Mixing session done - band refuses to pay

[MarkG]

You did the work, they have to pay. But in their defense, you should have made sure they were aware of the price before starting. Informed consent sort of deal, you can't consent if you haven't been properly informed and it is the professionals job to ensure the client was informed properly before agreeing to work on anything.

Not trying to start a fight, I agree completely they have to pay and they were idiots to start without knowing your price. BUT it was your job to make sure they knew what they were getting themselves into.

*striking Dandelium off list of potential clients*

Good thing he is well capable of mixing his own work

 

[tgs]

I'm saying you lacked judgment when Cletus walked into the car lot, and you try and sell him a sports car.

I normally don't check up on clients' popularity before I commence to work with them. Our prices are stated on the homepage and should be enough to make a guess about what the total might be. To apply your analogy, it's more like letting the car shop swipe your card without asking for the price, drive the sports car home and then complain when the card bill shows up in the mailbox.

 

[Joematthews]

If I was the band I wouldn't pay either. 600€ for a single track without previous warning? That's just insane, sorry.

I hate to say it, but I've gotta agree. You should have given them at least a rough estimate of the magnitude of the cost, I was shocked by 600 euro's for a song as well. You can't compare it to a contractor or anything because the contractor would say it'll be roughly so much, and then it'll cost similar to that, it looked like you just sprung that figure out of no where.

Joe

 

[tgs]

it looked like you just sprung that figure out of no where.

Joe

Hmmm?

 

[thefyn]

I normally don't check up on clients' popularity before I commence to work with them. Our prices are stated on the homepage and should be enough to make a guess about what the total might be. To apply your analogy, it's more like letting the car shop swipe your card without asking for the price, drive the sports car home and then complain when the card bill shows up in the mailbox.

So you didn't do a credit check? hehe

Just sayin man, you are a pro and they are average black metal band.

$1000 is a lot for local band heroes. I mean you can tell they are not going to sell enough CD's from the music surely? The music should be a reality check right there.

 

[Joematthews]

I suppose you didn't pull it out of no where, but you still should have given them an estimate. That was where the big mistake was.

Joe

 

[Erik Monsonis]

I suppose you didn't pull it out of no where, but you still should have given them an estimate. That was where the big mistake was.

Joe

That's right. It's also a band's fault to approve him to start working without knowing the rough price.

*striking Dandelium off list of potential clients*

 

[tgs]

$1000 is a lot for local band heroes. I mean you can tell they are not going to sell enough CD's from the music surely? The music should be a reality check right there.

I fail to see how that relates to ME, since they were clearly aware of my work. You don't go into Gucci if your wallet is thin (not saying I'm the Gucci of producers or anything, haha). My prices are quoted on the homepage and I assumed that they knew that a mix is not done in half a day.

They should have a reality check before they decide who to contact for the mix. I'm sure there are plenty of people who could have done it much cheaper for them but they don't get the same result. I don't have time to draw conclusions about clients either. Some months ago I had an unsigned band recording in the studio, paying around 3000 euros out of their own pocket. So I don't assume that a band has no money just because they happen to be small.

 

[thefyn]

This thread kinda makes me realize I can't afford to get a decent dude to mix/master my 3 song demo. :-(

 

[MarkG]

This thread kinda makes me realize I can't afford to get a decent dude to mix/master my 3 song demo. :-(

I already realised...but this is rubbing it in Our next demo will be self produced

 

[tgs]

I suppose you didn't pull it out of no where, but you still should have given them an estimate. That was where the big mistake was.

Joe

In hindsight yes, that would have avoided the whole issue. As I also acknowledged in the very first paragraph on the page, hehe.

 

[thefyn]

I fail to see how that relates to ME, since they were clearly aware of my work. You don't go into Gucci if your wallet is thin (not saying I'm the Gucci of producers or anything, haha). My prices are quoted on the homepage and I assumed that they knew that a mix is not done in half a day.

They should have a reality check before they decide who to contact for the mix. I'm sure there are plenty of people who could have done it much cheaper for them but they don't get the same result. I don't have time to draw conclusions about clients either. Some months ago I had an unsigned band recording in the studio, paying around 3000 euros out of their own pocket. So I don't assume that a band has no money just because they happen to be small.

They paint their faces white and black. Reality is what they run from.

 

[GarethSE]

well either way
this is a fucking cool song

 

[MarkG]

well either way
this is a fucking cool song

Hey Gareth, make that banner clickable. Clicked it for 2 minutes wondering why it didn't take me to the myspace

 

[tgs]

well either way
this is a fucking cool song

Maybe you should contact them and ask if they want it mixed, haha.

 

[GarethSE]

hah, maybe maybe.

im quite interested in hearing a snippet of your final mix

 

[nwright]

In hindsight yes, that would have avoided the whole issue. As I also acknowledged in the very first paragraph on the page, hehe.

Then, really, IMO you have no one to blame but yourself.

The band is super lame for not wanting to pay you, I agree. But, the problems with this project began with you a.) NOT giving an estimate or working out details, b.)leading them on with rough mixes without giving the estimate, c.) finishing the project without giving an estimate.

You had plenty of chances IMO to provide the estimate and you didn't. And, maybe I'm reading too much into the emails, but the tone of the emails to me seem a bit desperate and frustrated on the bands side, which means I would have pushed the estimate issue a bit harder. From the moment you asked about details on the recording, you got a short, somewhat snarky answer with "Look, it was recorded in a pro studio" bullshit. Then, when you did get the files, there were some pretty amateur mistakes...Something a pro studio probably wouldn't have done...So, another BIG sign that you need to cover your ass. I hate to say it's all your fault, because I guess it isn't, but I can see how ANY reasonable person would kinda jump a bit if a bill like that was dropped on them. As a dude in a band, I would laugh if someone tried to bill me 1000 (US) dollars for mixing 1 song, but I would also know beforehand how much I'd be in for (and choose not to use said engineer). But from the outset the band came off to me as being somewhat clueless and shady.


Man, I'm so glad I get most of my money upfront.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

No worries, my wife translated it for me, hehe. I live in Portugal since 4 years but I haven't managed to learn the language. Waaaaaay different from Swedish, and I haven't really had time to engage in it. Kind of sad...

Edit: I've put it out on some forums, I guess that's enough.

Dont worry man, even portuguese people can´t speak well their own language!lol Portuguese it´s also a hard language to learn.

You charged a $1000 to mix one song? Holy shit!!

I can def see from the point of the band. A $1000 in Portugal goes a long way.

And can see why both parties would have an issue with this problem.

Sorry to say but you dont know shit about Portugal. It is true we get miserable wages but the life here it´s not cheap. For what we receive it´s too fucking expensive. For example, the fuel here it´s more expensive than in Spain that is our neighbour. But in Spain they gain 2/3xs more money than us. Even a guitar or an amp is too expensive even more than in your country, I would bet on that.

I mean can't TGS realize that a band with less than 2000 friends in their myspace, won't be able to afford a pro producer?

Sorry to say again but this is a ridiculous speculation. Since when the number of friends means that you have purchasing power?:zombie:

 

[James Murphy]

Dandelium, joeMatthews, i'm sure neither of you guys, nor anyone else, will be surprised that i'm going to take Tore's side on this one. he definitely should have been more on top of his email and replied to their pricing inquiry, just as a matter of getting daily business done, BUT....

... having said that, they did go ahead and authorize him to start work, and it was safe for Tore to presume that the band were familiar with his CV and general pricing guidelines vis-a-vis his website, which lists his many label album credits and, most importantly in this case, the following quote: "As a very approximate "guideline", consider 250-350 EUR / working day."

after all, the band are the ones who contacted him, so they had to be aware of these guidelines (and if they weren't it's their own fault for not reading more closely before authorizing work to begin, irrespective of whether or not their email inquiry had met a response), and since one of the members apparently asked for many minor changes, all of which take some time to execute, it cannot be argued that the band could have reasonably expected to have been under some special, "unspoken" agreement that was in direct contrast to the posted general fee schedule.

Tore, stick to your guns... but perhaps tone down the rhetoric in your communications... softer language but just as firm in your stance. you don't want to appear to have been antagonistic should it go to mediation or if a lawsuit is brought. you also might consider as a last resort to offer a minor discount, say 20%, in order to expedite a resolution to the matter.

 

[thefyn]

Sorry to say but you dont know shit about Portugal. It is true we get miserable wages but the life here it´s not cheap. For what we receive it´s too fucking expensive. For example, the fuel here it´s more expensive than in Spain that is our neighbour. But in Spain they gain 2/3xs more money than us. Even a guitar or an amp is too expensive even more than in your country, I would bet on that.

Sorry to say again but this is a ridiculous speculation. Since when the number of friends means that you have purchasing power?:zombie:

I don't think it is ridiculous speculation that a band like this could not afford a thousand dollars a song to mix/master. Sounds like you are overstating stuff. I said I can see how both parties have a point.

If the band was speaking on this forum, I would be telling them they were punching over their weight.

I mean it turns out they couldn't afford it, so how is it ridiculous?