National Socialism in Music

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Jul 21, 2003
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There has been a well-documented explosion of National Socialist/fascist idealism expressed in music in recent years, most notably in the so-called National Socialist Black Metal (NSBM) and folk-noire/neo-folk movements. Even entrenched mainstream artists like Marilyn Manson and Rammstein have played around with Nazi iconography (much as David Bowie, Siouxsie and Banshees, The New Order and The Joy Division did in the late 70's and early 80's).

Much of this is predicated, of course, on the fact that National Socialist imagery and idealism still retains the capacity to shock and offend polite society, even in these postmodern times. Satan is so hokey these days that no one is afraid of him, but the swastika still stands as an eternal rebuke upon the failure of liberalism and democracy, and so still sends shudders down the spine of the herd.

Still, the continuing allure of National Socialism for musicians is that it, alone of the great ideological systems of the modern era, recognized the enduring power and value of art. Indeed, National Socialism was in large measure an attempt to make art of politics. This is the enduring philosophical achievement of National Socialism, the recasting of political ideology in terms of myth, culture and aesthetics rather than in purely economic and material terms. In this sense, it remains a potent influence today, particularly on the post-Marxist Left (though you'd never get any of them to admit their indebtedness to the Nazis).

What is unquestionable is the continuing power of National Socialist expression to elicit visceral reactions from those who come in contact with it. The moralizing and hand-wringing that inevitably result from any public discussion of National Socialist music serves to demonstrate why such music remains necessary.
 
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Planetary Eulogy said:
Much of this is predicated, of course, on the fact that National Socialist imagery and idealism still retains the capacity to shock and offend polite society, even in these postmodern times. Satan is so hokey these days that no one is afraid of him, but the swastika still stands as an eternal rebuke upon the failure of liberalism and democracy, and so still sends shudders down the spine of the herd.
Yes, Satan doesn't shock society, but Nazis do. :err:
 
Christie_fell said:
Yes, Satan doesn't shock society, but Nazis do. :err:

Exactly, Satan appears in society in many manifestations, yet hardly anybody cares. The Devil is acceptable, you can watch movies in which he is victorious, every teenager who hasn't adopted the thug subculture listens to music about him. No one believes in the influence of clandestine cults anymore, either. You can discuss Satan without overwrought condemnation and you're not likely to provoke scorn. National Socialism, on the other hand, is probably the greatest tabboo. You can't bring it up without prefacing your statement with how loathesome it is. Right-minded individuals of all ilks would be thrown into a frothy-mouthed frenzy. There is no comparison between the two when it comes to infuriating the masses.
 
Planetary Eulogy said:
There has been a well-documented explosion of National Socialist/fascist idealism expressed in music in recent years, most notably in the so-called National Socialist Black Metal (NSBM) and folk-noire/neo-folk movements. Even entrenched mainstream artists like Marilyn Manson and Rammstein have played around with Nazi iconography (much as David Bowie, Siouxsie and Banshees, The New Order and The Joy Division did in the late 70's and early 80's).

Much of this is predicated, of course, on the fact that National Socialist imagery and idealism still retains the capacity to shock and offend polite society, even in these postmodern times. Satan is so hokey these days that no one is afraid of him, but the swastika still stands as an eternal rebuke upon the failure of liberalism and democracy, and so still sends shudders down the spine of the herd.

Still, the continuing allure of National Socialism for musicians is that it, alone of the great ideological systems of the modern era, recognized the enduring power and value of art. Indeed, National Socialism was in large measure an attempt to make art of politics. This is the enduring philosophical achievement of National Socialism, the recasting of political ideology in terms of myth, culture and aesthetics rather than in purely economic and material terms. In this sense, it remains a potent influence today, particularly on the post-Marxist Left (though you'd never get any of them to admit their indebtedness to the Nazis).

What is unquestionable is the continuing power of National Socialist expression to elicit visceral reactions from those who come in contact with it. The moralizing and hand-wringing that inevitably result from any public discussion of National Socialist music serves to demonstrate why such music remains necessary.

Wow it's amazing how long you can write with so little to say.
 
well, here's my view on nazism. well, i'm against the belief of it, but that doesn't mean I hate those who believe in it. As long as they don't preach to me and shove their beliefs down my throat, I wouldn't mind being friends with them. I've met several neo-nazis who are cool people if you put their beliefs aside. and as for neo nazism in music, well i think some nazi bands have catchy music. i love skrewdriver and midgårds söner, doesn't mean i agree with them.
 
as long as Billy Milano and those right wing nutjobs are allowed to put their political views out there, I think it's only fair that the Socialists voice their political viewpoints. Whether they're respectful of other peoples' opinions or not is their choice I guess.
 
The sight of "Planetary Eulogy" under the title of the thread had me worried for a while, but I think some good points were made. I don't think I can disagree or comment any further on what he said. It doesn't seem like anyone else can either thus far.
 
a couple of things:

1. i dont understand why you appear on this board every few months to write fluffy essays about topics that have blatantly obvious roots - which seems to me like you think you we are all sitting back going 'wow. profound.'
2. obviously ns is going to stir more controversy than the devil. the reasons for this are (as aforementioned) fucking obvious.
- the swastika is an international symbol for racial hate and represents the genocide of the jews (despite its older cultural roots)
- for satan to be an issue, you must believe in god, not everyone does
- i can't think of any mass genocide that has been carried out in the name of satan, but you tend to notice when a few million people die under a particular flag/regime

and the list goes on .....
 
That's a pretty competent essay on NS in Metal. Most people on this board are Anti-Racist, so these responses are predictable.

"Indeed, National Socialism was in large measure an attempt to make art of politics."

This is of course the best way to spread your message. Boring facts won't interest anyone....but if you add a hip-hop beat, or in this case, doublebass drums and distorted guitars, it sticks.

Hey, more power to you. Everyone should have the guts to express themselves, no matter how stupid something may seem.
 
Planterary Eulogy said:
Satan is so hokey these days that no one is afraid of him,

True. Some through desensitization, others, through agnosticism, and others through knowledge of their supremacy over Satan through their respective faiths.

the swastika still stands as an eternal rebuke upon the failure of liberalism and democracy, and so still sends shudders down the spine of the herd.

Almost stopped reading here. It's true that the symbol incites fear. Why on Earth could that possibly be a good thing? Oh, right. You don't want to be part of the herd. That's not cool, dude. You've got to be different. Can't be a sheep. Even if the sheep are right.

Still, the continuing allure of National Socialism for musicians is that it, alone of the great ideological systems of the modern era, recognized the enduring power and value of art. Indeed, National Socialism was in large measure an attempt to make art of politics.

Romanticizing it is what it is. "NS stands for art!" I guess that makes it a fountainhead of achievement, right? Wrong. It is easy to twist things around so it seems as though it is virtuous to champion the ideology which holds art as the greatest triumph of mankind, but if it is at the expense of free will or equality (inherent, not forced; egalitarianism, not fascism), it is too great a cost. Fuck "art." I'll take my liberal capitalist society full of cheap entertainment.

misfit said:
- the swastika is an international symbol for racial hate and represents the genocide of the jews (despite its older cultural roots)
- for satan to be an issue, you must believe in god, not everyone does
- i can't think of any mass genocide that has been carried out in the name of satan, but you tend to notice when a few million people die under a particular flag/regime

.

Word, dawg. Word.

Demiurge said:
There is no comparison between the two when it comes to infuriating the masses.

For the reasons Misfit stated, not any romanticized notions of supremacy over the collective thought.
 
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