Lord of the Rings Discussion Thread

I've been toying with the idea of putting money into The Strategy Battle Game, I've seen it at our local tabletop haunt. Never see anyone playing though. It seems a lot cheaper than 40k overall, with hella less pieces, so I'm thinkin everyone who won't do Warhammer due to it being fuckin expensive might give that a try.

Anyone ever play? Cool? System okay?
 
Also about Tom Bombadil:

http://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

tl;dr version: Tom Bombadil is a liar and his forest is the most dangerous place in Middle Earth. He is an evil older than Sauron and Morgoth and is biding his time before his darkness spreads.

The reason the hobbits have never met Bombadil is because they only venture into the very fringes of the Old Forest. Likewise, the fact that his home is less than twenty miles from the road to the Grey Havens is irrelevant; if you've ever walked a long distance on foot, you know that twenty miles is nothing to sneeze at in a straight line. Draw a circle with a twenty mile radius from the road and you have over 1200 square miles of territory; it's not surprising that the elves wouldn't have run across him, especially since he doesn't like to be found. This is all splitting hairs though, because it's clear that some elves know of him. They don't know much about him, but they do have a name for him.

The idea that he's lying about how he knew the hobbits were coming is not supported by the story. Tom is at one with the forest; he certainly could have heard the rumor of their passing from the trees. Likewise, it's not hard to imagine that Tom does talk to Farmer Maggott from time to time. Maggott is taciturn and grim; not the type to go tell stories around the Shire about his weird mystical friend in the Old Forest. Also, hobbits are plain, practical folk, likely to dismiss such outlandish tales (see their reactions in the early part of Fellowship to stories of giants).

I really don't see why you think the Old Forest is the second-most dangerous place in Middle-Earth. It's probably not even the tenth most dangerous of the small subset of places that Tolkien actually described. It's an uncanny, unwelcoming place, sure. Is it more dangerous than the Paths of the Dead, which only one living man may walk and survive? Is it more dangerous than Barad-Dur, home of Sauron, or Cirith Ungol, home of the deadliest of Ungoliant's spawn? More dangerous than Mirkwood, where stepping off the paths without the protection of Thranduil's wood-elves is nearly a death sentence? More dangerous than Dagorlad, where will-o-wisps lead travellers astray to drown in the ghost-haunted swamps? Furthermore, the Barrow-Downs may be in some sense part of Tom's "country", but as he and Goldberry make clear, Tom does not control his country. Rather, he is an integrated part of it. It would not be his style to purge the countryside of all evil simply because he could. He seems to be some sort of nature spirit, content to let be what already is, unless urgent need and his responsibilities as a host take precedence.

I think you really got confused when you said that all of the trees in the Old Forest are huorns. I don't think that's true at all; are you confusing the Old Forest with Fangorn? Even in Fangorn we don't have a clear indication that ALL of the trees are huorns. Old Man Willow seems to be a kind of huorn, or something related to them, but nowhere are we given an indication that the trees of the foreboding Old Forest are anything more than trees that resent the presence of intruders. Don't forget that Tolkien had a deep reverence for trees, and considered them living creatures that could feel pain, and that he could commune with.

You theorize that Bombadil was in Middle-Earth "before Morgoth set foot there." This is impossible because Morgoth (then known as Melkor) went to Arda as soon as it was created. You theorize that Bombadil was "ruler of the darkness" before Morgoth -- since Morgoth created the darkness by throwing down the Two Lamps, I don't see how that's possible.

I think a lot of the problem people have with Tom Bombadil is that he is deliberately presented as a mystery. He doesn't fit neatly into our categories of good and evil. It's fun to speculate about who or what he might be, but I don't think even Tolkien knew. And honestly, I think you've strayed very far from what he intended or what is supportable in the text with this guess.

This reply in the comments section sums it up for me. While I like the idea that Tom is evil and that is forest is 'one of the most dangerous places in Middle Earth', I don't think there is enough evidence to support it. There's definitely something sketchy about him though.
 
Given that he isn't fully "fleshed out", this exegesis is more thorough than most in capturing the full situation rather than hanging on a contingent descriptions of Bombadil himself.
 
Shit yoda. Now I am dreaming of a day when some lost Tolkien journals are discovered, explaining Tom Bombadil. Sort of like how I fantasize about a fully-realized Beethoven's 10th being discovered.
 
There's also no way that his forest is more dangerous than Minas Morgul, Barad-dur, Cirith Ungol, etc. Unless every tree is an evil ent or something.
 
Why do people think Cirith Ungol is so damn dangerous? In the movie, Gandalf even acts concerned when he finds out that Frodo and Sam took that path. Like....seriously? A big spider is more dangerous than knocking on the fucking Black Gate? What were the hobbits supposed to do?
 
I'm not saying Shelob is a puss, but I don't find it terribly hard to believe that an entire evil forest could present more dangers than a spider that two hobbits dealt with WITHOUT the help of Tom Bombadil.
 
Shelob is probably a Maiar, an incredibly formidable opponent. Besides, that whole path is traveled by Mordor orcs.
 
She's an offspring of Ungoliant, who most definitely was a Maiar.

And Frodo and Sam are very small, plus they had magical elven cloaks that could shield them. I don't think it would have been more or less difficult than taking Cirith Ungol. What they should have done is not dicked around for 17 years after Bilbo gave Frodo the ring and immediately started on a journey around fucking Mordor, coming in through the east, unawares.
 
So something I never quite understood, perhaps the movies fucked it up for me. Zirakzigil is apparently on the outside of the Misty Mountains? Because in the scene where Gandalf kills the balrog, it is snowing and raining. If is outside then, how the fuck did they get out there? They both fall a long way down. I don't understand the logistics of how that happened.
 
What the movie shows is Gandalf and the Balrog falling down Khazad Dum, hitting the lake in the bottom of the mountain. At the bottom lies The Endless Stair, which climbs all the way back up to the peak of the mountain. What the movie shows is the Battle at the Peak where Gandalf did actually kill the Balrog. Zirakzigil is just the dwarven name of the mountain.
 
Oh okay, gotcha. Also, Zirakzigil is the name for the summit/peak where they fought. At least according the internet.
 
Well considering there is an actual structure there, it would make sense to have a different name.
 
Zirakzigil also called Silvertine, Celebdil (Sindarin: "Celeb" [Silver], "-dil" [point]) by the Elves, was a mountain in the Misty Mountains of Middle-earth where Gandalf's fight with Durin's Bane ended.

This is such a dumb argument lol.