Legalize All Drugs? Would It Work?

[HamburgerBoy]

Nobody's saying sell heroin in a liquor store, but if you get caught with heroin, you shouldn't have to serve as much jail time as a rapist. That is retarded.

Except in "three strikes" scenarios, people possessing drugs aren't going to serve anywhere near as long as rapists. That's just some meme made up a long time ago that won't die. I think most long drug sentences are due to drug dealing rather than simple possession anyways, except maybe in Texas and a few other states.

 

[Nephilim96]

I was exaggerating, possession of a schedule I substance is only worth a year or two in prison IIRC, but I don't think you should receive any jail time.

 

[Nephilim96]

Legality is definitely not going to improve the lives of junkies. You'd make it even easier for them to get their fix. And now the government says it's ok! There's no shame in them doing the drugs they crave. The drugs that are destroying them. Now they don't have to hit rock bottom because there's all these support systems in place. They can just go on fucking up indefinitely.
.

So the only thing keeping these people away from drugs is the fact that it's illegal/shameful, not that it's unhealthy?

 

[Matt]

Legalizing heroin probably won't cause a spike in heroin use, just as criminalizing something won't stop people from doing it. I think there has to be some kind of middle ground though. Legalize a lot of things that are less harmful, and shift the focus from criminalization to recovery while still keeping things like meth and heroin technically illegal.

 

[Baroque]

So the only thing keeping these people away from drugs is the fact that it's illegal/shameful, not that it's unhealthy?

That's not what I said at all and you know it.

I'm talking about people who were already addicts, who are now staying off of drugs because drugs are illegal, shameful and unhealthy. Making drugs legal would be making drugs less shameful also, and so they lose 2 of the 3 reasons they were staying off of drugs. It's like inviting them back to the drug world. I don't want to see my family member even tempted like that since they already talk about how it's a constant battle. If drugs became legal they Would most likely relapse and that would be terrible for the family especially since this person now has a child to take care of as well.

 

[Baroque]

Legalizing heroin probably won't cause a spike in heroin use, just as criminalizing something won't stop people from doing it.

I think the fact that it is illegal does deter some people from doing it. It's true some/many people will do it regardless. But there are also lawful people who would only do it if it became legal.

I think there has to be some kind of middle ground though. Legalize a lot of things that are less harmful, and shift the focus from criminalization to recovery while still keeping things like meth and heroin technically illegal.

Something like that I would be more ok with. Legalize stuff like weed and shrooms fine, I don't care. Legalizing heroin though that's a terrible idea and a very touchy subject for me personally.

 

[Nephilim96]

That's not what I said at all and you know it.

I'm talking about people who were already addicts, who are now staying off of drugs because drugs are illegal, shameful and unhealthy. Making drugs legal would be making drugs less shameful also, and so they lose 2 of the 3 reasons they were staying off of drugs. It's like inviting them back to the drug world. I don't want to see my family member even tempted like that since they already talk about how it's a constant battle. If drugs became legal they Would most likely relapse and that would be terrible for the family especially since this person now has a child to take care of as well.

If they care about being a law-abiding citizen as much or more than they care about their personal well being, then their priorities are ass backwards. That person should continue to stay away from drugs because it's unhealthy, not just because it's the right thing to do from a legal standpoint.

and fyi, I wouldn't want to see heroin, meth, and coke legalized like I want to see weed and psychedelics legalized, I just want it decriminalized, like in Portugal, where hard drug use has actually gone down since 2001.

 

[SentinelSlain]

that's why you let people do drugs all they want, and just fucking let them die when they OD, simple as that

If the drugs weren't cheap enough to consume whilst on living on welfare they would still fuel crime.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

because it's unhealthy, not just because it's the right thing to do from a legal standpoint.

.

 

[Baroque]

and fyi, I wouldn't want to see heroin, meth, and coke legalized like I want to see weed and psychedelics legalized, I just want it decriminalized, like in Portugal, where hard drug use has actually gone down since 2001.

Now that's different you see. Sure, a drug user should not serve jail time, or at least only for repeat offenses. Drug dealers however Should serve jail time I believe because their business goal is to get more people addicted, and that obviously should not be an acceptable business practice.

Users who are ready to quit need at least these 3 things: 1) Sobriety and 2) To be removed from their peer users/dealers/negative influences and 3) positive encouragement/support that quitting is the right decision. Putting them in jail is not necessarily giving them any of these things, and I never said jail for users was the answer.

Enforced rehab might be even worse than jail for users though. Now you put a bunch of people who are rebelling against society together, who like to use drugs and aren't ready to quit yet in the same space and they're just going to influence each other to relapse. Rehab is there for when users are ready to quit on their own, it can't be forced.

I don't know what the solution is but neither of those seem right. Neither does legalization which is what this thread is about. If you're going to argue decriminalization that probably deserves its own thread. I am arguing strictly against legalization and the 'letting them die' philosophy as UA stated it in the first post.

 

[UltimateApathy]

A lot of the arguments here seem to focus upon the concept that anyone who tries drugs will inevitably become a helpless addict who ends up ruining his/her life. In the real world, many, MANY people who do drugs simply view it as a nice way to, say, spend a Saturday evening, and don't let this bit of fun ultimately ruin their entire lives. This paranoia is retarded as fuck: as I mentioned earlier, people can get addicted to pretty much anything, and trying to ban it all is also as retarded as fuck - many people actually get addicted to sex, sounds like a viable candidate for a Federal ban, aye???

I also see some of the "productivity" bullshit rearing its ugly head here. If a person wants to spend his whole day on the sofa watching TV being "unproductive" then the government has no right to try to force him to do otherwise, unless the titles of "nanny" or "babysitter" seem to be appropriate government roles to you, in which case Communist North Korea "choose-this-one-specific-hairstyle" governmental style would no doubt appeal to you.

And as to the people mentioning losing family members to drugs, I must say that I am very sorry to hear about your loss, but there are a couple of things to consider here:

A) If drugs were in fact regulated by the government, the chances of OD'ing on pretty much any non-cut-with-rat-poison drugs that you know the exact dosage of would be far, FAR more difficult and unlikely.

B) Heartless as it might seem to say, anyone who still dies from a drug OD under these tightly-regulated circumstances would, as I mentioned earlier, has to be seen as a casualty of natural section. You do believe in Darwinism, right?

 

[Baroque]

That person should continue to stay away from drugs because it's unhealthy, not just because it's the right thing to do from a legal standpoint.

Way to ignore what I actually said Once Again. I never said "just because it's the right thing to do". I said it was the careful combination of All 3 of those factors.

 

[Nephilim96]

I'm not ignoring you, you're just not getting my point.

 

[Baroque]

A lot of the arguments here seem to focus upon the concept that anyone who tries drugs will inevitably become a helpless addict who ends up ruining his/her life. In the real world, many, MANY people who do drugs simply view it as a nice way to, say, spend a Saturday evening, and don't let this bit of fun ultimately ruin their entire lives. This paranoia is retarded as fuck: as I mentioned earlier, people can get addicted to pretty much anything, and trying to ban it all is also as retarded as fuck - many people actually get addicted to sex, sounds like a viable candidate for a Federal ban, aye???

Do you even believe what you just wrote or are you just trolling? Obviously addiction to some things is worse than addiction to others. Obviously there are different types of addiction. Obviously sex is necessary for reproduction of the species while heroin is not...

I also see some of the "productivity" bullshit rearing its ugly head here. If a person wants to spend his whole day on the sofa watching TV being "unproductive" then the government has no right to try to force him to do otherwise, unless the titles of "nanny" or "babysitter" seem to be appropriate government roles to you, in which case Communist North Korea "choose-this-one-specific-hairstyle" governmental style would no doubt appeal to you.

Straw man argument.

And as to the people mentioning losing family members to drugs, I must say that I am very sorry to hear about your loss, but there are a couple of things to consider here:

A) If drugs were in fact regulated by the government, the chances of OD'ing on pretty much any non-cut-with-rat-poison drugs that you know the exact dosage of would be far, FAR more difficult and unlikely.

Incorrect. You can OD on the purest cleanest drugs just as easily as you can on drugs with fillers. Maybe more easily.

B) Heartless as it might seem to say, anyone who still died from a drug OD under these tightly-regulated circumstances would, as I mentioned earlier, has to be seen as a casualty of natural section. You do believe in Darwinism, right?

Yeah because a person just says "hey i'm going to try heroin today" because they're stupid and deserve to die. Nope. They fall in with the wrong crowd. They're depressed. They lose a job and have to move in with druggie friends. They're in an abusive relationship. There are countless different reasons people turn to drugs and very few of them have anything to do with the quality of their genetics. Once rehabilitated many can function as normal human beings who do Not deserve to die.

 

[Baroque]

I'm not ignoring you, you're just not getting my point.

Well you're not getting mine either because you keep phrasing it incorrectly.

 

[UltimateApathy]

Not fair on the tax payers?


Decriminalization and legalization haven't been shown to lead to increased use (which makes sense, because people will take drugs whatever their legality).

The costs of fighting a 'war on drugs' outweigh the costs of not fighting it.


Not treating people with addictions ends up costing more than treating them.

Not taxing the legal sale of drugs 'costs' more than taxing the legal sale of drugs.

Incarcerating people for the possession of drugs, which in many cases (weed, lsd, mushrooms, etc) are not going to cause harm to others, costs more than not incarcerating them.

Letting the profits of drugs sales, which you'll never be able to stop, go to criminals, means more powerful criminal gangs, which cost money to deal with.

The costs of educating people, which should be happening regardless of the legality of drugs, are massively outweighed by the costs of not educating people.



The arguments about the 'costs' of legalization and decriminalization are so fucking stupid. The 'I DON'T LIKE DRUGS SO NO ONE SHOULD DO DRUGS' brigade are far more tolerable than those that spout this bullshit.





1) Bullshit. There are plenty of people that have, or have lost, addict friends and family members that campaign for more sensible drug laws.

2) The societal repercussions, which are actually lessened by decriminalization/legalization?


Just look at the fucking facts. Jeez.

This brother preaches the truth. If it weren't for the utterly-retarded "War On Drugs" bullshit the U.S. would no doubt have been slash several trillion off their multi-trillion national debt through the lack of unreasonably lengthy (and expensive) prison sentences for meaningless bullshit "drug" crimes, and the substantial profits from drug legalization and regulation, and they also wouldn't be on the verge of selling our world to the nightmarish totalitarian clusterfuck that is China. It all inevitably reminds me of this song:




They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison

Following the rights movement
You clamped on with your iron fists
Drugs became conveniently
Available for all the kids

Following the rights movement
You clamped on with your iron fists
Drugs became conveniently
Available for all the kids

I buy my crack, my smack, my bitch right here in Hollywood
(nearly 2 million Americans are incarcerated in the prison system, prison system of the US)
(They're trying to build a prison)

They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison
(for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system
(for you and me)

Minor drug offenders fill your prisons you don't even flinch
All our taxes paying for your wars against the new non-rich
Minor drug offenders fill your prisons you don't even flinch
All our taxes paying for your wars against the new non-rich

I buy my crack, my smack, my bitch right here in Hollywood
(the percentage of Americans in the prison system, prison system, has doubled since 1985)
(They're trying to build a prison)

They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison
(for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system
For you and I, for you and I, for you and I.

They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison for you and me

Oh, baby, you and me.

All research and successful drug policy show that treatment should be increased
And law enforcement decreased while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences
All research and successful drug policy show that treatment should be increased
And law enforcement decreased while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences

Utilising drugs to pay for secret wars around the world
Drugs are now your global policy, now you police the globe

I buy my crack, my smack, my bitch right here in Hollywood
Drug money is used to rig elections and train brutal corporate sponsored dictators around the world
(They're trying to build a prison)

They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison
(for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system
(for you and me)

For you and I, for you and I, for you and I, for you and I

They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison
They're trying to build a prison for you and me

Oh, baby, you and me

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I wouldn't want to see heroin, meth, and coke legalized ... I just want it decriminalized

that's how i feel about marijauna. No reason anyone should be in jail or catch a case for having a little weed on them.

-----------------

I've lost way too many friends and relatives by overdose to even start a conversation with anyone that thinks hard drugs should be legalized. First one was when i was 8 and my best friends brother OD's on heroin(his dad also died from heroin just a few years later when nodded off on the wheel) and the most recent one was in january when one of my co-workers wives OD'd on meth.

I have a feeling that most people who want all that stuff legalized have never tried or even been around those drugs to see the impact they can have on society. I'm sure it's pretty easy for someone who lives in butt-fuck timbaktoo to have such opinions. But please, try going to skid row here in downtown LA and telling yourself that.

There is no reasons why anyone slanging crack, heroin, psychedelics like sherm and pcp shouldnt be doing time if they get caught. Most of the guys that get busted for slanging will tell you the same thing ... man up, you do the crime, you do the time.

Countries that have stricter drug policies have far less drug addicts and drug related crimes. If im not mistaken, isnt the US at the top of the list as far as drug addicts go?

A) If drugs were in fact regulated by the government, the chances of OD'ing on pretty much any non-cut-with-rat-poison drugs that you know the exact dosage of would be far, FAR more difficult and unlikely.

What the hell are you talking about, do you know how easily someone can OD off of pure coke or heroin?

 

[UltimateApathy]

Do you even believe what you just wrote or are you just trolling? Obviously addiction to some things is worse than addiction to others. Obviously there are different types of addiction. Obviously sex is necessary for reproduction of the species while heroin is not...




Straw man argument.



Incorrect. You can OD on the purest cleanest drugs just as easily as you can on drugs with fillers. Maybe more easily.



Yeah because a person just says "hey i'm going to try heroin today" because they're stupid and deserve to die. Nope. They fall in with the wrong crowd. They're depressed. They lose a job and have to move in with druggie friends. They're in an abusive relationship. There are countless different reasons people turn to drugs and very few of them have anything to do with the quality of their genetics. Once rehabilitated many can function as normal human beings who do Not deserve to die.

And here we see more bountiful prude-mobile bullshit. What gives the government the right to decide which activities are "too addictive" for people to engage in? Where do you draw the line? Both ethics and criminology tend to see an activity as "wrong" when it harms others (not oneself) in some way, and (for example) sitting in a chair or lying on a bed enjoying an acid trip (which, according to scientists who have studied it, is the closest thing an atheist can have to "religious experience") simply doesn't fit into those categories in any way, shape, or form. And your argument of "people can overdose on anything" seems to contradict pretty much any logic your argument might have had going for it - you know people can die from drinking too much water, right? http://www.cracked.com/article_16760_6-people-who-died-in-order-to-prove-retarded-point.html (number 2)

 

[UltimateApathy]

5 Illegal Drugs With Surprisingly Wholesome Medical Uses:

#5. Cocaine Treats Wounds on Children
#4. LSD Can Cure Alcoholism
#3. Heroin Helps Women in Labor (Oh, and Heroin Addicts)
#2. MDMA (Ecstasy) Can Cure PTSD
#1. Methamphetamine Helps ADHD and Obesity

http://www.cracked.com/article_20023_5-illegal-drugs-with-surprisingly-wholesome-medical-uses.html

 

[UltimateApathy]

5 Myths About Illegal Drugs You Probably Believe

#5. LSD Makes You Insane
#4. Natural Drugs Aren't as Bad for You
#3. PCP Turns Normal People Violent ... and Grants Superhuman Strength!
#2. "Crack Babies" Exist
#1. The War on Drugs Lowered Drug Use Rates

http://www.cracked.com/article_20561_5-myths-about-illegal-drugs-you-probably-believe.html