. I mean that was their first album, recorded in the "glorious" early 90s. Not many non-jazz albums recorded then with good sound. I didn't compare to Blueprint anyway (for these reasons), just Break and J9D10, which IMO are the best ones in terms of production.
I mean, you can get very well-sounding (pro) recordings out of semi-budget digital gear + a computer nowadays, as long as you know what you're doing. It's actually amazing what you can accomplish with that stuff now.

But then again, it's just sugar on the cake. I have lots of albums with terrible production I just can't stop listening to; the music is what matters. I just find it very hard to understand someone thinking ToW sounds better than Break or J9D10. It's mind-boggling to me, but I'm probably just screwed up in the head. So ignore me.

Anyway, am I making myself clear? Have I given you enough "proof"? (Strange concept you've got there though...proof... ah well, it doesn't matter.)

 

[Douglas A. Ott]

It always amazes me how everyone on this planet seems to see, hear, feel and remember differently from each other. But that is what makes life so interesting, isn't it? I mean a coin would be pretty boring if both sides were the same.

What is reality? Your perception of what you think is reality or your perception plus a 3rd party perspective to agree that it's reality? The line is some what blurred sometimes.

My opinion: Tug is the best sounding record I've ever done. Why? It was recorded at 24bit/48k resolution. I used better equipment to record the instrumentation. Tom also upgraded his studio, using the best A/D to D/A converters made. We spent more time mixing than ever before as well. End result: The best sonically sounding Enchant album to date. But that's just my opinion, it can't be reality with out 3rd party perspective. Well, I got 3rd party perspective. Everyone who I've personally talked to has said exactly the same thing to me, with out me even asking. Interviewers, Reviewers, Record Company, Distributer, Promoters, DJ's, Masterer, Mixer, Band and now the Fans say..."It's the best sounding Enchant album to date!" That says to me that it is just that. Kind of like the 4 out of 5 Dentist thing, only 999 out of 1000 Enchant fans agree, in this case.

I think the question I have for you is, What is it that made you dislike this record so much, that you've spent this much energy to make sure everyone knows how you feel about it? I really didn't care for the last Rush album much but I didn't go to thier web site and try to convince
ther fans that it sucked. I mean that's like telling a groom on his wedding day that you think his wife is ugly! Expect to get your ass kicked or at least hear some colorful metephores.

I'm sure you could do something more positive with your time than knocking my work.

BTW- Break and Juggling were recorded exclusively with a Line 6 guitar amp. I started using my Mesa Boogie rig on Blink again and Tug as well.

So, if you don't like the record, no big deal...there is no accounting for taste. I just try and do the best I can with what little budget I have, if it's not good enough for you...don't listen anymore.

Doug

I know no repeated listenings will do the trick. I've listened to this album maybe 10-12 times really TRYING to like it, but no go. I usually like albums right away anyway, and I would like to say I'm not a close-minded person when it comes to music. Heck, I can (and often do) enjoy what some people might call "noise". Avant-garde and electro-acoustic music for example. But I don't cry myself to sleep over it. I'll just keep on listening to the previous albums and hope the next one will suit my tastes. And if it doesn't? Oh well, it's not the end of the world... and it's not an unusual phaenomenon really. I'm used to it.

Regarding the production issue. "In what Tug songs, does the production fall short????" you ask. Well, as the production is even across the whole album I have to say every single song. I think the mix is unbalanced. Some odd stereo separation. Bass is too floaty and lacks clarity/punch. Only starts to getting noticed in the tapping parts. Guitar sound is, whilst better than BoaE (which is horrible in that regard -- sounds incredibly digital and "waspy"), a bit lacking, but solo tone is OK. Drum mix isn't that bad, though I think the cymbals lack shimmer. Toms are recessed. Keys are OK, but some patches are a tad annoying (the semi-outro solo on the title track for example). All over it sounds very tinny and...distant. "Dusty". Impersonal. Hmmm. I'm not good at describing sound like this.

And well, it's in many regards better than the Blueprint yes, of course. I mean that was their first album, recorded in the "glorious" early 90s. Not many non-jazz albums recorded then with good sound. I didn't compare to Blueprint anyway (for these reasons), just Break and J9D10, which IMO are the best ones in terms of production.
I mean, you can get very well-sounding (pro) recordings out of semi-budget digital gear + a computer nowadays, as long as you know what you're doing. It's actually amazing what you can accomplish with that stuff now.

But then again, it's just sugar on the cake. I have lots of albums with terrible production I just can't stop listening to; the music is what matters. I just find it very hard to understand someone thinking ToW sounds better than Break or J9D10. It's mind-boggling to me, but I'm probably just screwed up in the head. So ignore me.

Anyway, am I making myself clear? Have I given you enough "proof"? (Strange concept you've got there though...proof... ah well, it doesn't matter.)

 

[Alberik]

Taedium Vitae - listened to Tug of War 10 to 12 already? And it hasn't grown on you? Why bother trying even more? It will not grow on you. So, stop that and listen to David Torn instead. I did listen to David Torn 10 or 12 times but I think that his record 'What Means Solid, Traveler' is bollocks! And I like noise and experimentation as much as your average Joe.

You see, I have a similar problem. I have a friend who is a huge fan of ENCHANT, even bigger as me in respect that he saw the band live (together with MARILLION). Although I nowadays think that he doesn't know s**t from Shinola. Recently, he's been to a KING CRIMSON concert. And he was so impressed, up to the point that since then, he totally disses every musical production comes across his way. Quote: "KING CRIMSON rules, 'The Power to Believe' is the best record ever, everything else is s**te." Literally. Of course, he dissed Tug of War, too. I really listened to his negative ramblings about Tug of War for a minute but then I said, who the f**k is he to direct me and my musical taste?!? His mind still fresh from an overdose of KING CRIMSON and he disses ENCHANT?!? Don't he know better?!? If we were all to do that, then we might as well f**k the world and listen to goddamn Britney Spears and watch 'Titanic' five times in a row!

I have to say that I don't have the best ENCHANT record. Each and every record is a great musical production in its own. And each has its own stories to tell. And that makes it more interesting, and long-lasting. Tug of War is a great record. Period. Btw, I still believe that the representation of all the covers of previous albums somehow illustrates that the music on Tug of War is new, yet with slight nuances of the past efforts. If you are a true fan, you will hear that.

Doug - don't be upset! It doesn't look good on you If I were you, I wouldn't give a damn about that Vitae fellow. Anyone who can play guitar as good as you, should not be bothered by petty accussations, which have to do more with self-indulgence than with your music. And I really do hope to catch you live in October, in Germany. An autograph of yours would be a dream come true! Btw, I really, really, really like the guitar work on 'See No Evil'. I know everyone says 'Comatose' is your best work ever, but 'See No Evil' is in a league of its own.

And, yes, Taedium Vitae - which Torn records do you recommend?


Peace, and I am out.

 

[ebass]

Hey everyone has a take ? and it is fine if you don,t like Tug but get a clue on the production issues. What have you done? please? and what is the point in knocking it?

The guitar sounds better than ever? and I could not be happier with the Bass? Doug and Tom did an amazing job! This one is not perfect by any means but you really make no sense with your opinion? none?

Good thing your not an engineer

It always amazes me how everyone on this planet seems to see, hear, feel and remember differently from each other. But that is what makes life so interesting, isn't it? I mean a coin would be pretty boring if both sides were the same.

What is reality? Your perception of what you think is reality or your perception plus a 3rd party perspective to agree that it's reality? The line is some what blurred sometimes.

My opinion: Tug is the best sounding record I've ever done. Why? It was recorded at 24bit/48k resolution. I used better equipment to record the instrumentation. Tom also upgraded his studio, using the best A/D to D/A converters made. We spent more time mixing than ever before as well. End result: The best sonically sounding Enchant album to date. But that's just my opinion, it can't be reality with out 3rd party perspective. Well, I got 3rd party perspective. Everyone who I've personally talked to has said exactly the same thing to me, with out me even asking. Interviewers, Reviewers, Record Company, Distributer, Promoters, DJ's, Masterer, Mixer, Band and now the Fans say..."It's the best sounding Enchant album to date!" That says to me that it is just that. Kind of like the 4 out of 5 Dentist thing, only 999 out of 1000 Enchant fans agree, in this case.

I think the question I have for you is, What is it that made you dislike this record so much, that you've spent this much energy to make sure everyone knows how you feel about it? I really didn't care for the last Rush album much but I didn't go to thier web site and try to convince
ther fans that it sucked. I mean that's like telling a groom on his wedding day that you think his wife is ugly! Expect to get your ass kicked or at least hear some colorful metephores.

I'm sure you could do something more positive with your time than knocking my work.

BTW- Break and Juggling were recorded exclusively with a Line 6 guitar amp. I started using my Mesa Boogie rig on Blink again and Tug as well.

So, if you don't like the record, no big deal...there is no accounting for taste. I just try and do the best I can with what little budget I have, if it's not good enough for you...don't listen anymore.

Doug

 

[keeper of the flame]

.

My opinion: Tug is the best sounding record I've ever done. Why? It was recorded at 24bit/48k resolution. I used better equipment to record the instrumentation. Tom also upgraded his studio, using the best A/D to D/A converters made. We spent more time mixing than ever before as well. End result: The best sonically sounding Enchant album to date. But that's just my opinion, it can't be reality with out 3rd party perspective. Well, I got 3rd party perspective. Everyone who I've personally talked to has said exactly the same thing to me, with out me even asking. Interviewers, Reviewers, Record Company, Distributer, Promoters, DJ's, Masterer, Mixer, Band and now the Fans say..."It's the best sounding Enchant album to date!" That says to me that it is just that. Kind of like the 4 out of 5 Dentist thing, only 999 out of 1000 Enchant fans agree, in this case.

I'm sure you could do something more positive with your time than knocking my work.

BTW- Break and Juggling were recorded exclusively with a Line 6 guitar amp. I started using my Mesa Boogie rig on Blink again and Tug as well.

So, if you don't like the record, no big deal...there is no accounting for taste. I just try and do the best I can with what little budget I have, if it's not good enough for you...don't listen anymore.

Doug

Right, Doug. Tell it like it is! Don't get upset over anyone who thinks he knows something he doesn't. I too find this album best sounding up to date. I've always liked your guitartone. But surely on the last two albums (BOAE and TOW) it's really cool. So you started using the Mesa Boogie rig again. Good choice. Btw. I wonder how people can be so judgemental when they don't know half of what it takes to produce an album. In that case it's better to ignore these comments. Anyway, you've straightened it out. No-one can argue with that. If anyone knows what it took to come up with these results it must be you.

 

[StocktontoMalone]

WOW! When I posted this, I had NO idea it was going to splinter into a smear campaign...

I was just commenting on the STYLE of music...the direction, and the natural evolution of a band...

Never crossed my simple mind that it would turn into an AD HOMINEM attack....

I have not a musical atom in my body, so I'm awestruck, and amazed at ANYBODY who plays music...even TINY TIM...

In the last 3 years(yes, I'm a late bloomer) ENCHANT has filled my life with many musical palettes of emotion, and smiling times...and I cannot imagine the gall it takes to RIP apart someone's life's work, in forum in which the individual members frequent!

I'm all for free-speech, but C'mon.....EAST COAST SWING!!!!!!

In the immortal words of Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard.....ENGAGE!!!!!

 

[ProgMetalFan]

Engage!

 

[Viadragon]

Engage!

Sheesh, ya beat me to it, I was gonna quote Jim..."Beam me up, Scotty..." (Ah yes, the ultimate engineer..)

Anyhoo, my Latin's a tad weak, but TV's name kinda says it all..."loathing of life" is how I translated it at first glance...

TV strikes me as the kinda man (oops, don't want to offend anyone by assuming he's a man...:Smug who likes to hear the sound of his own wind blowing...kinda like a buddy (also of the manly sex) who cuts down every live performance we go to "he screwed up on that blah blah, the blah blah blah was cranked too blah blah blah" ...but what does he know, he wears a Thin Lizzy shirt to a Dream Theater show.

But I digress into cattiness...so sorry. I'm truly meaning this all tongue in cheek (ouch, I bit my tongue).

What I REALLY wanted to say is, geez, Enchant, you are one HOT looking group of guys...oh, yeah, and you play great music too!

Luv,
Kristin, Via non-flaming Dragon

 

[ProgMetalFan]

What's wrong with Thin Lizzy? I love Thin Lizzy!

 

[jjmannford]

What I REALLY wanted to say is, geez, Enchant, you are one HOT looking group of guys...oh, yeah, and you play great music too!!

Luv,
Kristin, Via non-flaming Dragon

That is the perfect marketing angle...........FIRST PROG BOY BAND:Spin:

 

[DiscoDave]

I can't comment on production value, but I'd like to say it's amusing for me to hear Doug speak...a very sort of philosophical attitude. Now I'm half-expecting the next album to be named, "Flipping the Coin", or something like that. =)

Normally I'd avoid getting into philosophy, but beings as this thread is a bit of a trainwreck anyway...

I'd say we aren't equipped to identify reality no matter how many "third parties" agree. Every sense is deceptive...we've all seen things that aren't there, heard things that weren't said, smelled things thinking it was something else...even if every human being agreed that something was "real", the entire group could still be wrong based on the fact that individuals can be wrong.

Philosophy is fun. *nerd*

BTW: Anyone know where I could get Wounded? Is it out of print, never to return again?