Money

[hyena]

the question of whether we should give money to beggars on the street is complex indeed, you're right.

on the one hand, when i see the old gypsies begging it's hard not to be moved.

on the other hand, i feel safer about the effects of my actions if i go volunteer at a homeless canteen or give money to the organization that runs it - as hitori said, there's a lot of beggars who see their activity as an alternative to working, which they would be capable of doing.

in cities with loads of north african beggars, as it happens in the north of italy, there's also the risk that giving them money could go finance terrorism.

 

[Tebus]

I generally feel that the monetary inequality in the world is a moral issue. It's a question of how much worse off are you willing to make yourself for the sake of others. There's always of fear of falling to the next level down. So at least with myself, i tend to give to the degree that I don't have too much of a risk of falling to the next level monetarily.

I definitely feel that I earn WAY too much money, but I'm in a line of business where everyone around me is so damn conscious of how much money they have and they always want more. And they're shocked when I say something like I gave a grand away to the tsunami disaster relief effort late last year, as if it's going to make any difference in the way I live. I just wish people would not be so damn greedy. I have an extremely unrealistic view of what I wish would happen in the world, where nothing we do would make ourselves better off, but where everything is done for the general good. But that's obviously impossible. I've never been a realistic person.

 

[plintus]

It's 2,000,000 $ for each and every human being on the planet (if to divide overall cash flow or whatever equivalent of money circulating).

It's 20.000.000 millionaires (with 1 mln and more) in the States.

Anyone can do it.

Now, where are my Ferrari keys?

 

[Human Desert]

wtf are you talking about? You can do something about it. Beat up rich people for being successful . Do you actually know any rich people living in a dream world? Every entrepeneur I've ever read about makes monthly charity donations of a size bigger than I'll probably ever make in a year. They are also intelligent people. You think people get money and become happy as a result? They don't. Having money is equal to having extreme responsibility, and because of views like yours it seems they can't live in contempt with their own success no matter what they do.

If you want to be furious, hold a grudge with the past, not with the present, as it's events of the past which have put third world countries in their place.

Jesus dude, calm down. Yes i do know rich people who do everything they've ever wanted to do because they've got the money for it.
I didn't say that all rich people in the world are selfish assholes. I said that it's wrong that some people drown in money while children are dying of hunger. Like Hitori mentioned the dude with the diamond tennis shoes. I meant people like that. And people like Britney Spears. They don't even deserve the money because they've got it by whoring themselves out and teaching bad habits to little girls who worship them.

@Idari: You watch Viva La Bam, so why don't you just shut the fuck up about the wrongness of rich assholes in their dreamworlds. Seems to me like you get comfort from watching a rich asshole's dreamworld.

Oh good god. That's the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a while. Just because i don't like the fact that the world is unfair i'm not supposed to watch a tv show that has a rich guy in it? If you think like that, then i wouldn't be able to watch TV at all, or listen to music. Some musicians are rich, so i can't listen to their music anymore? And i can't watch movies because the acters are rich? Please!

 

[King Chaos]

Please provide an example.

i can go work a shit job and get shit pay, or a good job and get good pay. because bill gates is a millionaire isnt changing that. You thick or something?

 

[Human Desert]

Gavin does not seem like himself in this thread..

 

[King Chaos]

Gavin does not seem like himself in this thread..

It was his phrasing. Like he can't feed himself or something. Examples wouldn't have even backed up the point I was making.

 

[hyena]

i actually concur with most of what gav said...

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

i can go work a shit job and get shit pay, or a good job and get good pay. because bill gates is a millionaire isnt changing that. You thick or something?

It was his phrasing. Like he can't feed himself or something. Examples wouldn't have even backed up the point I was making.

What I was after is that these people making a good pay over bad pay do have an effect in another person's economy, if only by paying a certain amount of taxes and providing the means for the state for social services and such. Which is why I think that the state should take a bigger role in shrinking the gap between the rich and the poor. So it's not that individuals exactly make a difference in one another's economy, it's just how the state "uses" them that does.
Of course individuals can make a difference otherwise, I strictly meant it in this case of getting paid more or getting paid less.

Oh good god. That's the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a while. Just because i don't like the fact that the world is unfair i'm not supposed to watch a tv show that has a rich guy in it? If you think like that, then i wouldn't be able to watch TV at all, or listen to music.

I apologize for the hostile tone, but in the light of your statement of rich assholes in their dream world's, you shouldn't watch TV shows with rich assholes in them because you're being one of the millions of sheep who keep them on the TV and doing so makes you seem like a hypocrite. If you ask me, you just shouldn't watch the shows because they're utter crap, but that hasn't got much to do with the thread.
You could quite safely watch TV, there are tons of programs left for you to explore without endangering your ideology on rich (assholish) people.
Music is bit of a different case I think. You can download the music of people who you do not ideologically support and still enjoy it without supporting them monetarily. There is a conflict if you like buying the CDs of bands whose music you like, I suppose. That's actually a very good proposition or whatever, because I can't come up with an answer on whether you should just buy the albums of rich people because you like/love the music or simply download it all and concentrate on buying the albums of smaller bands.
Anyway, who said that you can't watch movies with rich people in them? I thought we were talking about rich assholes. They aren't certainly all assholes. Still, like I said above, it is problematic. To me, anyway.
It seems to me like you just said what you said in your first post without thinking too much about the connections of it to your life. You saying that what I said was the most ridiculous thing you've heard in a while speaks volumes to me. But now that I thought about it, I think you getting so annoyed is because, haha, we don't share the opinion that Bam Margera is an asshole. You just think that he's rich. I don't mean that you should not watch or listen to anything with rich people in it. But honestly, where's the difference between Bam Margera, Britney Spears and the guy in diamond shoes?
Living up to your ideologies is oh so hard, which is why not many do it, I suppose.

And as far as I'm concerned when it comes to TV, music and movies, my personal enjoyment comes first and ideology second, although my ideologies do affect the enjoyment.

 

[Human Desert]

I apologize for the hostile tone, but in the light of your statement of rich assholes in their dream world's, you shouldn't watch TV shows with rich assholes in them because you're being one of the millions of sheep who keep them on the TV and doing so makes you seem like a hypocrite. If you ask me, you just shouldn't watch the shows because they're utter crap, but that hasn't got much to do with the thread.
You could quite safely watch TV, there are tons of programs left for you to explore without endangering your ideology on rich (assholish) people.
Music is bit of a different case I think. You can download the music of people who you do not ideologically support and still enjoy it without supporting them monetarily. There is a conflict if you like buying the CDs of bands whose music you like, I suppose. That's actually a very good proposition or whatever, because I can't come up with an answer on whether you should just buy the albums of rich people because you like/love the music or simply download it all and concentrate on buying the albums of smaller bands.
Anyway, who said that you can't watch movies with rich people in them? I thought we were talking about rich assholes. They aren't certainly all assholes. Still, like I said above, it is problematic. To me, anyway.
It seems to me like you just said what you said in your first post without thinking too much about the connections of it to your life. You saying that what I said was the most ridiculous thing you've heard in a while speaks volumes to me. But now that I thought about it, I think you getting so annoyed is because, haha, we don't share the opinion that Bam Margera is an asshole. You just think that he's rich. I don't mean that you should not watch or listen to anything with rich people in it. But honestly, where's the difference between Bam Margera, Britney Spears and the guy in diamond shoes?
Living up to your ideologies is oh so hard, which is why not many do it, I suppose.


And as far as I'm concerned when it comes to TV, music and movies, my personal enjoyment comes first and ideology second, although my ideologies do affect the enjoyment.

Actually i do think that Bam Margera is somewhat of an "asshole", because the way he uses his money is nearly the same as throwing the money into a garbage can. It does feel idiotic that he spends shitloads of money on, for example, fixing his parents' house because he breaks it like once a week. Still that doesn't stop me from watching the TV show. It's not like i'm a huge Bam Margera fan or something, i just like to watch the show instead of watching The Bold And The Beautiful or a Britney playback concert on another channel. I definitely don't support Bam Margera in any way. I admire his skating skills, but that's all.

It's true that not all acters are rich nor assholes. Some people are assholes even though they haven't got money, and some people are rich but not assholes. Lots of acters (and musicians etc.) give money for charity, which i think is a very good thing.
My point was that by watching some movies you give some people a chance to spend the money on themselves. If you buy a dvd with some shallow actress in it, she gets the money from it and has a new boobjob. Then again, if you buy a movie with someone else in it and he gives the money for charity, that's good. I just think there's a little conflict there.

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

I definitely don't support Bam Margera in any way. I admire his skating skills, but that's all.

You watch his show.
Maybe watch a documentary on the First World War instead of The Bold And The Beautiful or a Britney concert? Oh but I kid.

I really don't get how you manage to cram these two things into the same post:
"I definitely don't support Bam Margera in any way."
"My point was that by watching some movies you give some people a chance to spend the money on themselves."

But I agree with you in the latter and like you said, that's where the conflict happens. We both most probably like movies that rich people who spend their money foolishly act in, but I don't think that should stop us from liking the film. Again, if one really wants to stand by one's ideology, the, hah, right thing to do would be to download all those movies. Or just not watch them at all, but I don't see the point in that.

 

[Human Desert]

I really don't get how you manage to cram these two things into the same post:
"I definitely don't support Bam Margera in any way."
"My point was that by watching some movies you give some people a chance to spend the money on themselves."

I was talking about buying movies. Bam Margera doesn't get any money from me watching the show. I know he gets money because people watch the show, but millions of people would watch it even if i didn't. No one even knows whether i watch it or not.

 

[Taliesin]

millions of people would watch it even if i didn't. No one even knows whether i watch it or not.

And if millions of people thought like you? Without any connection to the discussion, it's invalid to say your share is meaningless compared to the rest so it doesnt matter what you do. You cant exclude yourself from morality by saying you dont matter anyway. That's just a freecard for everyone.