Let's talk Bergstrand

[Ermz]

Okay, so for the past few months - in fact ever since a ton of people named 'Stabbing the Drama' as their fave metal production - I've been on a huge Daniel Bergstrand kick.

In just about every one of his productions I don't like the individual elements at all, but when it all comes together, the mixes just about crap on anything that exists in the metal scene. There is this overall fatness and more 'organic' quality than what I'm used to hearing from the standard 'tick tock' metal mainstream.

Above all, his bass always seems to have this sub-low quality, which I find is amazing. It creates a certain clarity in the midbass region, which can be used for other information, while the bass guitar is kept out of the way.

Do any of you know how to achieve that sort of low-end? Simple manipulation of the DI track with EQ, comp & limiting, or are we starting to look at stuff like sequencers running sub bass lines, parallel compression etc.?

 

[JBroll]

I don't, but I notice the same thing... and I think Behemoth's 'Satanica' is the perfect example of having every single individual element sound like ass through a PG58 but come together perfectly in the mix.

Jeff

 

[Metaltastic]

Ugghh, he did Satanica? That is NOT what I would call a particularly exemplary mix, to me it just sounds like an average low- to mid-budget black metal album. All I can think of that he's done (that I've listened to) are "Stabbing," "Demigod," and "Reroute/Soundtrack," and of those, I think Demigod is the most typical production-wise (which is a good thing, I think the sounds of the other albums I mentioned all fit for them, but not for Behemoth). However, I would never call any of those "organic," to me they sound quite the contrary, very processed and almost industrial in the case of In Flames. I really dig 'em, but if I want organic, I'll listen to anything by mah boy Jens

 

[JBroll]

No, I don't think so - I was just putting that up as an example of that same phenomenon.

EDIT: Looking at the booklet, it says that Nergal uses 'Mesa Bogie and Pevey amps' and mixed the album 'in cooperation with M. A.'... whoever the balls M. A. is.

Jeff

 

[Ermz]

I think there's something very natural sounding about Demigod, even though the drums are of course sampled off their tits. There's something about his use of room mics on that one rather than verb that really does it for me. The vocal sound on that one is unreal. Destroy Erase Improve is relatively 'natural' sounding compared to Meshuggah's later efforts.

I do dig Jens' way of doing things a more organic way, but all the same none of his mixes really do it for me as a whole. TGCD is the best work of his I have & it's alright, but overall still too muddy. I think between 'Demigod' and 'Stabbing the Drama', Danne manages to annihilate anything any other metal producer has done (unless I've missed some really landmark albums). From a purely technical perspective, those two albums are astounding.

 

[NickL]

I like his bass tone but I wouldn't say it's organic sounding. It sounds like its way way down at 50, maybe even 40 Hz and a bass amp just isn't going to give you a solid tone way down there. There's definitely some DI work going on, other than that I dunno.

 

[Torniojaws]

EDIT: Looking at the booklet, it says that Nergal uses 'Mesa Bogie and Pevey amps' and mixed the album 'in cooperation with M. A.'... whoever the balls M. A. is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.A._Numminen

 

[Rupturemetal]

#1 on Demigod, love the production. Everything sits so well, using it for a reference right now

 

[JBroll]

You know, I'm not exactly from Finland, last I checked... and on top of that I see no 'Behemoth' or 'Satanica' on that page, so for all I know it could be one of the other forty-two fucktillion other people with an 'm' and an 'a' in their name, so I can't say I'd jump right to that one. But if you're sure that's him, well... one less mystery out there...

Jeff

 

[Deadstar]

I've noticed the same on last Katatonia and dunno who mixed Unearth (hope this misterious guy will give us some info) but the low-end of the March is something crazy. Correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like the bass is kickin in the subs and somewhere between 80-90hz and leaves place for guitars and snare around 120-200, while kick lows are near 70hz

 

[abyssofdreams]

I'm with you here Ermin, actually, currently I'm obsessed with his sound.
I'm hunting the Come Clarity tone, just for the sake of knowing what's going on there.

What I've observed so far:
The guitars are limited and compressed to hell and back and have almost NO (muddy) low-end but a lot of highend instead, especially 7k upwards.
When I try to reproduce this guitarsound it sounds so fucking thin and lame when soloed but once the bass kicks in it is soooo huge together!

Actually the bass is pretty easy to reproduce EQ-wise, I just take the DI, limit/compress to hell and run some grainy distortion with it. EQ-wise I barely touch it, just some minor tweaks but especially NO (!!!) HP/LP filters or anything. Again, it sounds like shit soloed but perfectly fills the gap in the guitars in the mix.

Oddly enough, the way the guitars/bass are mixed there's still a lot of ambience on the drums that shine through, easily done with the Slate stuff.
I'm still tweaking but will post a mix once I think it's showable

Btw, the Soilwork-bass is smoother/more round/less grainly than the Come Clarity one and the Soilwork mix is cleaner, less muddy than In Flames, on the other hand Come Clarity has this extra kick punch that just rolls over you like a huge tank!

 

[Seizure.]

Funny to suddenly see alot people liking and hunting for a more organic production/sound haha

 

[James Murphy]

I've noticed the same on last Katatonia and dunno who mixed Unearth (hope this misterious guy will give us some info) but the low-end of the March is something crazy. Correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like the bass is kickin in the subs and somewhere between 80-90hz and leaves place for guitars and snare around 120-200, while kick lows are near 70hz

sorry if you were joking/being facetious ... hard to tell in print. but just in case, and for anyone that actually doesn't know, Andy mixed the new Unearth, "The March".

 

[Morgan C]

I'm hunting the Come Clarity tone, just for the sake of knowing what's going on there.............

I downloaded the "Take This Life" multitrack which has the bass, guitar and vocals/drums separated..strange tracks indeed. Can't say I like Come Clarity, but it works and I like..hard to put this into words.. how each element occupies the whole mix. I don't like mixes that are too controlled - bass goes here, and no higher than 6kHz, or something like that. Everything goes everywhere and it makes for a really.. good? mix.

If you haven't heard the multi-track, I can PM you the link. I don't think a lot of the room got into the drum track though.. the snare sounds incredibly small and the kick is a typewriter.

 

[JBroll]

I'm interested, but I do have to wonder what Bergstrand thinks of that kind of thing before I ask. I actually liked a lot of Come Clarity...

Jeff

 

[Deadstar]

sorry if you were joking/being facetious ... hard to tell in print. but just in case, and for anyone that actually doesn't know, Andy mixed the new Unearth, "The March".

joking waiting for andy

 

[Deadstar]

I'm with you here Ermin, actually, currently I'm obsessed with his sound.
I'm hunting the Come Clarity tone, just for the sake of knowing what's going on there.

What I've observed so far:
The guitars are limited and compressed to hell and back and have almost NO (muddy) low-end but a lot of highend instead, especially 7k upwards.
When I try to reproduce this guitarsound it sounds so fucking thin and lame when soloed but once the bass kicks in it is soooo huge together!

Actually the bass is pretty easy to reproduce EQ-wise, I just take the DI, limit/compress to hell and run some grainy distortion with it. EQ-wise I barely touch it, just some minor tweaks but especially NO (!!!) HP/LP filters or anything. Again, it sounds like shit soloed but perfectly fills the gap in the guitars in the mix.

+1111

 

[abyssofdreams]

I don't think a lot of the room got into the drum track though.. the snare sounds incredibly small and the kick is a typewriter.

Than you listen to some other record than me. Maybe the multitrack mix isn't what is actually on the album? E.g. without post-processing and stuff? Dunno.

Anyhow, the kick is HUGE, not a typewriter sound at all. The ultratight Devildriver kick Andy mixed is closer to a typewriter sound for me which, oc works for that record anyways. And the snare isn't small? It's just very airy, again some nice 8k boost in there. Agreed, it's fairly low in the mix but cuts through quite nicely nonetheless and punches!

 

[The-Zeronaut]

i have wet dreams with the vocal production of demigod...
seriously...

 

[Ermz]

i have wet dreams with the vocal production of demigod...
seriously...

+1 with ya there man. When A/Bing directly to Soilwork it can give the impression that Demigod is slightly smaller and muddier, but when you put it in context with the band, the style of playing and all of that, you just see how it works. Unreal production. Been spinning this one non-stop for a month, and it has made its way onto my main reference CD, along with Soilwork (which contains the likes of Nickelback, Breaking Benjamin, Bohren und der Club of Gore, Dave Weckl, Katatonia, Scar Symmetry, Arch Enemy etc.

@abyssofdreams: Thanks for those thoughts!