Lockerbie bomber allowed to die at home

Ooo alien machines, i like your line of thought.

This line of thought ends with the Reapers returning to cleanse the galaxy of organic life.

I think a caveman would be n equally as effective metaphor. They lived just like the wild animals of today. Fight or flight, only the strong survive. All instinct, no emotion.

Which, if you think about it, is really fucking scary. I wouldn't have made it long in a primal age. It'd be like the absolute worst of modern humans succeeding. Big, strong, mean individuals with no remorse for killing ruling the lands.

But really it was the individuals with enough ability to work together to form small communities that won out over the powerful lone alpha males. With the advent of society over anarchy as the most successful survival model, I think we can see our justice system evolve from "punish the transgressor" to "protect the interests of the community."
 
But really it was the individuals with enough ability to work together to form small communities that won out over the powerful lone alpha males. With the advent of society over anarchy as the most successful survival model, I think we can see our justice system evolve from "punish the transgressor" to "protect the interests of the community."

Definitely true, but many times protecting the community's interests means permanently removing a perpetrator from all society, frequently that means death.
 
I am as liberal as they come, but I sincerely support the death penalty. Mad dogs are put to sleep all the time, yet are less of a social threat than a serial killer or someone who bombs planes. Why do we make this exception for humans? (rhetorical question, I know why). Not to mention the money spent to keep these dysfunctional "mad dogs" alive for a life sentence.
 
But really it was the individuals with enough ability to work together to form small communities that won out over the powerful lone alpha males. With the advent of society over anarchy as the most successful survival model, I think we can see our justice system evolve from "punish the transgressor" to "protect the interests of the community."

And thus begins the cycle that inevitably leads humans to the point we're at today.
 
Great thread.

To weigh in on the philosophical points: I'm with Lord Foul, insomuch as I think punishment serves almost no purpose, further to that I also think capitol punishment smacks of revenge, and I believe it has no place in the justice system - we claim not to be mere animals, but as Plato put it, revenge is not justice, it's animalistic and essentially senseless. I don't claim to be above it, but I think the role of the victim's family in any trial should be be absolutely nil.

In that respect, I couldn't care less what the American's are saying about this, and although I can certainly understand the outrage certain family members are feeling - I don't hold to the same ideals. An eye for an eye is not justice in any sense to me. Given that he's terminally ill, it's a moot point where he's allowed to die. Perhaps sending him back to Libya is a touch soft (and the reception he's recieved is in bad taste), but the fact remains that he'll be dead soon.

Finally, it's worth raising the point that there are murmurs that the new appeal he was lodging would ultimately be won (i.e. he did not blow up the plane), given new evidence that would be presented proving his innocence. To avoid any possibility of his incarceration being shown to be a complete sham, and his conviction incorrect, it was decided to let him free rather than face the embarrassment of his conviction being overturned.

Also, I'd like to add, just for some context, I lived outside of a town called Dumfries in Scotland when this happened, which is only a matter of 10 miles or so from Lockerbie. My uncle lived there with his family and I have friends form there. I certainly know how the bombing affected people.
 
To weigh in on the philosophical points: I'm with Lord Foul, insomuch as I think punishment serves almost no purpose
Agreed. It's like killers who go on a shooting spree or commit other completely deranged acts - there is no punishing these people, and there is no deterring others of their kind with punishment. You can punish or deter rational criminals, who weigh the pros and cons of their actions before attempting it, but you cannot deter cyclothymics or other "irrational killers". They'll kill no matter how terrible the punishment that awaits them.

further to that I also think capitol punishment smacks of revenge
It does, but not always. Capital punishment to remove a dangerous, non-rehabilitable and non-redeemable member of society is, in itself, not an act of revenge, or even punishment - it's simply protecting society from one of its members (and at a very low cost, I might add).

I don't claim to be above it, but I think the role of the victim's family in any trial should be be absolutely nil.
As heartless as that will sound to some, I agree 100%. Same for "public opinion". I remember the case of Kim De Gelder, a teenager who raided a nursery, killed several babies and their nurse, and then rode off on his bike like nothing had happened. Public outcry demanded that he be imprisoned for life, and even tortured and killed! "Because the bastard deserved to die in the cruelest way possible". No one seems to realize the point I made above: psychopathic killers cannot be punished, because they learn nothing from it, and deterring future psychopaths is useless also.




Perhaps sending him back to Libya is a touch soft (and the reception he's recieved is in bad taste)
Absolutely. It sends out a completely wrong signal that he receives a state welcome and even an audience with Khadafi, like he was some kind of national hero. I find his reception in Libya far more disgraceful than his release.
 
I'm just against the death penalty in any shape or form. I can certainly sympathise with people sometimes when they call for it, but I'd never support it.
 
i always find myself agreeing with lord foul and derek in 'serious' threads.

im pretty sure its only partially because of their rugged good looks.
 
I'm inclined to disagree this time, but that's just because I'm very vengeful...probably because I go out of my way to not step on people's toes, offend them, or cause any sort of strife or inconvenience in their lives. When I am not shown the same consideration I retaliate strongly and swiftly. It's probably some sort of complex or something along the lines of intolerance of bad human behavior, but that's just me.

I hold the same opinion of people who harm other people for no good reason such as political gain or religious zeal.

That said, I am somewhat hesitant and I keep an open mind, especially with the whole lack of compelling evidence thing. Could be just a coincidence that he was a former Libyan Intelligence Officer and that his clothes were found wrapped around the bomb. Then again, it might not be. That's where the open mind comes in.