New Borknagar and Mr. V

[NovembersDirge]

Hi! No insult taken I'm glad that you say what you feel and try to discuss stuff, it's the major reason for this forum. Talk about music/lyrics and related topics.

mr V

Well, Mr. V, I think your voice sounds great on the album. My issue is more about the mix on the album. I think what people are reacting to is that over time your voice has been mixed further and further back on your records and your vocals are more and more compressed. I'm not sure. But maybe there is a sense that the dynamism that you as a vocalist are capable of has been lessened on the newer material.

The goal of bringing everything up so high in the mix means that you end up with something that feels foggy, and they back your voice back a bit more than they should (in my humble opinion).

Anyway, the new Borknagar is definitely a grower. But, as I said in my review, your performance is fantastic as always but your vocals don't have the same kind of power because of the mix.

 

[Windvang]

@Winfvang, I like your music. Good work! I just bought a copy of Faelwa on itunes, too. Good Job!

Great!

 

[Elvina]

Hi! No insult taken I'm glad that you say what you feel and try to discuss stuff, it's the major reason for this forum. Talk about music/lyrics and related topics.

mr V

sweet!

and your vocals are more and more compressed. I'm not sure. But maybe there is a sense that the dynamism that you as a vocalist are capable of has been lessened on the newer material.

exactly.
It's been said many times now, and we all explain it differently, but many people seem to agree that the former singing style just sound much more majestic and impressive, and we miss that.

 

[NovembersDirge]

exactly.
It's been said many times now, and we all explain it differently, but many people seem to agree that the former singing style just sound much more majestic and impressive, and we miss that.

Right, so then what we're talking about is not that Mr. V has changed how he sings at all. It has more to do with what's called "compression". Basically, it's a process by which individuals take something that is loud and dynamic and squish it down to make it less dynamic.

This process is beign done in modern production in order to make things *loud*. Go back, without touching your volume button, and listen to a couple songs from every Dark Tranquillity record, or a great example is Iron Maiden (or even Borknagar). What you'll find is that overtime the volumes on the guitars and bass and stuff get louder and louder, at the same time as the drums start to lose something. In this case, as well, the vocals lose something.

That, at least, is my prognosis for this problem. It's not that Mr. V doesn't sound as good, its that his voice is being more and more compressed in order to be able to fill the frequency range to higher volume without making your speakers explode. It's what makes records sound so "thick" these days. But also it often times makes them sound muddy as well.

I am *not* a producer, I'm just a hobbiest so I might not be right about this. But that is what it sounds like to me and it would explain the tonal difference over the years.

 

[Windvang]

Right, so then what we're talking about is not that Mr. V has changed how he sings at all. It has more to do with what's called "compression". Basically, it's a process by which individuals take something that is loud and dynamic and squish it down to make it less dynamic.

This process is beign done in modern production in order to make things *loud*. Go back, without touching your volume button, and listen to a couple songs from every Dark Tranquillity record, or a great example is Iron Maiden (or even Borknagar). What you'll find is that overtime the volumes on the guitars and bass and stuff get louder and louder, at the same time as the drums start to lose something. In this case, as well, the vocals lose something.

That, at least, is my prognosis for this problem. It's not that Mr. V doesn't sound as good, its that his voice is being more and more compressed in order to be able to fill the frequency range to higher volume without making your speakers explode. It's what makes records sound so "thick" these days. But also it often times makes them sound muddy as well.

I am *not* a producer, I'm just a hobbiest so I might not be right about this. But that is what it sounds like to me and it would explain the tonal difference over the years.

Completely agree with you here!
I don't agree with Elvina. I don't miss the old singing style. I think both styles sounds great.

 

[NovembersDirge]

Completely agree with you here!
I don't agree with Elvina. I don't miss the old singing style. I think both styles sounds great.

I think he sounds great, but he doesn't sound as powerful and as clear IMO. That said, I can hardly complain about the vocals on the new album, I think they're great.

 

[Agah]

Right, so then what we're talking about is not that Mr. V has changed how he sings at all. It has more to do with what's called "compression". Basically, it's a process by which individuals take something that is loud and dynamic and squish it down to make it less dynamic.

This process is beign done in modern production in order to make things *loud*. Go back, without touching your volume button, and listen to a couple songs from every Dark Tranquillity record, or a great example is Iron Maiden (or even Borknagar). What you'll find is that overtime the volumes on the guitars and bass and stuff get louder and louder, at the same time as the drums start to lose something. In this case, as well, the vocals lose something.

That, at least, is my prognosis for this problem. It's not that Mr. V doesn't sound as good, its that his voice is being more and more compressed in order to be able to fill the frequency range to higher volume without making your speakers explode. It's what makes records sound so "thick" these days. But also it often times makes them sound muddy as well.

I am *not* a producer, I'm just a hobbiest so I might not be right about this. But that is what it sounds like to me and it would explain the tonal difference over the years.

A good recent example would be Metallica - Death Magnetic, there was a lot of outrage over the fact that it was extremely compressed.

 

[Elvina]

i cannot agree completely with you on that. I think what you say might be right, but only partly. There is more to it. He definitely did change something about his singing style, which later was also altered with those production effects you are talking about, too. I can hear the difference in singing very clearly. As i said in my review, there was at least one track in the past where he sang like that, The Inner Oceans Hypothesis from Epic album. Look at the Making of Epic video, there you can see exactly what i'm talking about:

Compare how he sings at 0:23 min, with how he sings at 0:32 min. I can clearly hear and see the difference in the way he sings it. Dunno, maybe it's just me, but i've been studying music and vocals for 7 year at music school and the difference in those 2 vocals here just strikes me as very obvious... But i also agree that the final version of this track sounds even more pushed by those production effects you've mentioned, and in the end you get that charismatic "jester"-like voice, or something. Which i just don't like at all!

 

[Gaunerin]

Didn't follow all the comments here and on the Bork forum all too close the last couple of days but it was enough to make me worry.....
Now after only two spins it's too early for any qualified comments in detail but it's safe to say that I don't feel disappointed with Universal. Feels good to listen to something new. Really cheered me up a bit, I'm not having the best of times atm. Thank you for the music

 

[Defiance]

Well, everybody is entitled to their opinion. I won't go into defending our vision and outcome of the album. Still; I think that this album needs a lot of spinns until it reveals itself to the listener. About the vocals I feel a bit concerned when people like the vocals on some tracks but toatally dislike it on others. But maybe it's just me? I think that the vocals are consistent throughout the album.

mr V

I do like the vocals on every track, I think it's great that you can do this über-black voices, but also some very high-pitched ones that sound marvelous. I thought that the vocal work, with the bass and keyboards, was one of the best things of the album.

 

[Shankao]

Hello!

I have finished my first Universal's listen, and the first impression is quite good, and I like mr. V work on harsh and clean vocals.

In some clean vocals, I percieve a new approach on some parts, but I think it's usual in every new mr. V's record. Always evolving and improving his vocal range.

@ Elvina, pay no attention to absurd comments, and please continue sharing with us what you have in your head.

Best from Spain.

 

[Qu Appelle]

@ Elvina, pay no attention to absurd comments, and please continue sharing with us what you have in your head.

Oh yes. I definitely agree with this!

 

[Elvina]

are you guys serious? i thought i'd turn it down a notch, don't want to stir the pot all the time

 

[NovembersDirge]

are you guys serious? i thought i'd turn it down a notch, don't want to stir the pot all the time

Well, I, for one, think you should SHUT THE HELL UP WITH YOUR STUPID OPINION!












Nah, it's cool. Seriously, I think that if people get really worked up because someone doesn't like something, it's kinda sad. Why should it be such a big deal? We all have opinions. I mean, you guys probably don't want to hear mine about Solens Rötter.

 

[Defiance]

Well, I, for one, think you should SHUT THE HELL UP WITH YOUR STUPID OPINION!












Nah, it's cool. Seriously, I think that if people get really worked up because someone doesn't like something, it's kinda sad. Why should it be such a big deal? We all have opinions. I mean, you guys probably don't want to hear mine about Solens Rötter.

Yeah, please keep it to yourself. Just as with Elvina, I don't really care.







One can think whatever one wants, and should not be greatly influence by the opinions of others. Even if I disagree with most of Elvina's comments about the new album (e.g. vocals), she can feel/think whatever she wants. That said,

That said, I think she should post some comments on the Bork forum, since apparently the thread is now 'moderated'. Do notice that we don't even have two pages of comments! That's in exactly five days, whilst with the other one there were three pages in two days. That says a lot, i.e. most of the posts were flaming, complaints, and useless criticisms. I can tell that a lot of people haven't posted on that thread (that means you Elvina! ), and to a certain point it's better that way. However, some more discussion would be nice.

 

[Elvina]

I mean, you guys probably don't want to hear mine about Solens Rötter.

omg that bad, really? i guess i don't...

ok, i lied, i actually went and checked your site for Solens Rötter review it's not there! *whew*

 

[Elvina]

That said, I think she should post some comments on the Bork forum, since apparently the thread is now 'moderated'. Do notice that we don't even have two pages of comments! That's in exactly five days, whilst with the other one there were three pages in two days. That says a lot, i.e. most of the posts were flaming, complaints, and useless criticisms. I can tell that a lot of people haven't posted on that thread (that means you Elvina! ), and to a certain point it's better that way. However, some more discussion would be nice.

who says that what i think is not flaming, complaints and useless criticisms or do you want me there as a bait for all the trve trol... err fans there? no seriously, i was taking a break of Bork forum. Besides, even if Andreas can understand, i'm afraid of Dave, because it seems he's a bit hot-tempered (just like me ) so he might just take it too personally... although i said nothing negative about him in my review so it should be fine... But we've been talking about Universal for a whole week now, i think all possible comments have been made already, and i don't want to keep chewing on the same things over and over again...

 

[Defiance]

who says that what i think is not flaming, complaints and useless criticisms or do you want me there as a bait for all the trve trol... err fans there? no seriously, i was taking a break of Bork forum. Besides, even if Andreas can understand, i'm afraid of Dave, because it seems he's a bit hot-tempered (just like me ) so he might just take it too personally... although i said nothing negative about him in my review so it should be fine... But we've been talking about Universal for a whole week now, i think all possible comments have been made already, and i don't want to keep chewing on the same things over and over again...

Haha 'a bit' hot tempered? And you haven't commented on the thread, so you haven't still chewed enough .

 

[NovembersDirge]

omg that bad, really? i guess i don't...

ok, i lied, i actually went and checked your site for Solens Rötter review it's not there! *whew*

Wasn't running the site yet.

Let me just say it wasn't my favorite. The only song that really did it for me on there at all was Spirar och Gror and I really like Från Materia till Ande as well.

It's relatively common that one loses the thread with certain artists from time to time. For me I had been really into the previous two records and Solens Rötter just hit me wrong, I think.

Though, I should shut my mouth since I run the Vintersorg fanspace on MySpace.

Of course, now I'm feeling guilty and giving it another listen..

 

[Defiance]

Wasn't running the site yet.

Let me just say it wasn't my favorite. The only song that really did it for me on there at all was Spirar och Gror and I really like Från Materia till Ande as well.

It's relatively common that one loses the thread with certain artists from time to time. For me I had been really into the previous two records and Solens Rötter just hit me wrong, I think.

Though, I should shut my mouth since I run the Vintersorg fanspace on MySpace.

Of course, now I'm feeling guilty and giving it another listen..

Ah hahahahaha .