My first piano/strings ballad (Lasse reamp, Lots of outboard, Nebula saturation etc.)

Ermz

Ermz

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Apr 5, 2002
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Melbourne, Australia
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Hey guys,

First a thanks to Lasse for reamping the guitar solos on this one.

First mix of its type I've done. Main goal was to make everything large and warm, particularly when the choruses kick in:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Empty Strings 2.wav

mp3 version for those who don't like fidelity: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Empty Strings 2.mp3

This is the rough-mastered mix printed right from the mix session.

Since the piano/strings etc. are all sampled it was a battle to dull everything down, warm it and make it sound vibely, but I'm fairly happy with the end result. I think the Nebula tape saturation worked a treat here. I hope you dig.

You can find the artist here: http://www.myspace.com/memnoir

and here: http://www.memnoir.com/
 
The intro piano being out of time is distracting. I know it was probably done for effect, but it's just got a bad sense of push and pull to it. It's also the least convincing VSTi.

The vocals need more presence.

The mix really is a bit dull, even for this genre. The guitars could use a little more punch and sheen (Opeth-esque).

If you have the option, think about instead of using the piano to harmonize the main verse piano part, allowing another instrument to do it. The contrast would be nice.

The rest of the arrangement is great.

Realize also that 90% of the comments I make about your mix are nit-picking, considering the level they're at.
 
I'm actually not to fond of the piano sound. Sound too electric piano for my taste(but I guess it was sampled as you said). Other than that I enjoy the mix and the song! Sounds really pro to me.

Is this Memnoir? Wow he has really improved on his vocals if that's so. How is everthing working out for him?
 
Man, you wouldn't believe the EQ chain on the piano. About 9dB subtraction across a number of mid bands. I'd have used my own piano sound but the MIDI I was given didn't work so I had to roll with what was there. I wanted a full mid-rich piano sound, but it just got lost when the strings came in. So I sacrificed it a bit for the benefit of the whole mix, IMO anyway.

Thanks Greg. I agree the whole thing lacks presence, that would be due to the huge amount of tape saturation eating highs in there. That piano... those vocals... all about 10dB of high shelf at present. The reason the guitars dont have punch is because I had to LPF at 5khz so you didn't hear the insane BZZZZZT noise the DIs/reamps had. Agreed the out of time-ness is distracting, and the piano sound itself is a bit lacking. Unfortunately all things I thought about but did the best with that I could.

I was hoping that the mastered version, when it gets done would address the presence, since all it should really take is a global raise with a Massive Passive.

If you guys like I could put up the pre-production demo I was sent, so you can hear how these tracks originally sounded, hehe.

I'll get an mp3 up soon...
 
It's a bit too artificial for me. It's a good song, but with the VSTi's and the overtuning of the vocals it's just kinda lifeless.

I also think you need some more donuts in there XD the vocals are getting drowned out at points.
 
yeah, those DIs were noisy as fuck, not a big problem in the heavy songs, really apparent on this one though
->always check your ground lift switch when recording DIs!! (The band recorded these themselves, so Ermin is not to blame ;) ).

really digging the song and everything...vocals sit nicely, although I think they sund a bit too tuned in places (perhaps it's just my ears playing tricks on me though).
looking forward to hearing the heavy song
 
Cool, thanks for the feedback guys.

The heavy track should be coming soon. Still waiting on the finalized master.

The tuning thing became a matter of 'do I settle for out of tune or audibly tuned?' so I just rolled with it and graph moded most of the performance. Most end listeners can't hear auto-tune so no harm, no foul I thought.

Here's the pre-production version I was sent. It contains the sounds a lot closer to raw, so you can hear what was originally going on: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Empty Strings Pre-Prod.mp3

Hopefully it illustrates some of the choices made in the mix. Note that pre-prod version didn't have the fretless bass in it yet.. and maybe missing some other misc. stuff.

All things aside, this track is coming from someone who mostly did industrial/goth type rock, so I was quite astounded at his prowess at writing a serene song like this. I honestly think the outboard and rampant tape saturation was perfect. Really thankful to Plec for turning me onto the Nebula tape shit in the last month. I'm using it everywhere now. This song just needs that blanket of saturation IMO. Obviously it's a lot darker than just about everything I ever did, but it's pretty much equally dark, so a single sweet quality high shelf in mastering could remedy all of it. I thought I'd prefer that than to use some shitty ITB EQ to boost nasty artifacts and resonances.

Oh and Ola, yes this is Memnoir. Jeremy has been working hard at fleshing these songs out. I'm quite proud of him. He's come a long way in the last 2 years we've worked together. I've put a link in the OP for all you guys that want to hear more from the band.
 
Do you guys feel the vocals are low the whole way? I've literally volume ridden every single word, trying to get the verses up front, and sunk the choruses back for it to wash more into the arrangement. I honestly preferred the vibe a lot more this way. Plec mentioned the relatively low vocals too, but I can honestly hear them quite easily on this end. To me they don't seem to fight too much with anything, and are treated more as an instrument, rather than something stuck on top of the arrangement.

@syns: They're the R2R and Tape Booster programs.
 
I think the vocal level is good. Like the song (and mix) a lot :)

(only 1 minor complaint, I'd turn the first guitar solo up a little)
 
Ermz said:
Do you guys feel the vocals are low the whole way? I've literally volume ridden every single word, trying to get the verses up front, and sunk the choruses back for it to wash more into the arrangement. I honestly preferred the vibe a lot more this way. Plec mentioned the relatively low vocals too, but I can honestly hear them quite easily on this end. To me they don't seem to fight too much with anything, and are treated more as an instrument, rather than something stuck on top of the arrangement.

@syns: They're the R2R and Tape Booster programs.
Click to expand...

It's not so much that the vocals are too low.. it's literally the same thing as in that demo for whatever-outboard-EQ with the piano vs vocals deal. The vocals are plenty loud, but there's just no space for them with the piano.
 
Ermz said:
So you think the piano is fighting with the vox too much in the 2-4k range?
Click to expand...

Listening back again, the vocals are fine until the strings come in so it doesn't seem to be the piano. And I wouldn't have said 2-4k, I would have said more like 600-1.5khz, but you're going to be able to tell a lot easier than I am. Plus there's a ridiculous windstorm here atm so I'm struggling to hear XD
 
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