National Socialism in Music
- Thread starter Planetary Eulogy
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Planetary Eulogy said:
I don't know enough about that period of Russian history to argue about this.
Planetary Eulogy said:
Again I'm let down by my shallow knowledge of what happened but I do remember being taught in school that before the election the Nazis were adopting pretty much any political stance that they thought would help them get elected, so no one was really sure what they stood for until they took office. Add that to a huge middle class fear of the then popular communist party and the current government (was it the Weimar republic?) having proved themselves to be completely ineffectual in dealing with the depression/inflation crisis I'm sure anyone would agree that the charismatic, highly disciplined Nazi party did appear a good alternative to a lot of people. That doesn't mean that everyone made a conscious decision to choose one style of government over another, just that given the circumstances they picked what seemed like the stronger option. Also the Nazis provided the German people with a scapegoat to help reduce the feeling of national shame and resentment following WW1, and appealed to their injured pride and feelings of injustice. They were opportunistic and successful, but that doesnt prove the value of their beliefs.
Cythraul
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- Dec 10, 2003
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Planetary Eulogy said:
...but the nazi regime singled out the jews as one of the main groups responsible for their societal decay and then proceeded to systematically slaughter mass numbers of jews simply for being born jewish. The cold calculation of the crimes that the nazis commited is what offends people. So that you may understand this, I will iterate a point you seem to be missing: PEOPLE ARE OFFENDED WHEN GROUPS OF PEOPLE ARE SINGLED OUT AND MURDERED SIMPLY FOR BEING BORN INTO A CERTAIN RELIGION OR RACE (SOMETHING THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER). It's not that fucking hard to understand: traitors, exiles, and political criminals have a choice and some kind of ability to change their situation, namely to not be political criminals, etc. Jews cannot change the fact that they are Jews, effectively rendering them defenseless against a regime which seeks to slaughter them for that which they cannot change.
If you're only going to count the bodies, of course the Bolsheviks should envoke more negative feelings. They did, afterall, kill about 26 million people. And they certainly was as ruthless as anyone else, not hesitating to let women and children starve to death, but they did lack that cold, calculative and frightening way of thinking that the nazis excelled at.
Cythraul said:
The Nazi decision to exterminate the Jewish population was dictated by the calculus of war. Eastern European Jews represented the obvious nucleus of any resistance movement, and they sat astride the lines of resupply for the millions of German troops deep in Soviet Russia. Even a brief disruption of these supply lines would have doomed the better part of the Wehrmacht to complete destruction.
Besides, the majority of the people killed by Stalin weren't criminals or even political opponents. They were murdered simply so Stalin could take their land for the state. They had no choice either. Not to mention that the last great genocide of Stalin's regime was an attempt to exterminate the Jewish population of the Soviet Union. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were murdered, and the figure would have been in the millions if Stalin hadn't died before he could complete his Holocaust.
unknown
fuck ftagn
Kenneth R.
Cináed
when did you think that democracy was rooted in religion kmik?
i don't believe that is true. perhaps the current US version of democracy is, but then again i don't agree with what we've got going over here.
i don't believe that is true. perhaps the current US version of democracy is, but then again i don't agree with what we've got going over here.
Liberalism (the ideology underlying all modern democracies) was little more than the secularization of Protestant values.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
DE
vote bnp
Maybe people care more about Socialism / Nationalism / Nazism because those are all related to things that really happened... Sure you can listen to Dimmu Borgir sing songs about having tea time with Satan, but Satan never Slaughtered 30 million people, despite what many of us Metalheads like to sing about in songs where Satan eats babies and impales people. That shit's just fantasy, you know?
You might as well ask why people arent worked up about Sauron... I mean, shit hes gonna take over the world with that ring, right?
You might as well ask why people arent worked up about Sauron... I mean, shit hes gonna take over the world with that ring, right?
While its a cool idea, Socialism also has a habit of not working. Read 1984... how can people not be scared of that shit?
anonymousnick2001
World's Greatest Vocalist
I had a great response typed before my computer decided to kick me off the net. 
To summarize: Opinions will not be swayed in this thread, so I'll just provide a few blanket statements. Music has a place for any mindset. Only a fool would believe that NS is in any way superior to any other form of government, especially liberal democracy. I would state the opposite, but that would only be my opinion.
To summarize: Opinions will not be swayed in this thread, so I'll just provide a few blanket statements. Music has a place for any mindset. Only a fool would believe that NS is in any way superior to any other form of government, especially liberal democracy. I would state the opposite, but that would only be my opinion.
Mormagil
bring back the corvee
Freanan
Member
National socialism was not that popular because of what it was or because of the values it embraced or because it was art in politics, but because of what it claimed to be, because of the values it claimed to embrace and because in fact it was populism in politics. The ns-propagandists knew the right slogans to use the fears and wishes of the dumb masses - the same dumb masses that would fervently oppose everything that just slightly resembles some small part of national socialism if they had lived today. It was the same as with Bush: Propaganda did not talk about actual politics and aims, but it wallowed in easy to chant slogans that every idiot could understand.
In fact i think some of the values that ns-ideology claimed to embrace, like honor and courage, are important and it is disgusting how they are forgotten in modern society. I also do not think that parlamentary democracy is the perfect system (though imo it is one of the least faulty ones that have been used in modern times).
And i disagree about the common opinion that everybody was or should be equal.
Those are also the facts that make me interrested in old european myths and germanic lore, the facts that attract me to pagan and viking metal or sometimes nsbm.
But you should see that ns-ideology either did not really live up to the listed values to a greater extent than modern society does - for example Hitler was a traitor who had executed the heads of the SA, his most important helpers and his most faithfull followers in past times. I think this and many other examples really show that "germanic warrior values" were just used by the Nazis to get a greater voting-flock.
Anyway i agree with you that modern "political correctness" is ridiculous. The extreme opposition and fear towards everything that seems not "pc" is irrational.
And i think this irrationality is what makes nsbm that "popular" among people who are not panickally trying to be politically correct, even if they are against ns-ideology themselves.
In fact i think some of the values that ns-ideology claimed to embrace, like honor and courage, are important and it is disgusting how they are forgotten in modern society. I also do not think that parlamentary democracy is the perfect system (though imo it is one of the least faulty ones that have been used in modern times).
And i disagree about the common opinion that everybody was or should be equal.
Those are also the facts that make me interrested in old european myths and germanic lore, the facts that attract me to pagan and viking metal or sometimes nsbm.
But you should see that ns-ideology either did not really live up to the listed values to a greater extent than modern society does - for example Hitler was a traitor who had executed the heads of the SA, his most important helpers and his most faithfull followers in past times. I think this and many other examples really show that "germanic warrior values" were just used by the Nazis to get a greater voting-flock.
Anyway i agree with you that modern "political correctness" is ridiculous. The extreme opposition and fear towards everything that seems not "pc" is irrational.
And i think this irrationality is what makes nsbm that "popular" among people who are not panickally trying to be politically correct, even if they are against ns-ideology themselves.
Ifurin said:
uh i've been posting more recently than ever before. though only in the games forum and only in fighting game related threads pretty much.
Henrik Main
Hello
Planetary Eulogy said:
What kind of liberalism are you talking about in the first place? John Locke's liberalism, or the newer version of market liberalism? I'd quite like to see some proof that backs up your statement.
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