Israel's military actions justified?

RookParliament said:
Iran does not want war with Israel. Israel does not want war with Iran. Israel wants Hezbollah out of Lebanon. Will they succeed? No. Are they making Hezbollah more powerful as an image after years of many Lebanese working to get Hezbollah out of the mainstream? Yes.

True


Norsemaiden said:
If Syria hadn't withdrawn from Lebanon last year, how would this situation be playing out? Would Hezbollah still have kidnapped the soldiers? Would Israel be attacking as they are now?

Yes Norsemaiden they would have still kidnapped the soldiers. I have said in my previous posts that they did kindapp a soldier last year, and the Syrians were still here. Personally, I think Syria has got nothing to do with Hezbollah they are "friends" but they do not influence each other, at least no in the way that Iran "influences" Hezbollah.
 
I don't get this. Any nation violates another's sovereignty like so, the US would have a shit fit. A group takes 2 SOLDIERS, 2 combatants, and a military action is launched, killing civilians. When the Israelis do it, the US does nothing, but the second Hezbollah kills a civilian, they're mean bad terrorists. I hate this stigma that protects Israel from anything. These days, you can't even state your opposition to the state of Israel without being attacked by some group or another in America, or being politically blacklisted

The worst part is, my tax dollars support the Israeli war machine. My taxes go to killing innocent Arab children at the hands of a bunch of religious nuts
 
I notice some here have posted that Hezbollah kidnapped and killed soldiers on the Lebanese side of the border, which is false. This was a cross-border raid, the exact language you will find in any description of the event. Having said that, accepting this fact and that Hezbollah provoked this reaction doesn't mean you must agree with all Israeli policy. This isn't a soccer match where you choose a side and hate the other.
 
Why does everyone bash Israel if you had 100 countries wanting you obliterated you would defend yourselves at all costs WTF is wrong with you all. The Jews have been brutally attacked for thousands of years I wonder why they go crazy on there enemy to defend them selves some of you are living in wonderland. And no I'm not Jewish or do i subscribe to any religion.
 
The question is a foolish one: of course they have the 'right.' They possess the strength, the motivation and the will, and those powers who could intervene have no interest in doing so.

It's still the impotent flailing of a broken democracy, but they certainly have the 'right.'
 
Oh come on everyone, it's time to celebrate. This means the end times are upon us. Free Heaven for Everyone!
 
troopsofdoom said:
Why does everyone bash Israel if you had 100 countries wanting you obliterated you would defend yourselves at all costs WTF is wrong with you all. The Jews have been brutally attacked for thousands of years I wonder why they go crazy on there enemy to defend them selves some of you are living in wonderland. And no I'm not Jewish or do i subscribe to any religion.

Because if you know the history of Israel and the Jewish people who run the country you find this types of actions as no suprise and all. They are more focused on destroying Lebanon then rescuing any soldiers that may have been kidnapped.

And "The Jews have been brutally attacked for thousands of years"... yes, and we are always reminded of this so that we can feel sorry for them and let them do what they want. I expect something to happen soon with this situation for us to feel sorry for them again and expand the war to Syria and Iran.
 
The Bringer said:
Because if you know the history of Israel and the Jewish people who run the country you find this types of actions as no suprise and all. They are more focused on destroying Lebanon then rescuing any soldiers that may have been kidnapped.

And "The Jews have been brutally attacked for thousands of years"... yes, and we are always reminded of this so that we can feel sorry for them and let them do what they want. I expect something to happen soon with this situation for us to feel sorry for them again and expand the war to Syria and Iran.

Well said Bringer. Actually the Jews have been brutally attacking for thousands of years. People kindly play host to them in their midst, and are rewarded by slaughter and treachery. If they don't get their way, that is "persecution". They bring the anger upon themselves eventually - there's only so much anyone can take.

The UN is toothless, so said RookParliament. In many ways that is true, after all the US doesn't care to wait for UN mandates when it wants to declare war. The UN relies on funds from the US. Really the UN is just a window dressing of "human rights" to fool people into thinking there is some justice.

But what about UN sanctions? These were imposed on Iraq and resulted in mass deaths, eg. 500,000 children. Could not this "tooth" bite Israel also? It could, but it won't. Because the UN is totally false.
 
troopsofdoom said:
Why does everyone bash Israel if you had 100 countries wanting you obliterated you would defend yourselves at all costs WTF is wrong with you all. The Jews have been brutally attacked for thousands of years I wonder why they go crazy on there enemy to defend them selves some of you are living in wonderland. And no I'm not Jewish or do i subscribe to any religion.

Didnt Israel use terrorism, hostage taking, and threats to gain their country from the British? Hm...seems a bit hypocritical doesnt it. I suppose it helps if one is ignorant of history.
 
from Norsemaiden...
Well said Bringer. Actually the Jews have been brutally attacking for thousands of years. People kindly play host to them in their midst, and are rewarded by slaughter and treachery. If they don't get their way, that is "persecution". They bring the anger upon themselves eventually - there's only so much anyone can take.

I'm fairly shocked by this. Do you consider the Chronicles of the Elders of Zion to be factual Jewish doctrine? I wouldn't be surprised if you did. These blanket statements about Jewish "treachery" and "brutally attacking for thousands of years" are nothing more than anti-Jewish drivel, which sound more like something a radical Muslim cleric would say as he describes the "Zionist pigs". I would expect better from people who consider themselves intelligence and educated.
On the issue of Israel somehow using 8 dead soldiers and 2 taken hostage as an "excuse" to "invade" Lebanon, surely many recall that Israel occupied Lebanon 18 years ago and it was an unpopular and difficult era in Israeli history. It can be compared to the American experience in Vietnam, with obvious differences in the enemies military capabilities. I seriously doubt if Israel has any intention of repeating that unpopular era in their history. Not to mention the fact that if their intention was to occupy Lebanon they would have already begun to occupy the Hezbollah controlled south, which they haven't.
Civilian deaths are sad and unfortunate, and I'm sure we all wish it wasn't happening. However, Hezbollah is using civilian structures and neighborhoods from which to launch missile attacks on Israel. When an Israeli warplane locks on to the source of a recent missile launch, they take out the target. The fact that Hezbollah uses civilians as shields and as a propoganda tool seems to be working in some sources of media, and obviously works on many in this forum.
 
Keltoi said:
Civilian deaths are sad and unfortunate, and I'm sure we all wish it wasn't happening. However, Hezbollah is using civilian structures and neighborhoods from which to launch missile attacks on Israel. When an Israeli warplane locks on to the source of a recent missile launch, they take out the target. The fact that Hezbollah uses civilians as shields and as a propoganda tool seems to be working in some sources of media, and obviously works on many in this forum.

Keltoi, it goes both way. And, unless you are a member of Hezbollah you can't be sure about that. I am not denying it, as I too have heard many rumours that they are doing this despite the fact that Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah has staunchly denied this.
What I can tell you though, and it's not something I get from the media or from "Hezbollah" propaganda, is that the Israelis so far have killed more than 200 civilians and in most of the cases nobody knows why they are targetting them. Now if they might be thinking these civilians are shielding Hezbollah missiles/soldiers, so far they have missed. I have seen (with my own eyes) two of the buildings they hit and destroyed while massacring the families inside, and these kind of buildings couldn't even fit a Bazooka!.
They have repeatedly targetted the Lebanese army, they attacked a Church today...They massacred a Lebanese Red Cross/Civil Defence convoy which was rescuing wounded innocent civilians.
Talk about propaganda...
 
Keltoi said:
from Norsemaiden...
Well said Bringer. Actually the Jews have been brutally attacking for thousands of years. People kindly play host to them in their midst, and are rewarded by slaughter and treachery. If they don't get their way, that is "persecution". They bring the anger upon themselves eventually - there's only so much anyone can take.

I'm fairly shocked by this. Do you consider the Chronicles of the Elders of Zion to be factual Jewish doctrine? I wouldn't be surprised if you did. These blanket statements about Jewish "treachery" and "brutally attacking for thousands of years" are nothing more than anti-Jewish drivel, which sound more like something a radical Muslim cleric would say as he describes the "Zionist pigs". I would expect better from people who consider themselves intelligence and educated.
On the issue of Israel somehow using 8 dead soldiers and 2 taken hostage as an "excuse" to "invade" Lebanon, surely many recall that Israel occupied Lebanon 18 years ago and it was an unpopular and difficult era in Israeli history. It can be compared to the American experience in Vietnam, with obvious differences in the enemies military capabilities. I seriously doubt if Israel has any intention of repeating that unpopular era in their history. Not to mention the fact that if their intention was to occupy Lebanon they would have already begun to occupy the Hezbollah controlled south, which they haven't.
Civilian deaths are sad and unfortunate, and I'm sure we all wish it wasn't happening. However, Hezbollah is using civilian structures and neighborhoods from which to launch missile attacks on Israel. When an Israeli warplane locks on to the source of a recent missile launch, they take out the target. The fact that Hezbollah uses civilians as shields and as a propoganda tool seems to be working in some sources of media, and obviously works on many in this forum.

But Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, not a sovereign state. Thats the difference. Their (Hezbollah) actions are already violent, cowardly, without regard to human life, and illegal; whereas Israel is supposedly a western-style democracy, with all of the legal guarentees and rights, geopolitical and diplomatic requirements of a State.
 
Arguably the war in Afghanistan and Iraq was all on behalf of Israel, and organised by the Israeli powers in the US. The war was illegal too, having not received a UN mandate - and based on lies about WMDs.

Summary of how the US became involved in the First World War:
Throughout the war Germany had always treated the Jews with great respect and the media in the US was highly sympathetic towards Germany. The Jews particularly disliked the Czar of Russia and wanted Germany to beat them (in the end of course the Jewish communists murdered him and his family). The war had been raging for a few years, and then there was a change of tactic. An agreement (The Balfour Declaration) was arranged with England, which had a mandate over Palestine, that in return for promising the Jews a homeland in Palestine they would bring the US into the war on the opposing side to Germany.

"Now those same Jews, when they saw the possibility of getting Palestine, they went to England and they made this deal. At that time, everything changed, like the traffic light that changes from red to green. Where the newspapers had been all pro-German, where they'd been telling the people of the difficulties that Germany was having fighting Great Britain commercially and in other respects, all of a sudden the Germans were no good. They were villains. They were Huns. They were shooting Red Cross nurses. They were cutting off babies' hands. And they were no good.
Well, shortly after that, Mr. Wilson declared war on Germany."

http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/freedman.htm
Now this is straight out of the mouth of Benjamin H Freedman

"Mr. Freedman, born in 1890, was a successful Jewish businessman of New York City who was at one time the principal owner of the Woodbury Soap Company."

In any case, if you look at the history of the time, it is glaring clear that this is more than likely the truth of what happened.

Edward Gibbon, 18th century British historian:
"From the reign of Nero to that of Antonininus Pius, the Jews discovered a fierce impatience of the dominion of Rome, which repeatedly broke out in the most furious massacres and insurrections. Humanity is shocked at the recital of the horrid cruelties which they committed in the cities of Egypt, of Cyprus, and of Cyrene, where they dwelt in treacherous friendship with the unsuspecting natives...In Cyrene they massacred 220,000 Greeks; in Cyprus 240,000; in Egypt a very great multitude" from History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
 
Me and Norsemaiden think very much alike.

US evacuation has begun... anyone want to go out on a limb and say they get attacked while Europeans and others who are being evacuated arn't? Would that smell fishy to anyone else besides me?
 
The Bringer said:
Me and Norsemaiden think very much alike.

US evacuation has begun... anyone want to go out on a limb and say they get attacked while Europeans and others who are being evacuated arn't? Would that smell fishy to anyone else besides me?
I wouldn't be surprised if Israel launches an "accidental" attack on some innocent westerners. The US would never think twice about criticizing it

Bush came on TV today and said Hezbollah was to blame for this whole mess. Yeah, big bad Hezbollah is wrong for taking 2 combatants. Who cares that the Israelis bombed civilian neighborhoods, the US finds 2 IDF soldiers worth more than an Arab

I'm tired of my government supporting this illegitimate state's brutal campaigns against innocent people
 
speed said:
Didnt Israel use terrorism, hostage taking, and threats to gain their country from the British? Hm...seems a bit hypocritical doesnt it. I suppose it helps if one is ignorant of history.

See what you have here Troopsofdoom is your typical superior attitude coming through, what you said was correct... But hell they all want to support the underdog ysee, and the underdogs are the palastinians.... to them its just sport, they foolishly believe on their forums that land belongs to people..lol. and in their twisted heads they put politics and "history" ahead of people and childrens lives. I aint no historian dude but I woulndnt have blamed the jews for pulling any trick in the 1950s to get land... especially after what they had just come through in the previous decade..... would you. Well said troopsofdoom for speaking what you felt and not following the sheep. They are the reason the world is so fucked up as it is. these people love it they love the smell of blood, they will be tuning in to the news on the hour praying for more bombs...... like the spectators at the bull ring....or watching News television whiping themselves into a TV frenzy. and why?..... probably because the world cups finished and theirs nothing else on. :headbang:


www.Agankast.com
( peace and Love )
 
Norsemaiden said:
The UN is toothless, so said RookParliament. In many ways that is true, after all the US doesn't care to wait for UN mandates when it wants to declare war. The UN relies on funds from the US. Really the UN is just a window dressing of "human rights" to fool people into thinking there is some justice.

But what about UN sanctions? These were imposed on Iraq and resulted in mass deaths, eg. 500,000 children. Could not this "tooth" bite Israel also? It could, but it won't. Because the UN is totally false.

I agree. Spot on. It completely pisses me off. I wish the US would be utterly stripped of all its power and arrogance, and also Britain as well. They're almost as bad as each other. As for both the UN and EU, they're both useless.

I wonder if anyone will ever get any backbone sometime soon and attack the US again instead of just sitting and moaning? No doubt if they do (and they surely will do) there'll be a whole new 'War Against Terrorism'. I'm sick of hearing how this sick act and that sick act were attempts to quash terrorism. It's all bollocks. The Israelis blew up some house that supposedly based some terrorist. Turns out they killed a man, his wife and their ten kids. The baby was decapitated and they could only find the head. Two of the kids ahev disappeared so officials think they were just vaporised pretty much. Way to go, I'm sure that was a pre-emptive strike against those little kids being future terrorists and surely the world is a safer place.

I just worked myself up about it now.
 
EGOR said:
See what you have here Troopsofdoom is your typical superior attitude coming through, what you said was correct... But hell they all want to support the underdog ysee, and the underdogs are the palastinians.... to them its just sport, they foolishly believe on their forums that land belongs to people..lol. and in their twisted heads they put politics and "history" ahead of people and childrens lives. I aint no historian dude but I woulndnt have blamed the jews for pulling any trick in the 1950s to get land... especially after what they had just come through in the previous decade..... would you. Well said troopsofdoom for speaking what you felt and not following the sheep. They are the reason the world is so fucked up as it is. these people love it they love the smell of blood, they will be tuning in to the news on the hour praying for more bombs...... like the spectators at the bull ring....or watching News television whiping themselves into a TV frenzy. and why?..... probably because the world cups finished and theirs nothing else on. :headbang:


www.Agankast.com
( peace and Love )

Its always amusing to read your.....posts.