Judge sentences Hispanic men to learn English

Seriously, you're a real fucking asshole. You can't just make your point in a civilized manor, however valid it may be. You have to include unnecessary insults towards your opponent. You seem like an intelligent person, yet you ruin by being a complete dick every time you put your fingers to the keyboard.

:lol:

You think I don't know I'm an asshole? I enjoy being a fucking dick to stupid people. It's one of the greatest things in life, and anyone who denies that is either full of shit or one of the dumber ones. I don't "ruin" anything by being a dick. That's half the fun. I don't have to be a dick, and I've had many arguments in which I wasn't a dick. I just choose to be a dick. In my defense, however, just look at the people I'm arguing against. It's not like putting out a rational argument is going to do anything, so it doesn't really make a difference how I make my point.
 
:lol:

You think I don't know I'm an asshole? I enjoy being a fucking dick to stupid people. It's one of the greatest things in life, and anyone who denies that is either full of shit or one of the dumber ones. I don't "ruin" anything by being a dick. That's half the fun. I don't have to be a dick, and I've had many arguments in which I wasn't a dick. I just choose to be a dick. In my defense, however, just look at the people I'm arguing against. It's not like putting out a rational argument is going to do anything, so it doesn't really make a difference how I make my point.

:lol::lol:!
 
SHIIIIIIIIIIIT, nigga, please. I live in Mexican central, and we have AMERICAN born hispanics that refuse to learn English. We also have PLENTY of illegals (and legal mexican immigrants) who refuse to learn english. So don't hand anyone that bullshit about "oh they're trying to learn english as fast as possible" until you KNOW what you're talking about. Stupidest post I've read so far......

Don't call me nigga. I guess maybe I shouldn't have made it sound like I meant all Mexicans. Yes the ones in areas with mostly Mexicans don't try to learn English, but then again theres so many intolerant people that they would probably move away from those areas, so there wouldn't be much of a problem. It pisses me off how I hear people say on the news "I do my grocery shopping here, and everyone speaks Spanish". Well you have a problem here you can either
a) Learn the tiny amount of words that will allow you to do your grocery shopping
b) Shop somewhere else

Its stupid how people sit around and let stuff piss them off. If you have a problem, do something about it, don't just tell the world what to do.
 
:lol:

You think I don't know I'm an asshole? I enjoy being a fucking dick to stupid people. It's one of the greatest things in life, and anyone who denies that is either full of shit or one of the dumber ones. I don't "ruin" anything by being a dick. That's half the fun. I don't have to be a dick, and I've had many arguments in which I wasn't a dick. I just choose to be a dick. In my defense, however, just look at the people I'm arguing against. It's not like putting out a rational argument is going to do anything, so it doesn't really make a difference how I make my point.

Abstinence makes his posts even better.
 
There is not "rule" that you have to know English you stupid fucking schmuck. There is no official fucking language of the US, regardless of how overwhelmingly prominent one is over all others. Until English is made the OMG OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, you all need to seriously shut the fuck up and stop bitching, because knowing English is not a necessary condition of being a United States citizen, regardless of what the millions of uneducated hicks and retarded judges across the nation think. The fact that there are small, niche communities all around the country from many different backgrounds, not just Hispanic, but also many different Eastern European countries, Arab, Jewish, Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, etc., where the overwhelmingly predominant language is the language of their ancestral lands, in no way reduces their rights as citizens and certainly does not put them on a lower stature than a good, God fearing, apple pie eating, baseball playing, flag saluting, English speaking, right white and blue blood patriotic American.

Fuck off to all of you ignorant faggots.

But it does reduce their rights as citizens, although not in the way I'm sure you think I'm implying. It isn't that those who don't speak English should automatically be treated any worse than those who do by those who do; but by simply not knowing English, they're limiting their rights. It's a sad fact, but you're right Nec; it's hurting them more than it is us. I'm not sure we can force the rest of the country to cater to every foreign language that is spoken by different ethnic or racial groups within this country. Certain areas of the United States have already made significant steps to improve communication between different racial groups; but small mom n' pop stores or local companies cannot be held responsible for knowing every single language that is spoken in the United States. I feel that it is the responsibility of foreigners to learn the language that is most widely spoken in a certain country. It's unfair and inefficient to force a new language upon a nation simply because members of that race or ethnicity are beginning to come to that country. It makes much more sense to make it a requirement that the foreigners learn to adopt the common language of the nation they're going to. I understand that America has no national language, but I'm not sure it needs to be set in stone for most people to realize that it's English.

Why?

And please don't say "BECAUSE ALL OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE THEIR OWN ENFORCED OFFICIAL LANGUAGE LOLWTF". America was founded and still stands on very different and atypical ground compared to most countries.

Because it would be more efficient. The reason most other countries have a national language is because it improves communication. This in turn improves all aspects of society. National languages simply make sense.

Regardless of whether or not English should be the official language, the mere fact that it's not means that your whole fucking point is utterly stupid and baseless. I don't know how the myth that the US has an official language has ever crept into the public psyche, but it has, and it has deluded people into believing that if you don't speak English, you're not American, and some people, like Krigloch and his hatred of "stupid ass spanish," have even evidently taken so far as to detest the very idea of knowing another language.

Personally, I wouldn't object to making English the official language of the country. After all, it is obviously the overwhelmingly predominant language and is the de facto official language of public address. But again, that is irrelevant to the current reality in which there is no official language, so irrational hatred of those who don't speak English is truly baseless. Trust me, I'm sure these people not knowing English hurts them a lot more than it hurts you.

It's not irrational hatred; it's impatient irritation over a communication barrier. I harbor no innate hatred towards people who speak Spanish or Japanese... whatever. But America was founded and colonized by the English, and the English revolted and created the United States. That's where it began. It makes sense to require that English be learned.

Yes, it's not the national language yet; but as soon as it is, your entire argument goes out the window. You even said yourself that you think it makes sense. I know you love to argue, but I'm just pointing out that you basically agree with English being the national language. So really, we're all arguing over nothing. I know that some people who have posted on this thread may sound as though they simply harbor inhibitions towards those who don't speak English; but I think the majority of it truly just stems from frustration over the inability to communicate. When you look at it from that perspective, it makes sense to have immigrants or foreigners learn English (if they're staying for an extended period of time, that is).

*applauds Necuratul*

Great posts. In Canada both French and English are our official languages, though very few Anglo-Canadians outside of Quebec and New Brunswick are actually fluent in both. When I was back in grade school I remember not liking French class, but in retrospect I wish the system had forced me to learn it; who knows it could have even proved extremely useful.

Yes, it probably would have.
 
You said a lot more than you had to say. Obviously my 'argument' goes out the window if English is ever adopted as the official language; that is a clause built into the premise of the argument itself as an argument contesting the validity of an opinion that is contradictory to fact, so the implication is, naturally, that if the fact changes, the truth value of that argument changes. I don't need that pointed out to me. :p

And just for clarification, I don't argue for the sake of arguing. I act like a dick for the sake of acting like a dick (and for my personal amusement), but, for the most part anyway, when I argue, it's because I believe strongly in something, and this is a key issue around the nation right now, so it's natural to have strong convictions regarding it. But I've already made my points (plus some pot shots, naturally), so I'm not going to waste any more time adding anything else.
 
Shut the fuck up, you're so intolerant. A lot of them are trying as hard as they can to learn English as fast as possible (and they should all do it). I agree with the judge, but ignorance just pisses me off. Try learning being so poor you have to go to another country illegally, then try learning the language. Its annoying how people expect everyone to learn the language as soon as they step on American soil, don't bitch because they haven't learned it yet. I have a shitload of Koreans and Chinese where I live and in certain parts of town I can hardly find any one who speaks English but you don't see me bitching.

There is not "rule" that you have to know English you stupid fucking schmuck. There is no official fucking language of the US, regardless of how overwhelmingly prominent one is over all others. Until English is made the OMG OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, you all need to seriously shut the fuck up and stop bitching, because knowing English is not a necessary condition of being a United States citizen, regardless of what the millions of uneducated hicks and retarded judges across the nation think. The fact that there are small, niche communities all around the country from many different backgrounds, not just Hispanic, but also many different Eastern European countries, Arab, Jewish, Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, etc., where the overwhelmingly predominant language is the language of their ancestral lands, in no way reduces their rights as citizens and certainly does not put them on a lower stature than a good, God fearing, apple pie eating, baseball playing, flag saluting, English speaking, right white and blue blood patriotic American.

Fuck off to all of you ignorant faggots.


Very well said in both posts... and they wonder why Americans are considered arrogant, rude etc.. around the world... I can speak from personal experience because I'm hispanic (born here, Costa Rican descent) and my parents never really learned english (though both know a little passable english for basic everyday shit) after being here more then 30 years... my father tries really hard to learn it but more for personal fulfillment then because he "must" learn it as ignorant people state... he loves to try to learn languages and not just english.. he also tries french and italian as well and that has passed on to me because now i have a passion for learning languages... but languages are not easy for him to grasp even though he tries hard to learn them...

What people here forget is that english is a difficult language to learn for non-speakers. Americans forget this because they speak it & forget the difficulty of it. I have various asian and Russian friends who live here in NY and they are learning english & trust me it is not easy for them... our grammar rules and pronunciation rules are just as mysterious and foreign to them as Mandarin, German, Russian etc.. are to us... Funny thing is that metalheads who are trying to learn Norwegian, German or whatever language it may be because their favorite metal heroes speak it know how difficult it is to learn those languages but yet expect english to be easy for non speakers... have to admire the irony in that..

As for Hispanics/Mexicans or whatever illegal immigrants sending money back to their native countries... a couple of points:

1. Legal immigrants do the same as well as immigrants who are now American citizens.. so whats the fucking difference?

2. Illegals (as well as legal ones) spend money here in the U.S. as well which contributes to our economy... no doubt in the billions though it is difficult to determine the exact amount...

Oh and btw Americans who live abroad do not all learn the languages of their new adopted countries or have a very difficult time learning it... i've been to nicaragua, Costa Rica and Thailand so far and the majority of expatriates do not know the languages there.. and no one demands that they learn them neither nor is forcing them to... so everyone should just chill about the issue and just leave them alone because them not knowing the language at all or well is not hurting us physically nor economically... about the most inconvenience to you is that you have to press #2 for english when you call Customer Service... let me tell you that is so time consuming and a difficult act to do :rolleyes:
 
Wow, I thought I posted in this thread yesterday...

I believe that if you come to this Country it should be mandantory for you to learn English. I think that pretty much sums up my beliefs. There should also be much stricter laws against illegal immigration to limit it. At the same time, I believe that if we were to get rid of illegal immigrants that it would cost a lot more money to get work done in jobs like construction & landscaping. Last I heard I think there were something like 16,000,000 illegal immigrants in this country & that is a lot of fucking epople. In Orlando there aren't many people in landscaping & construction that speak good English.
 
Oh and btw Americans who live abroad do not all learn the languages of their new adopted countries or have a very difficult time learning it... i've been to nicaragua, Costa Rica and Thailand so far and the majority of expatriates do not know the languages there.. and no one demands that they learn them neither nor is forcing them to... so everyone should just chill about the issue and just leave them alone because them not knowing the language at all or well is not hurting us physically nor economically... about the most inconvenience to you is that you have to press #2 for english when you call Customer Service... let me tell you that is so time consuming and a difficult act to do :rolleyes:

True, but it's even more unfair to force a culture that is primarily based around a single language to learn the secondary languages of several different ethnic groups migrating into their country. Communication is the point here, and without communication a nation does not stand united. There are mental and psychological bonds in language that help to identify a nation. Allowing immigrants to speak their native tongues is fine, but they should be able to communicate easily with English speakers in America. Likewise, this should be enforced in other countries. It isn't because, of course, English is learned as a secondary language in several foreign countries already. Forcing immigrants to learn English makes sense because it improves the cohesion of the nation. It doesn't make sense to establish several different tongues in a single nation. That would take even more time and cost more money than teaching it to new immigrants. If people want to live here, they have to be able to communicate; not just for our sake, but for theirs.
 
Wow, I thought I posted in this thread yesterday...

I believe that if you come to this Country it should be mandantory for you to learn English. I think that pretty much sums up my beliefs. There should also be much stricter laws against illegal immigration to limit it. At the same time, I believe that if we were to get rid of illegal immigrants that it would cost a lot more money to get work done in jobs like construction & landscaping. Last I heard I think there were something like 16,000,000 illegal immigrants in this country & that is a lot of fucking epople. In Orlando there aren't many people in landscaping & construction that speak good English.
This thread isn't really about immigration though I mentioned it briefly... but:

1. Your beliefs do not matter, what does matter is right and wrong. It is wrong to force anyone to do anything that they do not want to. It is much like making it "mandatory" to be one religion over another, would you like to forced to be a Christian because this country is considered a Christian nation no matter if your not one?.

2. Stricter laws on immigration? Since 9/11 in 2001 the laws are quite adequate and do not need to be any more "stricter". If you pass laws like the ones in the past such as the Emergency Quota Act of 1921, Immigration Act of 1924,Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 etc. then you are by and far being biased and discriminatory towards a minority group and i have no doubt that you or others would want "stricter Immigration laws" against people of hispanic (particularly Mexicans)and middle eastern descent. Bias towards these two immigrant groups are quite evident since 2001. Funny thing is most of you whose ancestors were italian/jewish/irish/eastern european etc. descent faced the same dilemma in the mid 1800's to early 20th century when people back then wanted "stricter Immigration laws" against these minority groups back then as with the laws I already mentioned. And let's not forget what was done to the German and Japanese immigrants during WW2 because of Pearl Harbor etc. (shades of what people want to do since 9/11). So no my friend, "Stricter immigration" laws are not needed because the current ones are already adequate. The current ones just need to be more enforced. Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

3. Yes, if illegal labor was eradicated the cost of construction, food,services (such as landscaping) etc. would skyrocket. Most of you still live with Mom/Dad and have no inclination how much this would hit someone's wallet. It already is considering the economic situation and it's not because of immigration but due to Bush, the devalue of the Dollar and other factors. If your parents are paying $30 to have your lawn cut by a illegal immigrant that could skyrocket imo up to $100 if illegal labor did not exist. Running a landscaping business costs alot of $$ and to cover "legal" labor payroll they pass the cost to the consumer which is Mom/Dad and you in the future when you live on your own. This is the same in other industries such as farm labor, construction etc.

3. As for the population of illegal immigrants being 16,000,000 (it actually varies from 12 to 18 mil), well I found this to be interesting: "Immigration is now what keeps America growing. According to the UN the typical American woman today bears 1.93 children. That is below the 2.1 "replacement" rate required to keep a population stable over time, absent immigration. The Census Bureu estimatws the US population will grow from 281 million in 2000 to 397 mil in 2050 with expected immigration, but only to 328 mil with zero immigration. "If we have zero immigration with today's low birhrates the American population would eventually begin to shrink. "

4. As for Orlando and construction/landscaping, well I would say they are there to work and not converse. They use their hands and not their mouths to cut your lawn or hammer a nail.

True, but it's even more unfair to force a culture that is primarily based around a single language to learn the secondary languages of several different ethnic groups migrating into their country. Communication is the point here, and without communication a nation does not stand united. There are mental and psychological bonds in language that help to identify a nation. Allowing immigrants to speak their native tongues is fine, but they should be able to communicate easily with English speakers in America. Likewise, this should be enforced in other countries. It isn't because, of course, English is learned as a secondary language in several foreign countries already. Forcing immigrants to learn English makes sense because it improves the cohesion of the nation. It doesn't make sense to establish several different tongues in a single nation. That would take even more time and cost more money than teaching it to new immigrants. If people want to live here, they have to be able to communicate; not just for our sake, but for theirs.

Read my above post to Shredhead other then that:

1. We are probably one of the few nations in this world who doesn't speak multiple languages excluding immigrants who live here. Kind of sad don't you think? People around the world learn english out of necessity but in those same countries they also speak more then just english and their native tongues. Says something about our own education system imo or our arrogance. Anyways there is a joke about Americans and languages but it escapes my mind right now. Perhaps someone else knows it if not I'll look it up in my language book tomorrow and post it.

Also much like Chinese, Indian and English are the most spoken languages in this world imo because of population and necessity Spanish will be the next world language and imo Americans should learn it out of necessity since Hispanics will be and are becoming the next biggest population after Chinese and Indians worldwide :Smug:

Btw the actual National language of the United States is Money. Plain and simple. Money talks and Bullshit walks as they say.
 
This thread isn't really about immigration though I mentioned it briefly... but:

1. Your beliefs do not matter, what does matter is right and wrong. It is wrong to force anyone to do anything that they do not want to. It is much like making it "mandatory" to be one religion over another, would you like to forced to be a Christian because this country is considered a Christian nation no matter if your not one?.

2. Stricter laws on immigration? Since 9/11 in 2001 the laws are quite adequate and do not need to be any more "stricter". If you pass laws like the ones in the past such as the Emergency Quota Act of 1921, Immigration Act of 1924,Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 etc. then you are by and far being biased and discriminatory towards a minority group and i have no doubt that you or others would want "stricter Immigration laws" against people of hispanic (particularly Mexicans)and middle eastern descent. Bias towards these two immigrant groups are quite evident since 2001. Funny thing is most of you whose ancestors were italian/jewish/irish/eastern european etc. descent faced the same dilemma in the mid 1800's to early 20th century when people back then wanted "stricter Immigration laws" against these minority groups back then as with the laws I already mentioned. And let's not forget what was done to the German and Japanese immigrants during WW2 because of Pearl Harbor etc. (shades of what people want to do since 9/11). So no my friend, "Stricter immigration" laws are not needed because the current ones are already adequate. The current ones just need to be more enforced. Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

3. Yes, if illegal labor was eradicated the cost of construction, food,services (such as landscaping) etc. would skyrocket. Most of you still live with Mom/Dad and have no inclination how much this would hit someone's wallet. It already is considering the economic situation and it's not because of immigration but due to Bush, the devalue of the Dollar and other factors. If your parents are paying $30 to have your lawn cut by a illegal immigrant that could skyrocket imo up to $100 if illegal labor did not exist. Running a landscaping business costs alot of $$ and to cover "legal" labor payroll they pass the cost to the consumer which is Mom/Dad and you in the future when you live on your own. This is the same in other industries such as farm labor, construction etc.

3. As for the population of illegal immigrants being 16,000,000 (it actually varies from 12 to 18 mil), well I found this to be interesting: "Immigration is now what keeps America growing. According to the UN the typical American woman today bears 1.93 children. That is below the 2.1 "replacement" rate required to keep a population stable over time, absent immigration. The Census Bureu estimatws the US population will grow from 281 million in 2000 to 397 mil in 2050 with expected immigration, but only to 328 mil with zero immigration. "If we have zero immigration with today's low birhrates the American population would eventually begin to shrink. "

4. As for Orlando and construction/landscaping, well I would say they are there to work and not converse. They use their hands and not their mouths to cut your lawn or hammer a nail.



Read my above post to Shredhead other then that:

1. We are probably one of the few nations in this world who doesn't speak multiple languages excluding immigrants who live here. Kind of sad don't you think? People around the world learn english out of necessity but in those same countries they also speak more then just english and their native tongues. Says something about our own education system imo or our arrogance. Anyways there is a joke about Americans and languages but it escapes my mind right now. Perhaps someone else knows it if not I'll look it up in my language book tomorrow and post it.

Also much like Chinese, Indian and English are the most spoken languages in this world imo because of population and necessity Spanish will be the next world language and imo Americans should learn it out of necessity since Hispanics will be and are becoming the next biggest population after Chinese and Indians worldwide :Smug:

Btw the actual National language of the United States is Money. Plain and simple. Money talks and Bullshit walks as they say.

Okay...

As for you first #1:
It isn't always wrong to force someone to do what they don't want to. That's a very broad statement, and there are plenty of situations when forcing someone to do something benefits them. However, taking your statement as true, you can't then say that we can force millions of Americans to learn multiple languages. Basically you're stuck in a rut; but we have to do something. It makes more sense to have immigrants learn English than teach Americans tons of different languages.

As for immigration policy, that's not part of my argument, so I'll skip over it; but I actually agree with you for the most part, the immigration policy needs to be better enforced.

Now, as for your second #1:
It doesn't matter whether or not Americans only learn one primary language, that is the language of this country. That's not really the argument; the argument is whether it would make more sense to force immigrants to learn English or to force Americans to learn all the languages of immigrants who come to America. When you look at it that way, it would probably be more efficient to have English classes be provided for immigrants rather than instituting multiple programs in schools all over America so that Americans could learn several different languages.

And money's a universal language. It can "talk" in any country.
 
Einherjar, you are misrepresenting the argument by posing it in such an absurdly imbalanced manner. Firstly, English is not the language of the United States, despite vehement protestations to the contrary. Secondly, there is no basis for your assumed threat that the American citizen body must learn every single language of every immigrant in America that doesn't speak English in order to accommodate them. I don't see why you would be siphoning the debate into such a dilution unless your intention was simply to paint it absurd, but what your siphon produces is not a more concise argument, but rather a strawman. Of course there is no obligation for anybody in the country to learn any specific language whatsoever, and it's certainly not the case that there is some threat posed by immigrants who do not speak English which would result in the forced education of the American citizen body in various foreign languages. The issue of "force" on either side of the spectrum is not even a present, relevant factor.
 
Einherjar, you are misrepresenting the argument by posing it in such an absurdly imbalanced manner. Firstly, English is not the language of the United States, despite vehement protestations to the contrary. Secondly, there is no basis for your assumed threat that the American citizen body must learn every single language of every immigrant in America that doesn't speak English in order to accommodate them. I don't see why you would be siphoning the debate into such a dilution unless your intention was simply to paint it absurd, but what your siphon produces is not a more concise argument, but rather a strawman. Of course there is no obligation for anybody in the country to learn any specific language whatsoever, and it's certainly not the case that there is some threat posed by immigrants who do not speak English which would result in the forced education of the American citizen body in various foreign languages. The issue of "force" on either side of the spectrum is not even a present, relevant factor.

Then tell that to Unfaithfully Metalhead, because he's the one who said that it's wrong to "force anyone to do something he or she doesn't want to."

Hmmm, maybe I'm not speaking in enough of a technically-involved tongue for you to understand me. It seems we're witnessing the very problem of a language barrier right here!

English is not the official language of the nation, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to dismiss this matter. My point for supporting the use of a common language doesn't stem from some sense of nationalistic pride (although language has a part to play in that), but from a desire to see improved communication and better opportunities for immigrants in this country. Learning English is a major advantage and helps to provide the opportunities and abilities to progress. I don't think English has to be declared the national language for people to realize that learning it would be beneficial to immigrants and citizens.

Secondly, if we agree that it would be better if everyone spoke a common language, then it certainly presents to us the "threat" (as you put it) of learning a new language. You make it sound much more dangerous than I intended. I merely think that it would be unfair and inefficient to teach Americans multiple new languages. It makes more sense to teach English to incoming immigrants.