New Borknagar and Mr. V

[lefay82]

i'm gonna take one week to read everything you wrote while my pc was broken!

 

[ErikSL]

Since this isn't the Bork forum, I will continue to focus on Mr. V's work. But I could talk much about, what I think, is a masterful production achievement.

In Worldwide, the chorus part right before he sings "the master...and the slave" , Mr V does such a beautiful change to falsetto that puts me in awe. It's definitely a goose bump moment on the album.

The phrasing and rhythm for the verse parts of Stir of Seasons are very creative. A Thousand Years To Come is filled with excellent work. My favorite vocal point on the album is Loci. It's such a cool song. The slow, dreary jam introduction as the vocal melodies slowly come into play, resulting in beautiful, almost orchestral-like chants and harmonies at the end. Mr V's voice is made for this type of unique song. With the album ending like that, if you have the bonus version, it feels very complete.

I think for Mr V's next album (Bork, Vintersorg, etc), I would love to seem him embrace a few old school tricks, with lots of chest voice. But being equally experimental with the head voice, falsetto parts, conflicting harmonies, and all that cool stuff.

 

[lefay82]

what can i say about new andreas' style is that at the beginning i cannot stand to it...i really missed the old voice.
but in time i've learnt to appreciate it....i think it's quite stupid (forgive me, i don't mean to be offensive) to only look back at the past...this is his new style and whether we like it or not, i don't think he will change it for our happyness
this new style is part of the whole path to his musical progression...and after some difficulties and after a quite long time i've accepted it.
you can share my point of view or not....that's ok....but usually don't like to complain about changing....i mean....i liked borknagar with garm, they were super, but garm is not in borknagar since years, so i don't see the point in missing him nowadays (or vortex, but i don't miss him )....borknagar have growed and changed a lot in the meanwhile and it's unthinkable to have that garm with this borknagar....so i see it as a natural evolution of the group.
if i woulnd't like andreas voice i probably will stop to listen to borknagar and not complain....

but still there are some point where i don't like andreas' voice. i cannot believe i'm the only one that has the weird impression he is terribly out of tune in abrasion tide's chorus?!?

 

[Allfader]

but still there are some point where i don't like andreas' voice. i cannot believe i'm the only one that has the weird impression he is terribly out of tune in abrasion tide's chorus?!?

About that, I said before that I don't like that chorus, but he's not out of tune. He just sound too forced and there's a 'legato' that sounds weird but not for the tuning, it's the slowness of the (compressed) crescendo.

I dunno why Mr V sings so much with head voice nowadays (or at least is what it seems). I sing a little too and I personally prefer to use my chest voice and just sometimes when it's required I switch to head voice, specially on folk/viking stuff.

 

[Elvina]

I dunno why Mr V sings so much with head voice nowadays (or at least is what it seems). I sing a little too and I personally prefer to use my chest voice and just sometimes when it's required I switch to head voice, specially on folk/viking stuff.

that's it! that's what i've been talking about all the time! I don't know if the head voice is the right term for it, i don't know what it's called in english by professional vocalists but you are here definitely talking about what i meant.

i agree with lefay about Abrasian Tide, i also mentioned that in my review. See, you are not the only one

about the natural artist progression, i can only hope that Andreas will quickly progress further on from this singing style to something new he hasn't tried yet. maybe it's going to sound absolutely breathtaking...

 

[lefay82]

About that, I said before that I don't like that chorus, but he's not out of tune. He just sound too forced and there's a 'legato' that sounds weird but not for the tuning, it's the slowness of the (compressed) crescendo.

I dunno why Mr V sings so much with head voice nowadays (or at least is what it seems). I sing a little too and I personally prefer to use my chest voice and just sometimes when it's required I switch to head voice, specially on folk/viking stuff.

i asked because some other people who listened to it had the same impression


regarding the previous post, i used the wrong word saying "stupid", i would have said "silly" but again similarity with italian have drove me out of rails
for us "stupido" (stupid) hasn't an offesive meaning when said to friends, and can be compared to "sciocco" (silly)

 

[Allfader]

that's it! that's what i've been talking about all the time! I don't know if the head voice is the right term for it, i don't know what it's called in english by professional vocalists but you are here definitely talking about what i meant.

It is, more or less.

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_voice

 

[Elvina]

It is, more or less.

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_voice

thank you, this is very interesting...

If we are talking about the terms, i don't think Mr.V has been using the head voice lately, because:

Resonances and registration aside, the term "head voice" is commonly used to mean "high notes that are not falsetto or strained". For example when Pavarotti or Stevie Wonder slides from chest voice to a high C5 in full, balanced voice, this is referred to as "head voice".
Beginning singers who have difficulty controlling their vocal break need to be taught to eliminate and/or control the physiological conditions associated with falsetto or strain, and "head voice" is a term used to describe this process.

I think Mr.V on the contrary has put too much strain on the vocals (still talking about Universal). Hmm according to the quote, this is not the head voice then?

 

[darcy]

As per my comments on the Borknagar forum, I'm not a big fan of the new record, for a number of reasons. In regards to this thread: there are parts where I think V's vocals rescue the track, and there are parts where I think they work against it. There's the one line in Reason, "now the canvas is all white"- it really turns me off, the way it's sung. It has this very pronounced nasal tone that is very hard to listen to. Aside from those moments of strain, I think it's largely the album's production overall working against V's vocal style.

I've spent the day listening to earlier Vintersorg & Borknagar to try to figure out what makes the difference. In regards to V's vocals, they sound easier and more "open" on previous works. I'm listening to Visions... right now (which is my favourite vocal performance of his) and it sounds effortless and clear, while on Universal it sounds very strained. I can hear that same nasal tone in either one, but it's not offensive to the ears in earlier cases, rather it's just a distinctive element of his voice. It also sounds like there are lots of effects on it on Universal, it's weird. Vintersorg has shown time & time again that his vocals are powerful and clear even in with lo-fi production techniques, so it's a shame to hear them so heavily processed. Or I'm just making things up in my head.

The grim vocals, of course, are very consistent I don't have any complaints about them.

Anywho. Congrats on getting the record out. Despite my complaints, I'm still looking forward to whatever comes next.


...

...

... existence!!!

 

[Defiance]

I'm 100% sure that this is Andreas best singing ever, congratulations!!!

 

[Helge-Uwe]

There's the one line in Reason, "now the canvas is all white"- it really turns me off, the way it's sung. It has this very pronounced nasal tone that is very hard to listen to.

I really don't get the point. He sung like that on Solens Rötter and on Cronian albums, so why start people now mocking on that?

I wasn't a big fan of this singing style either, but I think it works for Universal.

 

[lefay82]

I really don't get the point. He sung like that on Solens Rötter and on Cronian albums, so why start people now mocking on that?

I wasn't a big fan of this singing style either, but I think it works for Universal.

they probably expected a voice like in epic or empiricism.
but also origin was sung like that, and as you underlined also the last vintersorg's projects, so i don't know from where exactly those expectations are born

 

[Sigurðr]

I think Mr.V vocals are pretty cool in this new album, when i listened to havoc in first time i just feel all the energy in this music, the chorus is absolutely insane! Mr.V growls are very agressive, more than usual, and i like it very much. Im a HUGE vintersorg fan, i dont understand swedish but i always sing my fav songs even in swedish haha, you *Andreas* inspired me in every senses, in music and now in swedish back to the tracks haha, i read a lot of reviews and fans opinions and all of them write about the vocals, 'the clean vocals are too much cronian style' or something like that, but i do know, i think every musician pass through moments and change some details in his work, Mr.V is an artist and every album is a masterpiece and every album pass a diferent message with diferent ideas with them,so you cant do always the same vocal and the same chord in guitar, you need to change, borknagar is a vortex with all ideas and changes in the band members and i think they all agreed with the changes in this album, they know much better than us what fix perfect with their songs, they just feel the muse...well thats my opinion. Borknagar took a complex music style thats doesnt fix well with very simple arrangs or chords, you need to listen at least 100 times and every time you'll see the music changing in your head.

 

[Allfader]

i don't know from where exactly those expectations are born

“We are extremely satisfied with the result! The album turned out even better than we dared to hope for when starting this journey. There is an attitude, energy and nerve to this record that will appeal to the most primal side of man, yet there is complexity and atmosphere that will challenge the most sophisticated parts of mind. The album contains all the elements that made BORKNAGAR the band we are and we are firmly believe that this album will be a huge piece of candy for those who have followed the band through the years. This is by far the most complete album we have done to date- musically and productionwise- and we are right now just immensely eager to get the album out there!”

the new album will regain the musical forces that dominated the 4 first albums. So beware!

Finally, quoting Mr V loong time ago:

" I think that's the continuance in Borknagar: we're going to do very diverse albums. I think we're going to continue with this kind of diversity".

 

[Defiance]

they probably expected a voice like in epic or empiricism.
but also origin was sung like that, and as you underlined also the last vintersorg's projects, so i don't know from where exactly those expectations are born

Yes, that's true. But I think that, with the delay of the album, and the continuos praising of the band, some fans felt dissapointed with the release because they thought it was going to be perfect, just like the band said. Then again, as Lefay already said, Andreas already sung like that in Origin, so I don't understand the complaints about his voice.

 

[Elvina]

I really don't get the point. He sung like that on Solens Rötter and on Cronian albums, so why start people now mocking on that?

I wasn't a big fan of this singing style either, but I think it works for Universal.

they probably expected a voice like in epic or empiricism.
but also origin was sung like that, and as you underlined also the last vintersorg's projects, so i don't know from where exactly those expectations are born

Yes, that's true. But I think that, with the delay of the album, and the continuos praising of the band, some fans felt dissapointed with the release because they thought it was going to be perfect, just like the band said. Then again, as Lefay already said, Andreas already sung like that in Origin, so I don't understand the complaints about his voice.

guys will you please finally stop this conversation? why do you need to keep coming back at us, those who just don't like this way of singing?? why can't you just accept that some people just don't like it and they all have their own reasons for it?? why do you need to keep picking at us for that? i personally have tried to explain my point of view on this countless times! It seems you never even read any of those posts! I'm growing really very weary of this! If you don't understand why i and some others don't like those clean vocals, can't you just accept it as a fact and be done with it? Go talk about how awesome you think Andreas sounds on Universal, just leave the different opinions out of this, please?! is that too much to ask for?

i have just listened to Origin very careful again. I have heard only just very few moments where Mr.V. sings with Universal kind of voice. On White, where it just blends perfectly in the duet with Lazare. On Cynosure and Acclimation it is probably most audible. But even there, most often it's just sung high pitched, but not so pronouncedly nasal as on Universal. Further, the problem is when there're just a couple of moments here and there sung like that, and it's completely different story when the entire album is sung like that!! (I have said this also countless times now) The only moment on Universal where he doesn't sing like that are harsh vocals and Loci.

HERE i was trying to explain what i'm talking about. If you don't hear the difference, there's nothing i can do about that. I do hear it very well. I rest my case, shall we now move on to talking how awesome the vocals are and leave our reasons for disliking it alone. Please.

 

[Allfader]

@Elvina: u're taking this too seriously and personal. Their opinions are just that, like urs or mine. If Defiance loves the vocals and you don't, it's just ok. I don't think anyone tries to convince each other about their thoughts. U have the same right to say that Mr V's vocals were a letdown as the rest saying that it's his best effort to date.

If you ask me, I would suggest that Mr V could sing mostly on a baritone range and Lars does the high vocals, like on Future Reminiscence, but that's me.

 

[Elvina]

@Elvina: u're taking this too seriously and personal. Their opinions are just that, like urs or mine. If Defiance loves the vocals and you don't, it's just ok.

if it WAS like you say, there hadn't been any problem. It is exactly that he and others keep picking at us trying to understand why exactly is that that we dislike it. I just want to be left alone. I don't want to be called a whiner because i dislike something. I don't want having to explain myself countless times. I would have been more than happy if it was ok!! i mean i haven't called anybody deaf yet for not being able to hear what i hear. I just accept their liking it. Why cannot they just accept my disliking it.

 

[Azzor1911]

In that case I guess I'm somewhere inbetween. I don't dislike his vocals on the new album, but I definitely don't love them either, I just accept them for what they are.

Preferring VFTSG/Empiricism-era vocals is not the same as disliking

 

[Elvina]

In that case I guess I'm somewhere inbetween. I don't dislike his vocals on the new album, but I definitely don't love them either, I just accept them for what they are.

Preferring VFTSG/Empiricism-era vocals is not the same as disliking

exactly! and then again, they will call that "being stuck in the past", "not wanting to progress further", "expecting more of the same", "close minded" etc etc of the same shit. All assumptions without any ground about what they think must be wrong with us. I know i'm taking it waaaay too personal and serious, i'm just very weary of this shit happening on every message board of any band. Maybe i just need a break of this fan life... Gees, i haven't even ever wanted to be called a fan at all...