need more music like Savatage

[SavaNanny]

Someday, I'd like to see most of these Savatage "fans" fess up and admit it.....you're not really fans of Savatage, you're fans of Paul O'Neill. Granted, he took part in Hall of the Mountain King, but to me, it's been all downhill since then. Gone was the traditional metal and say "hello!" to Broadway metal. I know, I know......HERESY!!!!!

I know you probably had a point in your own mind, and I doubt you meant to be combative, but I personally find it offensive when someone implies that they know what I like better than I do. If I say I am a Savatage "fan", take my word for it. What constitutes a "fan"? Is it what YOU think I like, or could it possibly be what I say I like? Did Paul O'Neill play all the instruments on these various albums? Since the answer is obviously NO, then perhaps some of us are fans of the individual musicians and not just the lyrics? And can a true Savatage fan ALSO be a fan of Broadway Metal or is that too much of a stretch? See, the thing is, I am a fan of LOTS of music styles, so a band that has evolved through the years, is not always a negative thing for me.
Not exactly Heresy, but a bit irritating, particularly since this thread was started by a Savatage fan.

Peace out,
Ma

 

[booB]

I know you probably had a point in your own mind, and I doubt you meant to be combative, but I personally find it offensive when someone implies that they know what I like better than I do. If I say I am a Savatage "fan", take my word for it. What constitutes a "fan"? Is it what YOU think I like, or could it possibly be what I say I like? Did Paul O'Neill play all the instruments on these various albums? Since the answer is obviously NO, then perhaps some of us are fans of the individual musicians and not just the lyrics? And can a true Savatage fan ALSO be a fan of Broadway Metal or is that too much of a stretch? See, the thing is, I am a fan of LOTS of music styles, so a band that has evolved through the years, is not always a negative thing for me.
Not exactly Heresy, but a bit irritating, particularly since this thread was started by a Savatage fan.

Peace out,
Ma

Mom,

How DARE you read my mind and then say exactly what I was thinking before I have time to type it myself??? HOW DARE YOU?

Oh, wait, there's more... don't forget to tell him the part about how Jon Oliva's Pain sounds closer to the O'Neill-era Savatage material than the pre-HOTMK material, even though O'Neill has absolutely nothing to do with Pain, and how this proves that latter-era Savatage was not 100% O'Neill -- not even close...

 

[Perditions Ghost]

I'd like to third (and fourth, and fifth) the Morgana Lefay recommendation.

Not rock opera really, but they rule so it's alright

 

[DarkOne]

Perhaps another fanboy reaction, but Sav is my top band, and I couldn't find an exact comparison either. There are bands with the same complexity, or the same harmonies, or as good songwriting, or bands that can play fast and slow music equally well, but I haven't found another band that really puts all of those aspects together.

Steve in Philly

 

[metalmusic]

Oh, wait, there's more... don't forget to tell him the part about how Jon Oliva's Pain sounds closer to the O'Neill-era Savatage material than the pre-HOTMK material, even though O'Neill has absolutely nothing to do with Pain, and how this proves that latter-era Savatage was not 100% O'Neill -- not even close...

Thank you for pointing that out!!! I get so sick of "Paul saved Savatage" (yes, I know Jon has said it himself). The influence of both sides is what made it great!
I am a much bigger fan of Jon's than Paul's, and though I will never dispute Paul's influence, it angers me when people underestimate Jon's!

But anyway, thanks for the suggestions here, as I too would love to find something similar to listen to-though nothing is going to top the original!

 

[edgeofthorns]

I get so sick of "Paul saved Savatage" (yes, I know Jon has said it himself).

Well, I'm not sure how else to say it or to look at it.:Smug:

The influence of both sides is what made it great!

This is very accurate, so I'm not sure why you're "sick" of the other statement. They work together as a team very well. I don't recall anyone on this board ever giving anything but praise to Jon Oliva's song writing abilities.

~Brian~

 

[LunaTEKKE]

I agree with the posts recommending Ayreon's "The Human Equation" and TSO's "Beethoven's Last Night". (It sounded like maybe you hadn't heard that one, as you mentoned that TSO was seasonal). "Occulus Infernum" from Van Helsing's Curse is a great recommendation as well -- although there are no vocals on that one.

I highly recommend Nikolo Kotzev's Nostradamus CD. (Which was released years before Judas Priest claimed to be "breaking new ground" with their version...) I think this is exactly what you are looking for.

http://www.nostramusic.com/

Also check out "Tyranny" and "Room V" from Shadow Gallery. While not exactly a "rock opera", the CDs tell a continuous story, and the music is amazing. (With an occasional classical instrument thrown in for good measure).

You might also like the epic track "The Odyssey" from Symphony X. It's like a mini-rock opera.

 

[Comic Book Dude]

I know you probably had a point in your own mind, and I doubt you meant to be combative, but I personally find it offensive when someone implies that they know what I like better than I do. If I say I am a Savatage "fan", take my word for it. What constitutes a "fan"? Is it what YOU think I like, or could it possibly be what I say I like? Did Paul O'Neill play all the instruments on these various albums? Since the answer is obviously NO, then perhaps some of us are fans of the individual musicians and not just the lyrics? And can a true Savatage fan ALSO be a fan of Broadway Metal or is that too much of a stretch? See, the thing is, I am a fan of LOTS of music styles, so a band that has evolved through the years, is not always a negative thing for me.
Not exactly Heresy, but a bit irritating, particularly since this thread was started by a Savatage fan.

Peace out,
Ma

Ummmm...sorry "Ma", but if you're "offended" by what I said, oh well. I did mention in my previous post that it was MY personal taste. I also dig many music styles, and enjoy hearing bands evolve...I just didn't care for where Savatage evolved to, and I think that Paul O'Neill had a large hand in that process. Metal music is a strong art form which brings along with it strong opinions.....I won't apologize for expressing my opinion.

 

[SavaNanny]

Ummmm...sorry "Ma", but if you're "offended" by what I said, oh well. I did mention in my previous post that it was MY personal taste. I also dig many music styles, and enjoy hearing bands evolve...I just didn't care for where Savatage evolved to, and I think that Paul O'Neill had a large hand in that process. Metal music is a strong art form which brings along with it strong opinions.....I won't apologize for expressing my opinion.

I did not question your opinion or your right to express it, I simply said that your statement:

Someday, I'd like to see most of these Savatage "fans" fess up and admit it.....you're not really fans of Savatage, you're fans of Paul O'Neill
is offensive to me. I am a long time Savatage fan, and you are wrong about me being just a Paul O'Neill fan.

So if you think everything after Hall is sub par, why did you continue to buy and listen?

I could care less if you apologize or not, I did not expect one.

 

[SavaNanny]

Mom,

How DARE you read my mind and then say exactly what I was thinking before I have time to type it myself??? HOW DARE YOU?

Oh, wait, there's more... don't forget to tell him the part about how Jon Oliva's Pain sounds closer to the O'Neill-era Savatage material than the pre-HOTMK material, even though O'Neill has absolutely nothing to do with Pain, and how this proves that latter-era Savatage was not 100% O'Neill -- not even close...

Haha, excellent points
Thanks,
Ma

 

[Cheiron]

Alien Force. Its great. Hard to find.

http://www.myspace.com/nameswallow

 

[Comic Book Dude]

I did not question your opinion or your right to express it, I simply said that your statement:

Someday, I'd like to see most of these Savatage "fans" fess up and admit it.....you're not really fans of Savatage, you're fans of Paul O'Neill
is offensive to me. I am a long time Savatage fan, and you are wrong about me being just a Paul O'Neill fan.

So if you think everything after Hall is sub par, why did you continue to buy and listen?

I could care less if you apologize or not, I did not expect one.

I LOVED this band...that is why I continued to buy their releases......hope springs eternal! I always hope that they (Jon) would tap into the old magic....that is why I like Dr. Butcher and Maniacal Renderings, they were throwbacks to the ol' Savatage I loved.
My, my , my.....you Paul O'Neill fans are touchy! (as Triumph the Insult Comedic Dog would say....."I keed..I keed!")

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

I am a total Savatage fanboy, and I've already spent years looking for bands that are comparable in quality and texture. I haven't found a lot of luck, but here are my recommendations:

Therion: If you can handle some operatic vocals, start here. Tons of crushing riffs, orchestral parts, lots of cool nuances to the music. Get anything from Theli (1996) on forward to modern day. Savatage is my favorite band, Therion is solidly in second.

Orphaned Land - Mabool: If you can handle some death metal vocals, this album is a masterpiece.

Missa Mercuria: Another great concept album with lots of different vocalists.

Wuthering Heights - Far from a Madding Crowd: Folky and a little speedy in parts, but great mix of melody and heaviness

Vanden Plas - Christ O: I think all Savatage fans like Vanden Plas at least a little bit.

Also, in the hard rock vein more than metal...

Nikolo Kotzev's Nostradamus and Gary Hughes' Once and Future King parts 1 and 2.

 

[edgeofthorns]

Therion: If you can handle some operatic vocals, start here. Tons of crushing riffs, orchestral parts, lots of cool nuances to the music. Get anything from Theli (1996) on forward to modern day. Savatage is my favorite band, Therion is solidly in second.

I agree with this. Therion is one of the most interesting bands that I've come across in a long time.

Vanden Plas - Christ O: I think all Savatage fans like Vanden Plas at least a little bit.

This on the other hand bored me to tears. I owned it for awhile, due to all the hype, and just couldn't get into it.

~Brian~

 

[edgeofthorns]

that is why I like Dr. Butcher

I like the Doctor Butcher project, but that's simply what it was, a project. It's a fun listen, but still not as good as Sirens, Dungeons, or Power of the Night. I think it fell short for me simply because neither Criss Oliva or Paul O'Neill was involved in it.

My, my , my.....you Paul O'Neill fans are touchy! (as Triumph the Insult Comedic Dog would say....."I keed..I keed!")

At this point, I think you're simply wanting to be an ass...you're succeeding!

~Brian~

 

[Claus / Intromental]

At this point, I think you're simply wanting to be an ass...you're succeeding!

You give him way too much credit. You're implying he knows what he is talking about ....

 

[Comic Book Dude]

You give him way too much credit. You're implying he knows what he is talking about ....

Ouch! Boy oh boy.....maybe 2008 was a tough year and nobody has a sense of humor anymore? Anyhoo, I don't know.....around 25 years of listening to hard rock/metal and nearly 3000 cds.....gimme a little credit? I just have a differing opinion. Ah well.....it's a lonely road.

 

[metalmusic]

Well, I'm not sure how else to say it or to look at it.:Smug:



This is very accurate, so I'm not sure why you're "sick" of the other statement. They work together as a team very well. I don't recall anyone on this board ever giving anything but praise to Jon Oliva's song writing abilities.

~Brian~

I read boards other than this one, and that is where the whole "Paul is God" attitude can get a little old. I really haven't been on this board long, and I apologize if it sounded like I was putting down anyone here.

If you keep in mind, though, that unlike most Sava fans, I have almost no use for Wake of Magellan, well, I think that explains a lot!

Now, it's time to party. Have a great New Year everyone!

 

[TENTH DREAMER DECEIVER]

You got it Pontiac! Old 'Tage is better 'Tage to my ears.

I LOVED this band...that is why I continued to buy their releases......hope springs eternal! I always hope that they (Jon) would tap into the old magic....that is why I like Dr. Butcher and Maniacal Renderings, they were throwbacks to the ol' Savatage I loved.
My, my , my.....you Paul O'Neill fans are touchy! (as Triumph the Insult Comedic Dog would say....."I keed..I keed!")

 

[booB]

Ouch! Boy oh boy.....maybe 2008 was a tough year and nobody has a sense of humor anymore?

No, it's just that we're still waiting for you to say something funny.

Anyhoo, I don't know.....around 25 years of listening to hard rock/metal and nearly 3000 cds.....gimme a little credit? I just have a differing opinion.

Actually, no. You're mistaking that fact that you've been listening to hard rock/metal for 25 years and have nearly 3000 cds for the idea that you know more than anyone else here about music, and, consequently, you're trying to tell people what THEIR opinions are. It's called "being condescending". Also, you're confusing "opinions" with "uninformed statements". Your assertion that Paul O'Neill is entirely responsible for the later direction of Savatage -- and that anyone who enjoys the music is not a Savatage fan, but rather a Paul O'Neill fan -- is not an opinion, it is a misinformed statement -- or, as some of us like to call it, "bullshit".