MaNoWaR - what, where, why, how?

[JayKeeley]

You misunderstood me. When I said "It makes for good entertainment", I was talking about the people arguing over who is "more metal" and that "metal must be in your blood" and such. I should of been more clear.

Aha, ok. Cool.

 

[JayKeeley]

Just guessing, but maybe it's something most fans/bands just don't care about anymore. I've personally never been to a stadium show or any large metal concert of more than 200 people, but to be honest I find the smaller shows bring you so much closer to the band and your ability to enjoy the music and atmosphere probably increases when your, at any given place, standing 3 feet from the band and get to talk to them before and after the show.

Right, me too. But it's nice to have the choice to go see festivals and small gigs. I'm not sure why it has to be one or the other. And getting together with masses of people into the same thing is enjoyable for some.

Maybe most bands have no interest in headlining festivals and playing to thousands as I think anymore, most bands concentrate more solely on their music and what it means to them, than what the public will perceive it as and even whether it is viable to play it live.

No, I don't think that's true. I don't think Iron Maiden, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, etc etc wrote music in order to play at stadiums. They happened to (a) write great music that (b) happened to be during a time where people gave a damn in their hundreds of thousands, not hundreds. I think that if (b) was not true, we would have still got (a).

 

[SonOfNun]

No, I don't think that's true. I don't think Iron Maiden, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, etc etc wrote music in order to play at stadiums. They happened to (a) write great music that (b) happened to be during a time where people gave a damn in their hundreds of thousands, not hundreds. I think that if (b) was not true, we would have still got (a).

I agree with this. I think you summed it up well with "during a time where people gave a damn in their hundreds of thousands, not hundreds." Since the 80s it seems metal has become more buried in the underground and the music has become more extreme. Not that Slayer is an accessible band, but the vocals give it the edge over a lot of the music we listen to today because they aren't as "brutal." Are there really that many bands today that even have the ABILITY to appeal to that many people? Especially considering that a lot of the big bands like Opeth may scare off people in droves with a song like "Master's Apprentices." I think it's a combination of the music changing and with it, the mindset of the musicians and fans. Sure there can be festivals, but with the current state of metal being severely underground and the music becoming more extreme, they won't reach the size that they once did. Anyway, I personally prefer the small environment with few people, but I agree that it doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

[Hell Mike]

Several good things have been said here and I agree to them. The ones I remember are that Conan is literature, metal is made by metalheads and not rock stars and something else I jsut forgot.

 

[IOfTheStorm]

I have no understanding of what the fans see in this band,

errr.. the MUSIC ?

 

[Erik]

I could give a shit if I piss you off, what are you gonna do, send me a Nasheim tape to review?? I'm still waiting....

Eh, we just moan like dying dogs and strum the same chords over a drum machine beat, I'm sure you wouldn't like it anyway. We also don't wear loincloths and we do like Bathory. Now if you'll excuse me we have a Bathory cover to do in memory of Quorthon instead of sitting around at a message board dishonouring him.

 

[General Zod]

Ripping solos and screaming lungs not your thing? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING ON A METAL FORUM THEN?!?!?!

I'll agree with the screaming lungs part, but "ripping solos"? I have to disagree here. The guitar playing in Manowar has always been somewhere between remedial to horrible.

Funny Story...

Back in the day, I went to a Manowar show, where they decided to call someone up from the crowd to jam with the band. I guess this was supposed to highlight what an amazing guitar player Ross the Boss is. Apparently, they were selecting someone from the crowd each night of the tour. Anyway, the kid gets up there, and just pisses all over Ross. Ross was redfaced, and the audience was having a good time with it. But the question remains, when you have the lead skills of a half retarded monkey, why would you invite someone on stage to battle against you? I can understand it if you're Vai, Satch or Yngwie, but if you're Ross the Boss?

Zod

 

[JayKeeley]

I went to a Manowar show

Fag.

 

[JayKeeley]

errr.. the MUSIC ?

Yeah, I guess that's what I as initially asking. You know, whether it's more than just the music when it comes to Manowar. I seem to think it is based on what the Manowar fans here have said.

 

[General Zod]

Fag.

Hey, I had just bought a very expensive pair of leather chaps and wanted to go somewhere that they'd be appropriate attire.

Zod

 

[Papa Josh]

Eh, we just moan like dying dogs and strum the same chords over a drum machine beat, I'm sure you wouldn't like it anyway. We also don't wear loincloths and we do like Bathory. Now if you'll excuse me we have a Bathory cover to do in memory of Quorthon instead of sitting around at a message board dishonouring him.

Maybe if you wore loincloths, like Bathory did, you'd be more like 'em.

Hey jackass, why don't you remember who it was that gave your first demo such a glaringly good review? I was just jerking your chain as you're overseas, maybe I should have said, what are you gonna do, hurl a Nasheim demo overseas and hope it hits me in the head?

And I like Bathory, but I'm not gonna fool myself into thinking that material is any better than the shit I made in my garage when I was 15.

As far as Manowar goes, have any of you seen how they treat their fans? They are not unapproachable rock stars, they are quite personable from what I can gather.

 

[Papa Josh]

Manowar's song "Fighting the World" sounds like a throwaway from the Kiss - "Crazy Nights" album (which coincidentally came out the same year 1987).

Also, Manowar's cover art for "Fighting the World" looks suspiciously similar to the Kiss - "Destroyer" cover art.

Perhaps....

Now, tell us why you have that queef Morrissey as an avatar?

 

[Erik]

Hey jackass, why don't you remember who it was that gave your first demo such a glaringly good review?

I'm not sure why you did since obviously Nasheim's no better than the shit you made in your garage when you were 15 either. Better dig out those fucking rehearsal tapes, because my bullshit meter is through the fucking roof here.

Quorthon was a complete musical genius in my eyes and virtually no modern black metal or viking metal can even begin to touch what he did, but that's alright that you're obviously don't recognize great compositional technique and extreme innovation when you hear it -- what gets me is you pissing on Quorthon's grave. Like Bathory or don't, but show some fucking respect when none of the bullshit like Opthacrapia you listen to would have even begun to exist without Bathory.

 

[Papa Josh]

I'm not sure why you did since obviously Nasheim's no better than the shit you made in your garage when you were 15 either. Better dig out those fucking rehearsal tapes, because my bullshit meter is through the fucking roof here.

Quorthon was a complete musical genius in my eyes and virtually no modern black metal or viking metal can even begin to touch what he did, but that's alright that you're obviously don't recognize great compositional technique and extreme innovation when you hear it -- what gets me is you pissing on Quorthon's grave. Like Bathory or don't, but show some fucking respect when none of the bullshit like Opthacrapia you listen to would have even begun to exist without Bathory.

Actually, I enjoyed the Nasheim track more than any Bathory song I've ever heard. But, by your words, that's not saying a lot... whatever.

If Bathory never left the garage (wait, he never did... NO LIVE SHOWS) some other kid would've come along and did the same thing. It was all timing in the pages of history, he was NOT A GENIUS.

And oh, those tapes are long gone, my friend. But don't worry, me and the guy who did all that stuff way back when are talking about doing something for the fuck of it...

 

[Erik]

Nasheim better than Bathory? DO NOT MAKE ME FUCKING LAUGH. Bathory is the type of thing I listen to and feel "holy fuck there's no point making music because I will never even come CLOSE to this type of brilliance."

Forgetting for a while that "what if X never happened" scenarios are useless since that's NOT what happened so you'd better pay due respect to Bathory; you're honestly saying that without Bathory, someone would have come alone and pretty much single-handedly invented both black metal and viking metal? Sorry -- no. Something similar to the self-titled album and "The Return..." could have happened without Bathory because the foundations for that had been laid with Venom and friends, but where the fuck did "Hammerheart" come from? Out of the fucking BLUE. Yeah, there's plenty of Manowar influence, etc, blah blah, but there was NOTHING before "Hammerheart" that sounded quite like it.

I see that Quorthon's main works of importance were from "Under the Sign..." through "Twilight of the Gods," where he really walked his own fucking path doing what noone had dared to do or even thought about doing. You seem to think that the Bathory that matters is the garagey stuff like the first album... You did something better than the epic, grand compositions of "Hammerheart," with big fucking choirs, epic storytelling and almost unparallelled ambition in your fucking garage? At 15? Fuckin 'ell, you broke my bullshit meter!

Quorthon = genius. Sorry. The first albums aren't exactly works of genius, but "Hammerheart" is. Fucking impeccable.

Oh, and Bathory did play live, way back when.

 

[Papa Josh]

Quorthon = genius. Sorry. The first albums aren't exactly works of genius, but "Hammerheart" is. Fucking impeccable.

.

And that is where we fundamentally disagree.

This is absolutely pointless. Yes, the shit in my garage was better than the first three albums put together. I wasn't talking about the "viking" era, which are the only albums I own, the only ones worth owning. And how you write off the Manowar influence, which is the only relevance to this subject being in this thread, makes me feel you're full of shit.

Take a compliment with pride, or are you too tr00 for that, too?

Besides, I didn't want to go here, but if we wanna talk about innovation with minimal means, Celtic Frost pisses all over Bathory.

 

[Erik]

I write off the Manowar influence? Holy shit that must be why earlier in the thread I said

Manowar was a HUGE influence on Bathory and anyone who tries to deny that should try listening to "Blood of My Enemies" and "The Sword" back to back.

I'm just saying I don't hear blatant Manowar where it matters. Bathory did something wholly their own.

I can take compliments, but heh, I'd rather they contain some amount of truth. Saying Nasheim is better than Bathory is like saying Hammerfall pisses all over Iron Maiden, but to each his own I guess eh?

 

[Papa Josh]

I can take compliments, but heh, I'd rather they contain some amount of truth.

Truth all boils down to perception.

 

[Erik]

I guess so, so thank you I suppose, but then again you can probably imagine how strange it feels being told something like that when you feel that your work is lowly poo compared to gods like Bathory.

 

[ProgMetalFan]

Perhaps....

Now, tell us why you have that queef Morrissey as an avatar?

I'm comfortable with my own metalness enough to use a shirtless picture of Morrissey as my avatar.