Maryland Deathfest 2019

CiG said:
Except when it comes to red-fascism then they're all in.



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The "anecdotes" came afterwards.

My first comment was pointing out that Onder, in a very braindead fashion, mischaracterized what happened as "two guys had an argument at a festival of 5000 people" rather than what it actually was.

Then I pointed out that Onder was kinda sperging out a bit and seemed very salty, then when I realized he was genuinely a bit mad I tried to just ignore him and lightly tease him, rather than try to get a real rise out of him for no reason.

Then I said capitulating to AntiFa types only incentivizes their idiotic activities and that the guy should have taken it to management.

Then Sirjack said some dumb shit about "woo hoo try that with bouncers bruh" and here we are. Thanks for trying though. :lol:



You failed miserably as usual.
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What-aboutism -> Deflection -> Shitpost: Classic CiG.

And the guy loses my benefit of the doubt with the pic.
 
Black Orifice said:
@EternalMetal Fair response. A couple of remarks to this. I doubt the guy in this case goose-steps in his free time. I can sympathize with the argument that for most who come across this band, that they're politically disinterested and are more attracted to the shock value of it. Ok, fair enough. The problem is, unlike lots of other types of bands, NSBM is explicitly political, unlike most metal. The guy chose to put this patch on his jacket over other acts (not sure where CiG is getting the extra details about the jacket he's referencing unless he's got another source). Why? Who knows, but it wasn't out of complete disinterest for the band, and, giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe it had more to do with the shock value. That doesn't change the explicitly political message of the patch.
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It is very often that I listen to a band or am a fan of a band without knowing anything about their ideologies. Hell, until a few months ago I had no idea how radical Peste Noire is, since in the past ive only judged them on the merit of their music. Im not going to assume that the guy knows nothing about the band (he probably does), but his reasons for putting on the patch shouldn't really matter imo.

In my case, I grew up in a Christian household and even spent a few years going to the church youth group in order to spend time with my cousins and their family (they take their Evangelism seriously). At the time I was getting into metal, and they tried to tell me that I shouldnt listen to it, and that there are many Christian bands that play the same style. As it turns out metal barely has any Christian bands, and they usually suck. So as a practicing Christian (at the time), I was secretly listening to Burzum and Darkthrone and had to act like I wasn't. I eventually realized that I should just listen to whatever I like, regardless of whether I agreed or disagreed with their ideology.

Im now feeling the same societal pressure regarding NSBM and other racist bands. Now instead of burning churches it is organized political rallies. To be quite honest it wouldn't even bother me if a guy decked out in Nazi attire were to attend a concert that im at. As long as he isnt pushing his ideology down people's throats and being violent about it, I don't really care. Either way the metal community would probably self-police and kick him out anyways, and that's how it should be. Antifa shouldnt be dictating what we as the metal community will or will not accept.

Black Orifice said:
I'm not going to pour through Goatmoon videos to find legions of Hitler salutes, but using a Nazi flag with a goat instead of a swastika certainly makes it hard to make the claim it's more about shocking than politics, particularly if you're aware of the Völkisch foundation of Nazism (Not to mention songs like Sonderkommando Nord, Sonderkommando of which refers in its best case to the Luftwaffe, but likelier it refers to either the guards at Auschwitz or SS officers of the Einsatzgruppen (the special group of soldiers that gunned over a million unarmed Jewish prisoners into ditches).

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Im aware of the NSBM scene. Just a bunch of stuck up racists who like to spew half-wit philosophy.

Black Orifice said:
Final quick remark and then I need to be on my way. Why is it that racist/nationalist bands cause a bunch of controversy, where as satanic and violent themes don't get a rise out of Antifa? It's called Anti-Fascist Action, and opposing racist/nationalist ideological groups is their central motivation for organization.
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New era, new outrage. It doesn't help that self-associating NSBM bands are filled with actual Nazi sympathizers who obsess to the point of annoyance over racial purity.
 
CiG said:
Yoda is the biggest Goatmoon fan around here and Funerary has said she likes some NSBM. Clearly you can listen to that shit without being a Nazi.
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Oh boy, you ready for me to start preaching, right now? LOL.

I find that Europeans don't have much meaningful experiences with other races to be very racist in general. They talk about pride in their culture, which isn't something I'm completely against... as long as they don't go overboard I don't really mind it as much, especially in art.

Some American NSBM does bother me because American history/culture has been tangled in racial superiority vs racial inferiority since the beginning. There's pretty much a caste system in which African Americans are at the bottom though they're the bones and guts of the country with their free labor building it, but everyone pretends to bury that history and pretend that nothing even happened and things are the way they are now because of racial inferiority vs racial superiority. Though I'm Caribbean descent (meaning my family didn't build this country), we look (and identify with) like African Americans and our history is pretty similar to even sympathize with their situation when you see and understand the entire story.

TLDR: In short, American "NSBM" bothers me more than European NSBM as the lyrics tend to be more racist and just actually way more ignorant and discriminatory to a group of people who were literally used as the shoes that everyone stepped on to build the U.S. I take more offense to bands like Slave Whipping Blasphemy than bands of Eastern European descent making an instrumental song named, "The Call of Aryan Spirit"

I guess I don't always equate nationalism to racism. Orrrr.... I'm just an evil genius and got into Graveland and shit and just making excuses for myself as to why I can continue to listen to them. -shrug- The world may never know. Really though, this makes more sense in my head than saying it. It's actually quite complicated to even put into brief words here, but I can imagine some of you understand, I guess.
 
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I don't even listen to any of that stuff, I just think it's dumb to be kicked out for a Goatmoon logo patch regardless of what the band stands for. But I understand the difference between the regional variants on the style you're trying to highlight and how one is easier to justify listening to over another.

I've also pretty much always thought racial pride was overwhelmingly a dumb thing to engage in, so some pigfucker from the farmlands of Finland singing about skin colour isn't something I'd necessarily want to defend. I just dislike the abuse of authority in this MDF incident and the policing of something as arbitrary as a patch jacket. And this idea that this guy must be a Nazi or a "Nazi sympathizer" because he had that patch is rendered pretty ridiculous seeing as you, a black woman, don't mind some NSBM (especially if it's European).

Dickheads like BO very often jump the gun and make assumptions of people based on stuff like this and I think it's wrong, and often disingenuous as fuck.
 
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Well I don’t want you to think I care about nationalism either. If I really think about it logically it’s actually the most laziest way to be proud of something you had nothing to do with. Something that happened simply by chance.

If someone of authority told me I couldn’t bring water bottles to a show, I’d dump it out. I got rid of my mace once because I wasn’t allowed to have it in the show. I’m not exactly sure what happened but did he just become defiant rather than just remove his vest? I’m also pretty big on not making things into a big deal if they don’t need to be. I’d remove my vest or let the guy know I wasn’t NS or something. I think at that point the show was more important than the patch.

Also I just think I have less experience with Europeans to be... what’s the word? Like... I guess for me it’s harder to understand their intentions with NS ideology. I think each band is case by case for sure. I don’t want to hear any crazy talk about burning people of color or anything like that in my music, but I don’t mind a bunch of dudes in their 40’s making grandiose songs using some sorta “edgy” words in the title like “aryan” or “sun wheel.”

I’ve also seen like Rob Darken make statements saying he’s not racist and realizes he has fans of color and thinks that’s cool. Idk. I do think people can change too. I want to say like early 1990s- early 2000s it was accepted to be NS n a lot of bands were. Fuck, I think a lot of them were too just because they were young n read some crazy stories about Hitler. The music was started by basically kids it’s definitely something to take into consideration especially when they get older and face palm at it.

A lot of people don’t really understand extreme metal and I don’t really know Goatmoon, but I wouldn’t assume someone’s racist because of an NS patch. Extreme metal especially a lot of the early bands have been a bit questionable with their views. I’m not looking at them to be this amazing person. Actually can argue it’s sorta the opposite. It’s complicated, but most of us are not looking for something “normal” when we listen to it. I just want nasty riffs. But I suppose everyone has their own tolerance
 
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I agree with everything you're saying here, I don't think it's black & white at all, especially when it comes to the listeners as opposed to the artists. I disagree with the messages and ideologies of 99% of the metal I listen to. I certainly don't adopt socialism whenever I listen to Panopticon or green-anarchism whenever I listen to Wolves in the Throne Room etc. It's ridiculous to assume these things, but we tend to only assume this when it comes to nationalist bands.

Funerary_Doom said:
If someone of authority told me I couldn’t bring water bottles to a show, I’d dump it out. I got rid of my mace once because I wasn’t allowed to have it in the show. I’m not exactly sure what happened but did he just become defiant rather than just remove his vest? I’m also pretty big on not making things into a big deal if they don’t need to be. I’d remove my vest or let the guy know I wasn’t NS or something. I think at that point the show was more important than the patch.
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He handled it pretty badly by all accounts, which is why my sympathy for him is much less passionate than it could be. The guard gave him two choices; turn the vest inside-out or simply leave the venue. The guy decided to leave the venue and waste all his money, as well as like you said, miss the show which was probably more important than some jacket.

My suggestion was that he should have complied so he could remain in the venue, and then simply go and complain to someone above him, just to make sure it wasn't a guard with an ideological bias abusing his power. If a higher authority backs up their guard's actions, oh well you win some you lose some, but instead the guy just buckled to authority which I personally think is pretty pathetic.

(I never once suggested he should have started a fight with the guard or whatever Sirtwat was trying to imply.)
 
I'm the biggest Goatmoon fan around here? Where the fuck do you get that info? I like the band, yeah, but I'm not going to go around rocking their patches or shirts in public.
 
I assume he means you’re the only one here (other than me) that talks about them.

I like them and tbh I’m sure I could wear a logo shirt in WV and no one would ever give a shit.

I’ll say what I did on nwn. I’m f you never read their lyrics or went to one of their shows, they come off as a fairly harmless dorky folky black metal band. Sure you can cry about a song title like Sonderkommando Nord but even that song is just an acoustic instrumental with an offensive title.
 
@EternalMetal sorry man i didn't bother to check the forum before i left

Highlights

- having someone tap me on the shoulder to get my attention about my The Chasm back-patch and turning around to see it was Daniel Corchado! talked to him for a bit before Messiah played

- all the rare live bands i wanted to see killed it and were among the best of the fest (Rippikoulu, Tormentor, Regurgitation)

- Zemial as i had no idea that they have Proscriptor doing vocals

- Blood was the best performance of the fest. so much energy

- having a few more death metal bands crossed off my bucket list (Brutality, Fleshcrawl, Unleashed)

Lowlights

- Tchornobog. they were the only band that i watched that were objectively bad. bassist lost her place a few times and had a deer in headlights look

- going back to my room for a "quick" nap and falling asleep for a few hours so i missed Immolation and Pestilence

- being drunk for 4 days straight. i haven't been drinking this year up until the fest. i was pretty hammered when i ran into @zabu of nΩd
 
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