Nationalism and Homogeneity

[speed]

Many on this board--we regulars know--hold the view that a homogeneous culture, and corresponding homogeneous nationalistic government, is not only a good thing, but a solution to many contemporary problems. Immigration, intermixing with other cultures, multi-culturalism, amongst other things, are considered not only toxically harmful to our society, but will bring about the fall of our (Anglo-Saxon/American) society. But, are these ideas plausible, and is there a real American culture?

Indeed, a homogeneous culture, with a corresponding government to oversee and protect this culture, I believe works well, and is very rewarding to its citizens. The examples are numerous: most of continental Europe and Scandinavia, Japan, S. Korea, China, etc.

Yet, is there a homogeneous culture in America? Is there some archetype of American culture? I think there is. But do we really want to promote it?

To me, American culture is exemplified by the following character: a paunchy white man, with a protuberant belly created by a fondness for light beer, sugary colas and McFridays style chain-prepared food, who has two little round runts for children who spend their time staring at a computer screen or mastering multiple choice problems for their standardized tests; a slab of a wife (his second) whose idea of cooking is sprinkling shake and bake on skinless chicken breasts; a man whose only enjoyment in life outside of supporting his local football team (and how he supports them, with his officially licensed jerseys and baseball caps!), exists in the mastery of his work--whatever tedious and technical job it is --and then his resulting conversations about the ever exciting details of his work to his friends and family (of whom, he rarely talks about); he enjoys mowing the quarter acre lawn high atop a massive green riding mover, and when done, relaxes on a plush couch in front of his 50 inch plasma T.V. he bought on credit; he reads self help books to get ahead in life and satisfy his short -term and long term goals (which are to make more money); he goes to church almost every week to meet friends and make a good appearance but he's ashamed to say he's nevber had a spiritual experience; he's secretely obssessed with porn--especially nasty things his wife will never consent to; he only reads the sports and business sections of the newspaper, and generally agrees with the editorials and thinks them factually truthful and objective; he's planning a family vacation in his massive SUV down to manufactured fun--I mean Disneyworld; and with regards to politics, he votes every year for the same party.

I then ask, is such homogeneity and nationalism still attractive? Is this the culture we're trying to protect?

I say bring in the immigrants by the boatload! Yellow, red, mahogany or ebony; small, tall, muslim, or catholic; I dont care, but at least there's some variety!

 

[Blowtus]

you should work in tourism
great stuff.

 

[speed]

you should work in tourism
great stuff.

And sadly, sadly, this character is not really an exaggeration. For most of America outside of a few big cities, its true.

 

[Tabubua]

When cultures die off, its usually because of their inability to develop and evolve themselves... And the best way to develop and evolve your society is to reap the ideas of those who have lived in an environment where other ideas and values have been tried and tested.

Conservitism ( and nationalism) is a continually failing method of social organisation.

Besides, cultural mixing means we don't all end up inbreed!

 

[ExistEssence]

If this character--who is in some ways pitiful--does not impede your own goals, why be concerned with him and his "culture"?

 

[OldScratch]

Speaking for myself, Homogeneity is not necessarily a goal or end in itself, but primarily a means to that end. Thus, while this corpulent, couch-bound(and accurately depicted )creature(or his equally uninspiring hausfrau and tubby brood) may well represent a sort of cultural archetype, he(they) represents similarity only - rather than a similarity, or homogeneity that is in any way actually desirable. Indeed, the key reason demographic/cultural homogeneity is important to some of us, is that theoretically(and historically) it increases the probability of a stable, viable and unified society and culture. The less similar the mix, the less likely a stable, harmoneous, and culturally congruous society will develop or thrive.

It is only in recent history that this idea(ideal) has been so challenged and demonized. To desire homogeneous unity is not to condemn or belittle others; nor is this about "hate" or "supremacy." It may be about superiority though, insofar as the individual desirability of one culture over another. Again, this doesn't render one "better" than another, only preferable to another.

It seems fairly cynical to me to suggest that a nation import aliens "by the boatload," based largely upon an unseemly caricature, itself born of a rotting, disjointed multi-culture...to improve said culture! This vile being didn't represent America when indeed America was a largely homogeneous nation. Nay, this vulgarian is the bastard-child of the New America. An America that is more concerned with "Celebrating Diversity" than celebrating actual achievement; with sensitivity over sensibility; with equality of outcome versus equality of opportunity; with a decades-long, media-fueled, government-sanctioned propaganda campaign that demands "inclusion" and "tolerance" of the minority, while it decrys Nationalism or Homogeneity on the part of the ever dwindling majority as the gravest of moral transgressions! Couple all this with various other aspects of advanced culture-rot, and surely we cannot be surprised that our pathetic beer-swilling, porn-addicted friend is the way he is and that his type is legion.

Indeed though, a final question remains...Is there any reason to believe that a multi-cultural society will be an improvement or not be every bit as loathsome?

 

[Blowtus]

Indeed though, a final question remains...Is there any reason to believe that a multi-cultural society will be an improvement or not be every bit as loathsome?

More rapid questioning of base values, more perspective, more impetus to develop understanding - long term development at the expense of short term turmoil.

 

[OldScratch]

More rapid questioning of base values, more perspective, more impetus to develop understanding - long term development at the expense of short term turmoil.

Which presumably troublesome "base value" exactly, will a large-scale infux of third world peoples call into question?"
And what increased perspective that is measureable or meaningful in any way to the host population, is gained in a multi-culti society that cannot be gained otherwise(through technology, travel, etc)? Of what tangible value is that perspective anyway?
Understanding? Good heavens - what does that mean? Shall we assume a largely homogeneous nation such as Norway is suffering from a terrible lack of "understanding," cruelly denied them by their lack of social diversity?(This in the land with the highest standard of living in the world?)

I must confess, I have no earthly idea what the last part is intended to convey, thus I cannot comment thereon. Perhaps you can expound upon that, if you don't mind.

 

[Blowtus]

Just visions of a better world Quite potentially all entirely invalid, I was positing those points more as possibilities to consider than as well researched facts, which seem a little scarce and hard to seperate from many other elements in the discussion of homogeneity...

I look at it from the perspective of understanding having intrinsic value, and more viewpoints assisting the development of such understanding. You may be entirely right that such understanding is gained just as, or more, successfully when cultures maintain their seperation. Perhaps it also depends on the 'quality' of the culture in question, as to whether benefit would be found. Personally, if some form of cultural seperation was shown to be 'best' I would find more value in a seperation (on a state, or even community level) based on social ideals and laws, than simple genetics.

 

[speed]

Speaking for myself, Homogeneity is not necessarily a goal or end in itself, but primarily a means to that end. Thus, while this corpulent, couch-bound(and accurately depicted )creature(or his equally uninspiring hausfrau and tubby brood) may well represent a sort of cultural archetype, he(they) represents similarity only - rather than a similarity, or homogeneity that is in any way actually desirable. Indeed, the key reason demographic/cultural homogeneity is important to some of us, is that theoretically(and historically) it increases the probability of a stable, viable and unified society and culture. The less similar the mix, the less likely a stable, harmoneous, and culturally congruous society will develop or thrive.

It is only in recent history that this idea(ideal) has been so challenged and demonized. To desire homogeneous unity is not to condemn or belittle others; nor is this about "hate" or "supremacy." It may be about superiority though, insofar as the individual desirability of one culture over another. Again, this doesn't render one "better" than another, only preferable to another.

It seems fairly cynical to me to suggest that a nation import aliens "by the boatload," based largely upon an unseemly caricature, itself born of a rotting, disjointed multi-culture...to improve said culture! This vile being didn't represent America when indeed America was a largely homogeneous nation. Nay, this vulgarian is the bastard-child of the New America. An America that is more concerned with "Celebrating Diversity" than celebrating actual achievement; with sensitivity over sensibility; with equality of outcome versus equality of opportunity; with a decades-long, media-fueled, government-sanctioned propaganda campaign that demands "inclusion" and "tolerance" of the minority, while it decrys Nationalism or Homogeneity on the part of the ever dwindling majority as the gravest of moral transgressions! Couple all this with various other aspects of advanced culture-rot, and surely we cannot be surprised that our pathetic beer-swilling, porn-addicted friend is the way he is and that his type is legion.

Indeed though, a final question remains...Is there any reason to believe that a multi-cultural society will be an improvement or not be every bit as loathsome?

Oh come now, its parody. I obviously am mocking both positions. When you write such a thing--and with my bizarre sense of humor--there's alot of ridiculousness and ambiguity.

 

[OldScratch]

Oh come now, its parody. I obviously am mocking both positions. When you write such a thing--and with my bizarre sense of humor--there's alot of ridiculousness and ambiguity.

What with America being something of a cartoon come to life, I reckon it isn't always so easy to recognize parody...or just a pathetically accurate if humorous, send-up of one of those leading cartoon characters! Then again, maybe I'm just becoming a humorless old curmudgeon:Smug:
Well, since I would likely be one of the mocked...evidently the joke really is on me...

 

[Narziss]

I say bring in the immigrants by the boatload! Yellow, red, mahogany or ebony; small, tall, muslim, or catholic; I dont care, but at least there's some variety!

Dear speed,

I don't understand your purpose in mocking the present victims of degenerate, spectacular Capitalist culture. Do you seriously imagine that all those alien races invading us will somehow prove better exemplars of Western Civilisation than we?

Nor, do I understand how pointing out the present condition of much of the masses in any way justifies genocide against the white race by supporting this invasion.

When the white race goes, Western Civilisation goes with it! If you're fine with that, you're more degenerate than those pasty-faced fatsos you mock.

Narziss, rc
s t o r m f r o n t.org/forum/showthread.php?p=3567127#post3567127

P.S.
Yes, Virginia, there is more to saving the West than focussing on the race issue...but, the West will never be saved without accounting for it.

 

[speed]

Dear speed,

I don't understand your purpose in mocking the present victims of degenerate, spectacular Capitalist culture. Do you seriously imagine that all those alien races invading us will somehow prove better exemplars of Western Civilisation than we?

Nor, do I understand how pointing out the present condition of much of the masses in any way justifies genocide against the white race by supporting this invasion.

When the white race goes, Western Civilisation goes with it! If you're fine with that, you're more degenerate than those pasty-faced fatsos you mock.

Narziss, rc
s t o r m f r o n t.org/forum/showthread.php?p=3567127#post3567127

P.S.
Yes, Virginia, there is more to saving the West than focussing on the race issue...but, the West will never be saved without accounting for it.

Well as apparently many do not have a sense of humor, I will pose some questions to you. First, what is American culture, and what are its strengths? Second, why are all those doctors and engineers, construction workers and orange pickers bad for our economy and American culture? Third, how can one even successfully argue there is a American culture, when American culture by its very nature, is a mish mash and hodgepodge of a variety of different cultures that have somehow congealed under the aegis and banner of the almighty dollar and the dream of a middle class life? Fourth, if there is a "American" culture we can build around, will you accept it, despite its startling closeness to the character I described? Wont it need quite a bit of change?

 

[Norsemaiden]

There has never been an American culture (with the exception of the Native Indian culture and that of the Solutreans from Europe who preceded that) because the US is such a young country. The present modern culture is vividly exemplified by Speed's description of an American man.

This is the very culture that is being exported all over the world, destroying and absorbing other cultures into a monoculture. It will one day fail, due to its inherent unsustainability, and be replaced by whichever ideology at the time is the strongest and most brutal. At the moment, Islam is locking horns with it, but if the Islamic nations can be seduced by the Hollywood/MacDonalds/Crispy Creme Donut monoculture, just as so many European countries already have been (the French perhaps putting up the most noticable resistance, but yet failing) then perhaps it could encompass the entire global population. How long before Speed's typical American is identical in his habits to the average Chinese, Iranian, etc?

This is what the "Project for the New American Century" must be aiming for.

 

[speed]

There has never been an American culture (with the exception of the Native Indian culture and that of the Solutreans from Europe who preceded that) because the US is such a young country. The present modern culture is vividly exemplified by Speed's description of an American man.

This is the very culture that is being exported all over the world, destroying and absorbing other cultures into a monoculture. It will one day fail, due to its inherent unsustainability, and be replaced by whichever ideology at the time is the strongest and most brutal. At the moment, Islam is locking horns with it, but if the Islamic nations can be seduced by the Hollywood/MacDonalds/Crispy Creme Donut monoculture, just as so many European countries already have been (the French perhaps putting up the most noticable resistance, but yet failing) then perhaps it could encompass the entire global population. How long before Speed's typical American is identical in his habits to the average Chinese, Iranian, etc?

This is what the "Project for the New American Century" must be aiming for.

Bless you, you intelligent English lass!

 

[Narziss]

Dear speed,

I've had my sense of humour surgically removed and placed in cryogenic storage for a future time when it can be revived and live a full life.

American culture per se is best exemplified by Edgar Allen Poe, a patriot of the first order who worked to develop American literature. For my part, I work within this tradition in my own poetry and take August Dupin as a sextant whilst I am out to sea. There are other American literary greats, like Hawthorne, and grunts, like Clemens, who combine to form the beginnings of a North American tradition. This has, however, been under attack by the pro-oligarchal forces from the beginning, the same tendencies that ensure that no one understands Shakespeare, that we must have “art for art’s sake,” and that the modern counterculture cum Capitalist pseudoculture that you describe is perceived as constituting “American culture” when little could be further from the truth.

American culture’s greatest strength derives from America as the greatest country on Earth, by virtue of its revolutionary founding documents, the foremost principle being that of the General Welfare declaiming that the government exists for the people and not vice versa. America’s tradition is one of defending its vast potential, the bulk of which has hitherto been expressed, or needed to be expressed, by its population absorbing the culture of classical humanism without which the American experiment could not have come about. To accuse America of having no culture is to beg the question of when were the American people ever allowed to become properly educated? Europe has had six hundred years of accumulating genius which it can lay claim to – America arrived at the fag-end of Modern history and has been tilting into the windmills of corruption from day one, much to the delight of its British adversaries.

That we are so pathetic as to “need” to steal doctors, engineers, construction workers, and orange pickers from alien countries, rather than educating them ourselves is little less insane than the assertion that we “need” to import people to compensate for our own suicidal birthrate. Any healthy country can provide incentives to its own people to breed more children! This is nothing but a ploy by the enemies of the West – by that I mean traitors, above all – to destroy the culture by destroying the white race. Once we are marginalised, any hope of reviving the ideas of those “evil dead white men” will be gone forever, and we will truly be in a Dark Age.

Delve into history a touch, mate, and you’ll find that every culture is a “mish mash and hodgepodge of a variety of different cultures” Think England is one culture? Germany? Ha! Nothing but flux and change, and, yet, there they are, and, thus, there is America. Many white subraces melded to form the American subrace, and they all contributed to establishing the uniquely American culture. This has, in turn, been augmented by black culture, such as it is, chiefly best expressed in the Negro Spiritual as developed by Dvorak out of the old slave songs, and by other non-white contributions as well.

Though, I should be at pains to express: there is only one Culture in all the world, that matter a damn: Classical Humanist culture, of which any truthful idea from any time and place is a part. All other cultures are, compared to it, subcultures, national cultures, of which American stands alongside.

America is in a unique position as being the countercultural leader. Rolling Stones, Hollywood, this is not “culture,” this is counterculture, dating back to the 1965 “British invasion” of the rock-drugs-sex counterculture. It has been with most of us from birth and so we blindly accept that it is “culture.” The hippies got co-opted by the logic of Capital and this turned into the pseudoculture we see exported around the world, titillating peoples everywhere with colours and sex, for the sake of fellating the money out of their wallets and replacing all possibility of cultural resistance with a hapless, hopeless assumption that “American culture” doesn’t and can’t exist, tricking the goodhearted but empty-headed enemies of Capitalism into attacking America itself, rather than fighting for the real America which has sunk into a kind of demonic possession by the Anglo-American Empire.

This is a great opportunity for us, because all this counterculture is essentially people “doing their own thing” exploring the shallow reaches of their minds and preferences in a huge, uncontrolled hedonistic experiment. The advantage is that we have come up with a huge stock of myths that are widely understood and appreciated, something not seen on this scale since the myth-cycles of ancient Greece, in terms of their potential to religiously interface with society. The American myth of the West is one powerful current that is awaiting rebirth. There are more; Metal is one, Horror is another. Everything can prove useful, ultimately. It’s just a matter of organising it all and subsuming it under Reason, meaning as a counterpoint to Classical Humanism.

That is an American culture that excites me.

Narziss, rc
s t o r m f r o n t.org/forum/showthread.php?p=3567127#post3567127

 

[cryosteel]

This is the very culture that is being exported all over the world, destroying and absorbing other cultures into a monoculture.

It can also be noted that the concepts of borderless, cultureless world marketplace countries, ceaseless mass migration of homelandless permanently poor labor classes, multiculturalism and "celebrating diversity" are all heavily promoted by the same culprits.

It has in fact come down to overwhelming military aggression, on the grounds of promoting democracy and freedom, against nations who resist one or more of the above items.

We witness no less than a weird form of imperialism that fits a modern rather than a classical age. No longer aristocrats and emperors, rather middlemen and owners are engaged in this conquest.

 

[speed]

It can also be noted that the concepts of borderless, cultureless world marketplace countries, ceaseless mass migration of homelandless permanently poor labor classes, multiculturalism and "celebrating diversity" are all heavily promoted by the same culprits.

It has in fact come down to overwhelming military aggression, on the grounds of promoting democracy and freedom, against nations who resist one or more of the above items.

We witness no less than a weird form of imperialism that fits a modern rather than a classical age. No longer aristocrats and emperors, rather middlemen and owners are engaged in this conquest.

However, if you remember your Roman History, during the later stages of the Republic, Rome went to war a number of times to protect its merchant class' economic interests--I know the war with Jugurtha was fought for this reason, and I believe most of the special commands of Marius and Sulla in the East, Spain, North Africa, were fought essentially for the merchants (I believe the equestrian class--Derek can correct me).

Perhaps we're reliving those years?

 

[cryosteel]

History seems repetitious or cyclic enough to refute linear modern assumptions of progress. Modern progress assumptions are 1) materialist: e.g. we have better information systems than before or 2) humanist: people are treated better than before. Yet, if we find ourselves repeating patterns of history that have ended with failure in the past, where is our existential progress? The monotheist religions, depending on which branch, are as passive or as aggressive, or both at once, as the time of their creation. What spiritual progress have we seen since antiquity? In the midst of celebrating diversity, what cultural progress, aside from crass consumerism, has flourished?

 

[The_philosopher]

A salute for everyone in this thread, by the following, i'd like to express my point of view about this whole "homogeneity" thing.

Firs of all, for the american case, it's completely and utterly stupid to be a white nationalist in the U.S.A, "the white american identity" is just a stupid trial to be like their european "white brothers".
The U.S.A built its identity from the mixing of various cultures (italian, irish, british, scottish, indian, asian, african,...) and it's beautiful as itis, all cultures live together in harmony and mixing races will not destroy cultures nor society as it's feared by most nationalists.

For example let me introduce you to a perfect example of racial and cultural diversity, Morroco, my country. In some regions there exists families that are completely white (aryan as others say), but still they are morrocans, we have numerous kinds of berbers (souss,amazighs, rifis) who live in different parts of morocco ,have different skin colors (from black to white), speak different dialects of the berber language, and there are those who are from arab descent,iberic descent, and subsharian descent, but still all those cultures mixed and it gave a particular diversity to the panorama of this country, but this diversity created a unique "Morrocan identity" that every "ethnie" can relate to. For the religious aspect ( because some nationalists link religion and race) islam is the dominant religion but there's a huge morrocan jewish community that can still relate to the "Morrocan identity".

If we apply nationalis in this country it would be a complete mess, ans nonsense too, see my point?

Now for the "white nationalists" that try to separate the white race from the world fearing it's "extinction" and try to keep racial homogeneity, it's not very healthy, recall what happn when members of the same family breeds (i mean cousins) the results may be harmful for the next generation(genetic problems, in french "mongolisme"), if we expand that to the whole aryan nation to a long term it would be kinda the same result, well i suppose, i'm just extrapolating.

To be proud of your culture and roots is good, but as the human nature tends to excess, "over-the-limit" pride can be dangerous, renember that. I'm proud of my berber roots, but still i don't mind marry a different "race" (what a silly word, we are but one and only human race) and having children that will have both cultures to relate to and still be proud of it.

The end. Thanks for reading (or not)