Melodic Death Metal Vs. Death Metal

[JesterRace]

Melodic Death Metal Vs. DeathMetal

I'm trying to figure out more or less what people consider to be melodic death metal compared to just metal and how straight death metal compares to melodic death metal.

In my view, melodic death metal is hard driving metal that's usually technically skilled and is basically metal with the presence of screaming/growling with clean singing or just screaming/growling. Such as:
In Flames, Gardenian, Opeth, Children Of Bodom, etc.

So what would one consider a band such as Nevermore? They're still pretty underground in the US, but its all clean singing, you can't exactly put the word death in the title to describe them.

On the other end, just straight death metal I associate with a lack of technical prowess, although the band members may have it, they just don't show it. It's mostly just really loud, grotesquely downtuned guitars without any song structure (verse, chorus, solo) that's really noticeable. And the growling voice is usually impossible to understand, especially amongst the blast beat drums that really annoy the living shit out of me. Such as:

Cannibal Corpse, Mortician, Morbid Angel, Obituary, etc.

And then there's the fine line between death metal and grind core, which is usually an album with all minute long songs with each one sounding like a gigantic mess of discordant shit.

I'm sorry if I offend some people here, but to me, these truly extreme styles like grindcore seem to really undermine the concept of music and metal. Especially when bands like cannibal corpse sell more albums than lesser known metal bands putting all their heart into their music. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of melodic death metal, and growls and shit don't bother me, but theres gotta be some kind of a line to draw in the sand. How can someone go from the extremely melodic dual guitarwork of In Flames or Children Of Bodom to the incoherent barking of mortician under a constant barrage of fuzzy inhumanly fast power chords behind a blast beat. I saw someone tab out one of their songs once, they tune down to G for christ sakes! Although I can say that if some of these bands are just doing it to be funny, they're doing a good job. Like Carcass. They suddenly decided, for some reason, to drop the grindcore act and play melodic death metal when they released their album "Heartwork" which I like a lot. Now you have a good band playing cool songs named Carcass because of their early days of grindcore. I mean their song titles used to be things such as:
Regurgitation of Giblets. - I literally burst out laughing when I
saw that song title
and I think Carcass did this one: "Vomited Anal Tract".
Is this one even possible in any way folks? Maybe during the Bubonic Plague or a recent outbreak of the Ebola virus

I actually came across Carcass by accident when I was trying to download one of their songs off of a P2p sharing program (Fuck you recording companies, it isn't like I can sample Carcass songs at fucking record town at Anytown, USA. If I like it I buy the CD, seems to make sense to me.)
I found this song called "Rock The Vote" and I was wondering why they would call a song something so normal like that so I downloaded and I was shocked. Waiiiiit.. I like this.. what's going on? Dual guitars in minor third harmony breaking into a catchy power chord verse and chorus with a cool solo. Where'd this come from?

Thanks for hearing me out.

 

[LordFireworm]

Oooooooh.
Tricky.
In Flames vs. Cryptopsy
Opeth Vs. Krisiun
Gardenian Vs. Immolation.

Well,I listen to both and I guess like both just as much.
In Flames (And Such) I listen to when I want something musical and inspiring.Immolation,when I went to be consumed by a world of noise,demonic growls and fast fucking blastbeats.
As for the technical aspect,you are wrong.Have you heard most modern death metal?Alot of it is fucking nuts.Take a listen to Cryptopsy for example.More technical then any melodic band I can think of.Even Opeth.
Even Cannibal Corpse are putting out more technical shit these days.
Hmm...I cant remember most of what you said so I'll stick to my original point,I like all forms of metal.
Death and Nasum for an aggression release.
Melodic and SOME black (Emperor,Dissection) for melodic inspiration and thrash just for bobbing my head.

 

[XTREME666]

Originally posted by JesterRace

without any song structure (verse, chorus, solo) that's really noticeable.

You've got this the wrong way around. How is a band technical because they stick to a rigid verse,chorus,verse,chorus,solo? I haven't a problem with this but what many good Death bands (Cryptopsy) do is break free of this and explore more complex structures

 

[JesterRace]

Originally posted by phyre
I typed a REALLY fucking long answer to this, but my browser crashed when I pressed "Preview." Fuck. Well, anyway. What the FUCK is your problem?

In my opinion, melodic death metal is death metal that's melodic (Dismember, At The Gates and old In Flames for example). Children of Bodom is power metal with screamed vocals.


Heavy metal or power metal. There is not a trace of death metal in their music.


Which is terribly ignorant.


Heh heh, you sound like my grandmother. Again, this is ignorant beyond belief. If you need verse-chorus-verse structures, perhaps you should stick to your melodic "death" metal or even better, something more mainstream, and stop discussing music you do not understand.


Perhaps you should try listening to something besides mainstream U.S. death metal.

Living in the US I don't have too much choice unless I want to
go searching now do I?


No, there's not. There's a line, but it's not particularly fine at all.



Some people see beyond the noise and hear the music beneath, which carries emotion Children of Bodom would never dream of accomplishing.

That actually sounds pretty insane. That's like saying you can
take a look at a run down crackhouse and see the beauty beneath.

You can have your opinions, but you do not define the "concept of music and metal". Get off your soap box.

Yes I have my opinions, unfortunately I don't know too much, so
some of them may be ignorant I will admit. I live in Small Town, NY so I don't get a chance to hear that much. What I have found I had to search for. So stop flaming me, its beginning to piss me off.

If you are going to complain about that, complain about Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit, not a perfectly honest death metal band who have worked hard to get to where they are.

Perfectly honest death metal? I'm sure cannibal corpse put a lot of thought into how he will growl incoherently in the next song and what part of the body is going to be ripped out next.

Some people like "extremely melodic dual guitarwork", some people like "fuzzy inhumanly fast power chords behind a blast beat." Others, like me, can enjoy both. Most importantly, though, I accept and respect both, and others' opinions.

No, you don't respect people's opinions, obviously, because your straight out telling me that I'm wrong.

Iron Maiden tune to E, In Flames tune to C, At The Gates tune to B. What's your point? Oh, I get it -- the tuning of your guitar is directly proportional to the quality of your music. High tuning = high quality. Sorry.

Actually for this, you are totally incorrect. I posted something in another thread trying to explain how bands use different styles in attune to their different styles. I never implied the lower it is, the better. Stop putting words in my mouth. My point was that tuning down that low is ridiculous, the guitar wasn't made for that low of a tuning.. its what baritone guitars and basses are for.

Their previous album "Necroticism - Descanting The Insalubrious" was technical and melodic death metal too, although in a different way.

I never said it wasn't. I just made a comment about the names of the songs.

In Flames' song titles are things such as "Pinball Map". Children of Bodom's song titles are things like "Hate Me". Again, what the FUCK is your point? Let people write about what they want.

How does Pinball Map and Hate Me have any relation to "Entrails Ripped From A Virgin's Cunt"? by Cannibal Corpse? The earlier are weird, the latter is just digusting.

 

[JesterRace]

Originally posted by XTREME666


You've got this the wrong way around. How is a band technical because they stick to a rigid verse,chorus,verse,chorus,solo? I haven't a problem with this but what many good Death bands (Cryptopsy) do is break free of this and explore more complex structures

Again, i never said that this made a band more technical, It's just the "standard" or recognizeable song format. It can be good or bad. Sometimes it can be good to not stick to the rigid format.

 

[JesterRace]

Originally posted by LordFireworm
Oooooooh.
Tricky.
In Flames vs. Cryptopsy
Opeth Vs. Krisiun
Gardenian Vs. Immolation.

Well,I listen to both and I guess like both just as much.
In Flames (And Such) I listen to when I want something musical and inspiring.Immolation,when I went to be consumed by a world of noise,demonic growls and fast fucking blastbeats.
As for the technical aspect,you are wrong.Have you heard most modern death metal?Alot of it is fucking nuts.Take a listen to Cryptopsy for example.More technical then any melodic band I can think of.Even Opeth.

Now that I've tried listening to more stuff like that I realize that. I can't say I really like it because of the singer, but it is indeed impressive guitar work.

Even Cannibal Corpse are putting out more technical shit these days.
Hmm...I cant remember most of what you said so I'll stick to my original point,I like all forms of metal.
Death and Nasum for an aggression release.
Melodic and SOME black (Emperor,Dissection) for melodic inspiration and thrash just for bobbing my head.

I appreciate your intelligent post.. unlike Phyre who basically has been spending his time nitpicking at everything I have to say. His post starts with "What is your fucking problem".. That's a sure indication of self-centered bullshit to follow.

 

[JesterRace]

The whole point of my original thread was to stir up some controversy and see what people think. Not being exposed to extreme metal styles until I searched around for myself, I don't know too much about all of the bands. I only know my opinion through my years of playing guitar and listening to whatever I can get my hands on. I appreciate all your posts, even Phyre, because its amusing that I can get someone actually angry over a post in the forums. I think you need to knock back a few drinks and relax.

 

[JesterRace]

To illustrate the point I made earlier about Phyre's post, here's a post I made in the "play heavier" thread to someone who said that tuning down is "gay".


{Oh sorry, there's one more thing that I wanted to add from one of the posts that I saw. Down tuning can be a bad thing, yes, because a lot of the nu-metal bands, which I despise as well, use it. But that's because they don't know how to use their instruments and they just tune down way too far or use seven strings and even tune them down. This is the American way unfortunately, mainstream rock/metal in the US sucks. But there are plenty of bands that downtune that are great musicians and songwriters. Some people just like the sound that it gives you. A good example would be the band Nevermore. On their newest album, he uses a 7-string tuned down 1/2 step so the lowest string is Bb. But he uses the 7 string for the range as well as the heaviness he can get out of it. He can go way up on the neck on high strings and play wicked solos and then come spiraling down to a few booming low power chords that really are metal. It's just that nu-metal bands don't know how to use their instruments, its not the concept of tuning down that's bad.
My main guitar is my ESP which is tuned down 2 steps to C. I've been waiting to get EMG's for it, but it has a really cool dark sound that is accentuated even more by the lower tuning, even with the Seymour-Duncans (still good pickups). Ex: In Flames tunes to C for most of their songs.


Gardenian - down to B, C on Soulburner
Children Of Bodom - down 1 step- DGCFAD
Arch Enemy - down to B
...lots more
even the all mighty Metalligreed has used Dropped D, and tuned down 1/2 step}

 

[Dead Winter]

I like all metal...no matter what. I see what JesterRace is saying, and he has a very valid point. I don't see how anyone could get offended by his post, although some people do. But just like everyone else, I listen to a wide array of metal. Even the "pseudo black metal" Cradle of Filth...as I prepare for the mudslinging. Personally, I don't think they are black...they aren't what black metal is. Mayhem is black metal. COF is goth metal. I also like Dimmu...although they aren't "true" black metal...I still dig em. I like Decapitated, Hypocrisy, Opeth, Soilwork, In Flames, Arch Enemy, Nevermore, At the Gates, Carcass, Death, etc.

But I don't limit myself to just death and black metal. Yes, I still love Metallica...albeit the older stuff. In my opinion, for their time frame there was no better band than Metallica during the Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets days. If they came out with another album like MOP or RTL, they would be fucking huge...bigger than they ever were. I don't care who you are, or how "true" you hold yourself to music. EVERY metal head likes old Metallica. You can bring up the Napster bullshit all you want...that's beside the point. You can bring up the "sell-out" stuff all you want as well...but you can never say that there will be a better band than Metallica if they went back to their thrash roots. I know it's a bold statement, and I'm not really talking about technical prowess. There are alot bands that are technically better than Metallica, but I don't think any band could play speed metal with the feeling that Metallica did. Too bad they aren't around anymore. No other band can give you that feeling that you had when you heard MOP for the first time. Like I said, other bands are better nowadays, but if Metallica ever made a true comeback to their roots and dropped all the bullshit, they would crush everyone.

I also love Megadeth...Holy Wars. Need I say more?

I listen to everything from Iron Maiden to Deicide...I love it all. I prefer bands with harmony and melody, but still thrashy and heavy. Bands like Soilwork, In Flames, and Opeth are some of my favs. I also love Anathema...no other band has the feeling that they put into their music...although it's more hard rock now. But sometimes you just need to wreck yourself, so I put on some brutal death like Decaptitated or Deicide. It's all in the moods you are in. I wouldn't listen to Cannibal Corpse if I was wanting to kick back and relax...only if I want to hear some aggression. Also, I wouldn't put on Anathema if I wanted to really pound out some riffs...well, maybe the Silent Enigma, lol. I'm really leaning more towards doom metal these days, because they have alot of feeling that they pour into their music. But I'll always go back to thrash and speed. I just love the technical aspect of it. I love solos, and that's why I hate the US's mainstream scene. It's a fucking joke. When I go out with friends or meet people back in the states, people will ask me who I listen to, and judging by the deer-in-the-headlights look that I get when I tell them about bands like Opeth, I know right off the bat what they are listening to. Opeth is fairly popular these days, even for death/folk metal. I'm actually surprised that some people haven't heard of them, even if they don't listen to them. But anyway, I know they usually listen to the same old crap like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park. Bullshit ROCK, not metal with downtuned guitars that they don't know how to play. They should just remove all the strings except for the top three and be done with it. I saw in a magazine one day about one of the guitarists for Linkin Park...he was endorsing something, and it showed his picture and right next to it stated his name and "lead guitarist for Linkin Park". LEAD guitarist? The only thing they are leading is the line of sucky musicians. You have to be able to play a solo before you can call yourself a lead guitarist. All the Korns/Limp Bizkits/Linkin Parks can eat my ass. The only halfway mainstream band that I can listen to is OLD Machine Head, like The More Things Change and the first album with Davidian. I feel like I have to apologize to all the worldly musicians on this forum for my country's half-assed mainstream music scene. We have good underground bands, but Scandinavia and Europe is where it's at. That's where the real shit is.

So to wrap things up, it's all in the mood you're in. Only listening to one type of MUSIC, much less one type of metal is only short changing yourself. I listen to all music, as long as there is some talent. A DJ and a downtuned, three chord guitar isn't talent.

Ever hear of the country singer Junior Brown? If you want to hear some really good guitar work, check him out...he's fuckin awesome. John Williams, as you know who did the Star Wars themes, is a really good classical guitarist, he plays Vivaldi pieces really well. Classical guitar is where you need to go if you really want to expand your horizons. There is no metal guitarist on the planet that can keep up with a classical guitarist, in terms of knowledge and ability...unless he himself is classically trained, such as Vai, Satch, EVH, or John Petrucci.

 

[xenophobe]

Jester, are you a musician or a spectator?

Just curious.

You seem to be way off on so many points, without knowing if you understand musical theory or not I will just leave it as a misguided attempt to label, critisize and offend.

I found your questioning to be rather humorous.

Thanks!

 

[Magicawe]

LMAO at xenophobe

 

[Nate The Great]

JesterRace. It sounds like you have a lot to learn about metal. However, this could be because you are new to a lot of the genres. Have you really listened to a lot of the basic and fundamental albums. I'm curious . . .What do you think of one of the greatest albums ever recorded - Emperor "Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk".

 

[Nate The Great]

Originally posted by thrashmetal78
I feel like I have to apologize to all the worldly musicians on this forum for my country's half-assed mainstream music scene. We have good underground bands, but Scandinavia and Europe is where it's at. That's where the real shit is.

Have you heard of bands like Isis, Drowningman, Dillinger Escape Plan, Converge, Old Man Gloom, Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, Warhorse, Watchmaker, etc.

My point is that American metal has a lot more to offer than you give credit for.

Terrorizer magazine (a damn good mag) has given the NUMBER 1 album of the year to an American band at least the last 3 years.

 

[LucioArgento]

Originally posted by JesterRace


How does Pinball Map and Hate Me have any relation to "Entrails Ripped From A Virgin's Cunt"? by Cannibal Corpse? The earlier are weird, the latter is just digusting.

Each to their own. I personally like sick horror movie shit too - especially the splatter gore genre stuff that comes out of Italy and Japan.

I only wish Cannibal Corspe could put to film what they do in music: Orgasm through Torture, Pit of Zombies, Fucked with a Knife, Force Fed Broken Glass, and the classic Addicted to Vaginal Skin.

Now who wouldn't pay good money to see that on the big screen with dolby digital? heh.

By the way, In Flames' Clayman is bit too melodic for my liking. Not that I'm against melody - far from it - I just prefer their earlier stuff. The better variation of this can be found in Soilwork (Natural Born Chaos) IMO.

 

[Magicawe]

I wish i was full of smartness like Phyre(i'm not being sarcastic)

 

[LucioArgento]

What is shocking is that people actually voted in the poll. What does that reflect then - that if you selected, say, Grindcore then you exclude yourself from other styles? Seems a bit limiting.

 

[Magicawe]

Yeah i didnt vote either i like multiple genres even though i think categorizing is stupid there are shitty bands in each genre and really good ones in each genre

 

[xenophobe]

I voted, but there's so much more to music than to sub-categorize it genre by genre.

Exodus, Cryptopsy, Carcass... whatever. it's all heavy shit I listen to that I think is good.

 

[JesterRace]

The poll is supposed to allow you to choose multiple genres, although I know that the choices listed don't really cover the vast offering of them. There's really way too many to make a big poll on all of them, I kind of generalized them into a few to get an idea.
In response to Phyre, Cannibal Corpse's songs and song titles ARE disgusting, they are supposed to be, even ask the members of the band themselves, it was their point to be as disgusting as possible. It isn't MY concept of disgusting, it just is to anybody who reads it. It's disgusting and amusing at the same time, which is why I enjoy reading the titles to laugh at them, because that was their point.. but I still can't get myself to listen to it. I think that you really need to stop being so angry and think for a minute. Like I said earlier, I may be ignorant of some styles of music for lack of experience of listening to them, but the ones I have heard come across to me as being utterly ridiculous. What kind of emotion can you derive from it other than murderous rage or amusement? The artists themselves intended it to be this way, so they expected criticism, and welcome it, because their point was to shock the public.
In answer to the theory question, I do know a lot about theory, and I do recognize the fact that some of these death/grindcore bands have knowledge of theory, but regardless of how complicated their playing may be, it still comes across to me as just ridiculous. It doesn't impress me as well written music. Especially the lyrics (i.e. cannibal corpse) because it isn't writing about experiences in their life or whatever it may be, its just finding the most grotesque things to say. You can't deny that, that's what it is. No matter how many times you can childishly call me names or swear at me, I'm not going to change my opinion, which I'm quite entitled to. I simply can't understand why people can enjoy it. Music to me is music that provokes emotions that may or may not be uplifting or depressing or whatever. The girl that fucked you over, or speaking out against this ever confusing life and the things that happen in it. Cannibal Corpse doesn't do that, they just think of the nastiest, grotesque things they can think of and add it to their music. Which you would need the lyric book for, considering theres no way in hell you can understand what they're saying through the incoherent grunts and growls.
As someone said earlier, to each his own, and Phyre really missed my point on saying that I had no intention on trying to upset people. I thank everyone for their respectful and intelligent posts that will better my knowledge on this subject.

 

[xenophobe]

Well, just because you don't get it or don't like it, you don't need to stir up the group of people who do just to get them upset.

I don't understand the motive behind that. I could understand IF you were inquiring WHY, but the fact you come here, make insulting generalizations about music I enjoy is something beyond my comprension if it isn't just to act like your laughable final opinion is rule of law or something.

I'm sure my explantions of whatever music YOU might be into, of which I am not, would probably be nearly as narrowminded as your comments.

Are Death Metal lyrics stupid? For the most part, yes.

On the flip side, are any lyrics of any song by Pink Floyd, Van Halen, Iron Maiden, AC/DC, Peter Gabriel, Elvis Presley or any OTHER musical product any "better"?

So, before you decide that some other band has stupid lyrics, listen to the music that you enjoy and see just how much 'sense' they make.