Making your tracks sound larger

Yeah I'm gonna have to agree that despite the fact that many good things were said, normalizing and bringing down the master fader is bad gain staging.
I track so it peaks at no higher than -6 not sure what scale that is in pro tools, either way, plenty of headroom.
Generally keep the master fader At unity and start mixing by putting kick and snare at around -6ish so that I'm not running out of headroom and forced to bring the master fader down or trim, that's a ball ache.
 
TheXRatedDodo said:
Winter, you need to stop low-passing your guitars so low. They're so fucking muffled dude, open em up a bit!
Click to expand...

Ther are skill brighter than shit, the pass is just enough so that the annoying fizz is gone. Actaully I think they are a bit brighter than what I have been comparing them to, maybe excpet mercenary, When I bring the brightness to a point wheer the higs are heard, its a bit over the top and the tone gets a bit brittle. Has a lot to do with the Strings, something about the cello and bass that makes themselves and the guitars sound muffled. I have kinda learned to deal with is as I have not heard any pro recorded band do any better, I notice the same faults in their music as well and I they can't get it, what makes me think that I am good enough to do better, epsecially considering I have only drop maybe 500 on my whole recording side of my gear.
 
Force666 said:
WinterSnow, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about tracking levels. I'm a firm believer in that the master fader should never be brought below unity. And, also that channel/bus faders should always be lower than the master fader. Anyways, I digress....:heh:
Click to expand...

I am nowhere near clipping with my master at unity anyway, your implying that I keep all my bus faders near unity, far from it. My approach is that of how you would approach a EQ, get the highest signal through and cut the volumes down to a resonable size. Always cut, never boost

I would have to try that becuase I would imagine that if all the bus faders were below unity when the tracks are peaking at -6dbfs that the volume would be no where near peaking at 0db or even -3db. Besides youabsolutely are not supposed to touch the master fader...why would they put a fader there? There would just be a meter and nothing else. Faders are ment for adjusting volumes, not just sitting there at unity , but that is just in the digital world, in analog, you can't get by with it, however, you are trying to cut volumes, not boost them, as boosting volumes increases noise. In that case if something is too quiet, the other tracks are too loud and so you bring them down.

I actaully don't touch the master fader. I create another master bus so I can do finalizing eq and limiting and all that jazz, and thier is a small horizontal fader that I adjust to keep the master bus at unity. Again a little different but it always works out. Like I said as long as your output volume is clipping, there is no right or wrong way of approaching mixing.

greyskull said:
Yeah I'm gonna have to agree that despite the fact that many good things were said, normalizing and bringing down the master fader is bad gain staging.
Click to expand...

your talking as if we are worried about analog noise, this is all digital, the tone is not being colored by how hard we are driving (or lack of driving) the faders. Gain staging really doens't exsist in digital.

EDIT: Actaully check the volumes in the very first picture. As you can see the master fader is at unity and the only fader that isn't below that is the snare track (the only fader that isn't below the master) and total output volumes is not clipping and this is without trim adjustment.
 
TheWinterSnow said:
I am nowhere near clipping with my master at unity anyway, your implying that I keep all my bus faders near unity, far from it. My approach is that of how you would approach a EQ, get the highest signal through and cut the volumes down to a resonable size. Always cut, never boost

I would have to try that becuase I would imagine that if all the bus faders were below unity when the tracks are peaking at -6dbfs that the volume would be no where near peaking at 0db or even -3db. Besides youabsolutely are not supposed to touch the master fader...why would they put a fader there? There would just be a meter and nothing else. Faders are ment for adjusting volumes, not just sitting there at unity , but that is just in the digital world, in analog, you can't get by with it, however, you are trying to cut volumes, not boost them, as boosting volumes increases noise. In that case if something is too quiet, the other tracks are too loud and so you bring them down.

I actaully don't touch the master fader. I create another master bus so I can do finalizing eq and limiting and all that jazz, and thier is a small horizontal fader that I adjust to keep the master bus at unity. Again a little different but it always works out. Like I said as long as your output volume is clipping, there is no right or wrong way of approaching mixing.
Click to expand...

As with the EQ, the most recommended processing is none, unless needed. Normalizing is just adding a process that is un-needed.

As far as turning all the faders down...it's a wasted step. With "proper" tracking levels you woudn't need to turn your faders up or down (in general).

There still is gain-staging to account for in Digital Summing. And as I said your converters are "optimized" for signals at -18dbfs (Odbvu). That's just the fact.

The get em as hot as possible is from the "analog" days. In this modern digital age much more resonalble tracking levels are widely acceptable. If I took just the drums from a session, say 8 tracks that were all peaking at -6, summed they would be clipping the master bus.

It's fine that you have your own methodology and all that, but I believe that more modest tracking levels (and not "normalizing") would yield better results.
 
I am not doing massive volume drops, is something is obviously too loud i bring it down until it isn't. usually when all the tracks are at the same volume reletive to each other, you don;t have to go very far to correct that. Actaully I can set the level the tracks are normalized to, I can give a shot at -6db to see where that will take me.
 
Also you'll find that with cheaper conveters tracking at a reasonable level sounds better.
 
These infos are valuable. I will also check out Milar. I love you all very much.

bruno
 
Wow. Did it myself, that is insanely valuable information. I prefer my version to the OP's (which means this was a hell of a good tutorial!), but that is a matter of taste, of course!

That's how it sounds real. I'm still shocked. :D

STICKY THIS!
 
i have always been an analog crazy person and have pissed off a few people in this forum for being so and i own and have used many kf the classic units from real pultecs, to all the 1176 comps to whatever.

this is a good aricle, however i think some of the statements are extremely controversial.
 
i still think your guitars are too dark bro
seriously i am hearinga blanket over my speakers and these things are bright as hell
 
Here's my take on it if you wish to hear...
edit : (I actually prefer tweaking it a bit more now!)

A bit less synthy though, personal preference.

Thanks a lot for that guide man, it's ace. :headbang:
 
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